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00:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bpbfRw
00:02 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0c5c41f Robby Findler: add clause-name to define-metafunction, to be used with the...
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06:31 cnonim: hi all
06:34 cnonim: i can use 'match' for comparison with empty list?
06:38 soegaard: cnonim: yes
06:38 soegaard: rudybot: eval (regexp-match #rx"\\s" " ")
06:38 rudybot: soegaard: your sandbox is ready
06:38 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: #f
06:38 soegaard: I was expecting #t. What am I missing?
06:40 cnonim: rudybot: (match '(1 2 3) [null #t] [list #f])
06:40 rudybot: cnonim: your sandbox is ready
06:40 rudybot: cnonim: ; Value: #t
06:41 cnonim: rudybot: (match '(1 2 3) [(list) #t] [(list _ ...) #f])
06:41 rudybot: cnonim: ; Value: #f
06:41 cnonim: rudybot: (match null [(list) #t] [(list _ ...) #f])
06:41 rudybot: cnonim: ; Value: #t
06:43 soegaard: rudybot: eval (match (list) ['() "empty"] [_ "non-empty"])
06:43 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: "empty"
06:43 cnonim: eval (match (list 1 2 3) ['() "empty"] [_ "non-empty"])
06:44 cnonim: rudybot: eval (match (list 1 2 3) ['() "empty"] [_ "non-empty"])
06:44 rudybot: cnonim: ; Value: "non-empty"
06:44 cnonim: rudybot: eval (match (list 1 2 3) ['() "empty"] [list "non-empty"])
06:44 rudybot: cnonim: ; Value: "non-empty"
06:44 cnonim: txh
06:44 cnonim: thx
06:44 cnonim: why not work with null?
06:45 soegaard: null isn't defined as a matcher. You can it if you want to though.
06:46 soegaard: eval (regexp-match #px"\\s" " ")
06:46 soegaard: rudybot: eval (regexp-match #px"\\s" " ")
06:46 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: (" ")
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06:47 soegaard: Okay, I was missing that #rx and #px are different.
06:50 cnonim: when 'if' is prefered than 'cond'?
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07:59 soegaard: If there are two no nested let with. http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Style/style/Choosing_the_Right_Construct.html#(part._.Conditionals)
07:59 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/cfoef3d
07:59 soegaard: (more or less)
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08:32 cnonim: how i can append char to string?
08:32 cnonim: rudybot: (string-append (string #\h) "ello")
08:32 rudybot: cnonim: ; Value: "hello"
08:32 cnonim: or better solution?
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09:31 soegaard: rudybot: eval (~a #\h "hello")
09:31 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: "hhello"
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10:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xws4og
10:06 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0d17d2b Mike Sperber: Synch German string constants with latest.
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12:19 soegaard: rudybot: eval (for/list ([expr (in-port read-syntax (open-input-string "1 2 3"))]) expr)
12:19 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: ()
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12:19 soegaard: ?
12:20 soegaard: (for/list ([expr (in-port read (open-input-string "1 2 3"))]) expr)
12:20 mithos28: thats not what I expected
12:20 soegaard: me neither
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12:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5v-skg
12:21 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a50dfcc Robby Findler: add a test for drdr's consumption to keep the ryr models in sync
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12:21 soegaard: In DrRacket an input prompt/box appears in the interaction window.
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12:29 soegaard: If I use read it works as expected. The code of in-port looks fine. My guess is that read-syntax has a recursive call ignoring the port.
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12:29 mithos28: Does manually read syntaxing the input string work?
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12:32 soegaard: Arh! (read-syntax source-name in)
12:33 mithos28: lol
12:33 mithos28: Maybe source-name shouldn't be allowed to be an input-port
12:36 soegaard: Yeah. A warning would have been nice.
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12:40 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Vg6QUQ
12:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master fd9fce4 Jay McCarthy: Turn off DrDr testing
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15:29 rndnick4213: cool: #e#b0.1 thanks for that!
15:30 rndnick4213: if i understand correctly this is also in r7rs?
15:32 rndnick4213: hmm not so cool:
15:32 rndnick4213: > (number->string #b0.00000000000000001 2)
15:32 rndnick4213: number->string: inexact numbers can only be printed in base 10
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16:30 mithos28: anyone on have experience with redex?
16:32 mithos28: I'm trying to add a term to a sequence of terms, and don't see how to do it besides matching the sequence of terms to something with an ellipses and then doing a reconstruction
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16:39 samth: mithos28: basically, you always have to do that
16:40 mithos28: ok.
16:40 mithos28: samth: have you seen the thread on type-variables and expected types?
16:41 samth: mithos28: is it in a bug/pull request/mailing list message
16:41 samth: ?
16:41 mithos28: bug
16:42 mithos28: 13586
16:43 mithos28: The question being whether (: f (All (a) (a -> a))), should introduce 'a' as a type variable in the definition of f
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16:51 bremner: it helps defining local functions
16:52 mithos28: bremner: The question is not about if it is helpful or not, it certainly is. The issue is scope
16:52 mithos28: I believe that the All only scopes over its body, which means (All (a) (a -> a)) is equivalent to (All (b) (b -> b))
16:53 mithos28: which breaks if you try to introduce the variable as a type variable in the expression being typechecked
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17:00 samth: mithos28: oh, that one
17:00 samth: mithos28: asumu and i were talking about that yesterday
17:01 samth: i think the right solution is to not hash-cons All types
17:01 samth: that way the hash-table that is currently wrong about the name bound in the body would become right
17:01 samth: mithos28: on the larger question, i think the syntax/binding in the body is the right design
17:02 mithos28: So you are saying that expected types should introduce bindings in the expressions, or just with :
17:03 samth: just with :
17:03 samth: i think
17:03 samth: haven't thought as hard about the expected type issue
17:04 mithos28: it is currently impemented through expected types
17:04 mithos28: Also would (define-type ID (All (a) (a -> a))) (: f ID) introduce bindings, or is it a syntatic check on the type?
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17:15 mithos28: what is the easiest way to say that a bunch of symbols (ie with elipses) in redex are distinct. It looks like _! patterns don't work that way. I'm thinking a side condition will be the easiest.
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17:34 samth: mithos28: using the expected type seems reasonable enough
17:35 samth: mithos28: distinctness seems best checked with a side condition
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17:35 mithos28: samth: So you think with the ID example, the bindings should be introduced?
17:36 samth: mithos28: yes
17:36 samth: mithos28: the equivalence between those forms seems important to preserve
17:37 mithos28: I agree. I'm still thinking this is going to introduce interesting binding structure
17:38 samth: mithos28: i wonder what haskell does in that case
17:38 samth: b/c they introduce the binding when there's an annotation using ::
17:38 mithos28: In that if TR improves its inference algorithm, that changes the binding structure of the program
17:38 mithos28: samth: thats different
17:38 mithos28: because they don't have a binder in the ::
17:39 samth: i also don't know if they introduce bindings based on type annotations on expressions
17:39 samth: mithos28: they do -- you can write `forall` expliclitly in ghc
17:39 samth: and they infer it if you don't
17:39 mithos28: oh right
17:40 mithos28: But that is not based on expected types I believe, since they still do a global inference style algorithm
17:42 samth: certainly -- there's no concept of expected type in haskell
17:42 samth: but i don't know if (e :: forall a. [a]) binds `a` in `e`
17:43 mithos28: What about type ID = forall a. a -> a in haskell
17:43 mithos28: I doubt that introduces the binding
17:43 samth: mithos28: that's the other question i'm wondering about
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17:46 samth: mithos28: so, the ID one doesn't work in GHC
17:47 samth: it treats the `a` in the body as a new identifier
17:51 samth: mithos28: also doesn't work in GHC for expression annotation
17:52 samth: mithos28: wait, it doesn't work in GHC at all -- i thought it did
17:52 mithos28: samth: Did you enable ScopedTypeVariables?
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17:52 samth: mithos28: damn
17:53 mithos28: So explicit foralls work, but implicits do not for me
17:55 samth: mithos28: ok, it's a little weird
17:55 mithos28: expression annotations work for me with scoped type variables
17:55 samth: the following seem to work:
17:55 mithos28: also: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/other-type-extensions.html#scoped-type-variables
17:55 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6nxemt
17:55 samth: expression annotations with explicit forall
17:56 samth: references to the type signature with explicit forall
17:56 samth: references to the type signature with a type def with an explicit forall
17:57 samth: wait, not, not that last one
17:57 samth: was testing the wrong thing
17:59 mithos28: Ok so 7.12.7.2 and 7.12.7.3 are the relevant sections in the documentation, which say that they are syntactic
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18:05 samth: mithos28: the semantics outlined there seem reasonable, and would avoid your worry about inference changing scoping
18:06 mithos28: ok, I like those more than have the expected type introduce bindings
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18:06 mithos28: How to implement it is another question
18:06 mithos28: but that doesn't need to be solved today
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18:08 mithos28: Another question is (All (T …) (List (List T … T) (List T … T) … T)) a valid type?
18:09 mithos28: And does it correspond to (List (List Symbol Int) (List Symbol Int)) when instantiated with (inst <> Symbol Int) or (List (List Symbol Symbol) (List Int Int))?
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18:30 samth: mithos28: i think implementing it is pretty easy -- introduce the type var where type annotations/definition annotations are determined
18:30 mithos28: samth: no you can only introduce under a lambda, other wise you get unsound things
18:31 samth: mithos28: yes, it should be valid, and it should produce the first of your options
18:31 mithos28: samth: Ok, is it possible to represent the second one then?
18:32 samth: mithos28: i don't think so
18:32 samth: but i might be wrong
18:32 mithos28: (let ((cell : (Boxof (U a #f)) (box #f))) (lambda: ((x : a)) (begin0 (or (unbox cell) x) (set-box! cell a))))
18:33 mithos28: if we define f as that then (: f (All (a) (a -> a)), should not type check
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18:34 mithos28: So we need to delay the introduction of the type variables till we get to lambda
18:34 mithos28: Haskell avoids this by purity
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18:41 samth: mithos28: oh, i know you're write about type variable introduction -- i meant that i didn't think there was a way to represent the second type you described
18:41 samth: s/write/right/
18:41 mithos28: I know, I was commenting that i don't think it is easy
18:43 mithos28: Also in the formalism I am currently implementing I am making it so that there is a distinction between the Index Type Variable and the binding that List or -> introduces, thus allowing those types to be written
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18:44 samth: i don't understand what you mean by "the binding that List or -> introduces"
18:44 samth: you mean the binding that (List E ... T) introduces?
18:44 samth: where T is bound in E
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18:44 mithos28: Yes. I'm writing it as (ListDots T' T E)
18:45 samth: ok
18:45 samth: that makes sense
18:46 mithos28: This is my first time using redex for something more than trivial, and it is amazing
18:56 samth: mithos28: indeed -- i would not do new formalism research without it
18:58 mithos28: my current complaint with it is that redex decided that judgment was the better spelling (not judgement). And thus I keep on having unbound variables in my program
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19:06 samth: mithos28: english is like that, sadly
19:06 samth: inconsistent, i mean
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19:19 mithos28: I want a judgement form to rule over all of the ones below it, and if it matches then none of the other ones should even attempt matching, because other wise I will get infinite loops. Is there a way to do this besides side conditions?
19:22 samth: mithos28: i don't think so
19:22 samth: mithos28: in general, if you wouldn't write it that way in a paper, robby doesn't want you to write it that way in redex
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19:24 mithos28: Seems reasonable. I was definitely writing up a very imperative algorithm, which doesn't map well to paper.
19:24 mithos28: How would you write the subtyping algorithm (for recursive types) in a paper?
19:33 samth: mithos28: as a function
19:33 samth: basically like how it's written in subtype.rkt, actually
19:34 mithos28: by function you mean like define-metafunction?
19:34 samth: mithos28: yes
19:36 samth: mithos28: the chapter in pierce's TAPL has a good presentation of the algorithm in exactly that form, which was basically transcribed to create the original subtype.rkt
19:36 mithos28: thanks, that seems like exactly what I want. I was using judgements because it would do the magic of the search for me. But I think in this case I don't want the search.
19:37 mithos28: Right, I found that
19:38 mithos28: Hadn't really found a use for TAPL before, but I bought it knowing it was THE standard reference
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21:16 danking: Hey, how do I require/typed a method that returns an instance of a Class?
21:17 danking: Specifically, racket/draw and `make-object' for `bitmap%'
21:19 danking: Is there a way to use a "there exists" type? That way I can just give it a name and not worry about it?
21:22 danking: Ah, maybe I can use #:opaque
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21:42 danking: rudybot: (require typed/racket) (require racket/draw)
21:42 rudybot: danking: So as I understand it, processing is a 2D graphics framework right? I imagine you could implement all of it on top of the racket/draw API.
21:42 danking: rudybot: (require typed/racket racket/draw)
21:42 rudybot: danking: your sandbox is ready
21:42 rudybot: danking: Done.
21:43 danking: rudybot: (define: foo : (Class Number Number Any Any) (make-object bitmap% 1 1 #f #f))
21:43 rudybot: danking: error: Type Checker: Summary: 2 errors encountered
21:43 danking: So I get the error Type Checker: Unbound type name Class
21:43 danking: Any idea why?
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21:47 rudybot: None know the way of the TR compiler
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21:54 danking: stamourv: in Racket 5.3.2, if I put the submodule example under the `require/typed' docs into a file and run racket on that file, I get a "unknown module" "module name: #<unresolved-module-path 'UNTYPED>" any idea?
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22:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Dwi51Q
22:32 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 99ff0ad Robby Findler: check errors earlier in judgment-form...
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22:44 danking: I'm sort of convinced that type checking for for*/list: doesn't work.
22:44 mithos28: danking: That is very likely
22:45 mithos28: No one actually checked that they worked when the implemented them
22:46 mithos28: File a bug, and hopefully I (or someone else) will have time to get to it
22:48 danking: mithos28: It seems to be related to using #:when #t, because it happens even with for/list:, does that give any clue?
22:48 danking: I'll file bug.
22:48 mithos28: The clue was the for*, I have seen many problems with them before
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22:52 danking: mithos28: I filed the bug from DrRacket, I think. I clicked "save and close".
22:53 danking: Anyway it looks like 13253 already references it.
22:54 mithos28: Well that would be why it was familiar
22:57 danking: mithos28: :P
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