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14:44 deathgaze: Quick question: Is there a way to key in a repeating decimal to DrRacket's definition or REPL as a constant value?
14:44 (quit) basdirks: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
14:45 stamourv: rudybot: 1/3
14:45 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
14:45 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 1/3
14:45 stamourv: deathgaze: Not exactly what you asked for, but does that help?
14:46 deathgaze: Yesh, that'll probably get me there. ^_^
14:49 stamourv: deathgaze: If you want, you could probably write that as a reader extension.
14:49 dented42: how would I implement something like #%datum that is used to tag certain syntax objects that defaults to nothing but the user can create her own macro for to do whatever she wants? Not sure if I'm explain this very well but if I did it the naive way then whenever I generate my tag it would be bound to the default macro and hygiene would ensure that it is always bound to the default and not to the users override.
14:49 stamourv: Bonus points for using Unicode overbar as the syntax. :D
14:50 stamourv: dented42: Do you have an example?
14:50 deathgaze: stamourv: That sounds like a fun project! How would I get started working on a reader extension?
14:51 stamourv: dented42: My first thoughts would be to use either syntax parameters, or just use a generated name for the macro (as in `generate-temporary') that only you have access to.
14:51 stamourv: deathgaze: 1 sec, looking up the docs.
14:52 deathgaze: stamourv: Got it. Google ftw
14:52 deathgaze: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Reader_Extension.html
14:52 stamourv: deathgaze: You're faster than I am. :)
14:52 deathgaze: lol
14:52 stamourv: For your use case, I think that readtables may be the best approach.
14:53 dented42: well, #%datum. the reader inserts it into the syntax objects and by default  does something like (syntax-rules () [(#%datum . thing) (quote thing)]) but I can override later with something like (syntax-rules () [(#%datum . thing) (quote anne-datum)])
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14:54 stamourv: dented42: Right, so you want to define your own macro, and make it unshadowable?
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14:55 dented42: if unshadowable means what I think it means then yes
14:55 stamourv: I don't think you can have anything that's unshadowable.
14:55 stamourv: However,
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14:56 dented42: what does unshadowable mean? that it can be dynamically overridden?
14:56 stamourv: if you bind your macro transformer to a private identifier, in addition to the user-visible one, you know that the private id will always be bound to it, so you can use it without fear.
14:57 stamourv: rudybot: (let ([x 1]) (let ([x 2])) x)
14:57 rudybot: stamourv: error: #<undefined>:1:13: let: bad syntax (missing binding pairs or body) <NEWLINE>   in: (let ((x 2)))
14:57 stamourv: rudybot: (let ([x 1]) (let ([x 2]) x))
14:57 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 2
14:57 stamourv: dented42: That's shadowing.
14:57 dented42: oh, right
14:57 stamourv: I don't think there's a way to have an identifier that can't be shadowed.
14:58 stamourv: But if you expand into a fresh identifier (à la `generate-temporaries'), no user can type that id, so you can keep it for private use.
15:00 dented42: right
15:01 dented42: but how do I generate an identifier that the user can override, or rebind I guess could be a better word. It's my understanding that hygiene prevents that sort of thing from happening
15:02 dyoo: dented42: perhaps syntax parameters are what you're asking then?
15:02 asumu: dented42: what do you mean override?
15:02 jbclements: dented42: no, I think you're mistaken. Hygiene does not prevent users from overriding iden… I think a gist would be very useful here.
15:03 dyoo: dented42: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stxparam.html
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15:13 dented42: like this sort of thing http://paste.lisp.org/+2WZ8
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15:35 ozzloy: is there a built in function for substituting environment variables into bash-like strings?  eg "$PWD/${FOO}/asdf" -> "/home/ozzloy/project/foo-value/asdf"
15:35 ozzloy: ?
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16:00 dented42: syntax parameters seems very similar to what I want, however I would the user to be able to rebind it using a normal define-syntax instead. It's not a huge deal, but I'd like it to work that way if possible.
16:01 dented42: is the way that #%datum works implemented on the C side of racket?
16:02 jbclements: dented42: I think you might be able to change the meaning of #%datum by writing your own "language"; that is, a racket lang that's just like #lang racket but provides your binding for #%datum. Apologies if this isn't clear. I'm talking about a relatively small amount of code, and all in Racket.
16:04 dented42: jbclements: what you are describing is what I am trying to do, except I don't want to change the meaning of #%datum, I want to have my own similar 'tagging' macro, I just don't know how I should go about doing it.
16:05 jbclements: dented42: if I understand correctly, though, you want to grab all of the "literals", right?
16:05 dented42: no
16:05 jbclements: so… are you all right with having an explicit macro invocation?
16:05 dented42: I want to tag all of the lists that are defined with square brackets
16:06 dented42: I'm already doing a reader extension, I'm just not sure how to make the 'tagging' overridable by the user
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16:07 jbclements: urm… sorry, your paste made it look like you were trying to override #%datum.  Two things:
16:07 jbclements: 1) yes, I agree with everyone else that you should look at syntax parameters, and
16:07 jbclements: 2) you know that there's a bunch of machinery in place to deal with square-vs-round parens, right?
16:08 dented42: my paste is demonstrating the behavior of #%datum that I am trying to emulate.
16:10 dented42: 1) that's what I've been looking at and 2) I am aware of that, I am planning on using that existing machinery so that I don't end up duplicating a lot of effort.
16:14 jbclements: awesome! Sorry to have misunderstood you earlier. Let me know if you need me to confuse you any more :).
16:14 dented42: of course! and thank you for being so unenlightening ;)
16:18 ryan_c: dented42, it sounds like you might want to override #%app instead
16:19 dented42: why? I didn't think that I want to override any of them
16:20 ryan_c: If you made a reader extension do something to []s, then it would affect []s in positions other than expression position. For example, you might turn (cond [Q A]) into (cond [square-list Q A]), which is probably not what you want.
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16:21 ryan_c: When the racket expander sees a form like (a b c)---or [a b c]---where a is not an identifier bound to a syntactic form (primitive or macro), then it turns in into (#%app a b c) and expands that.
16:23 ryan_c: So if you want to do something to expressions like [a b c], then you should write your own #%app macro that checks for square brackets (there's a syntax property for that). If it had square brackets, then make a list; if it had parens, then just expand into racket's #%app.
16:23 dented42: no, I want to mark all occurances if []
16:23 dented42: s/if/of/
16:24 dented42: including conds, matches, lets, and whatnot
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16:28 dyoo: ozzloy: I'm looking at http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Manipulating_Paths.html#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._expand-user-path%29%29 now to see how it expands stuff like "~".
16:28 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/a522lq5
16:30 ryan_c: dented42, oh, okay, then changing the reader is probably your best bet
16:30 dented42: yes
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16:31 dyoo: ozzloy: hmm… sorry, I don't see anything built-in to parse and expand out environmental variables in strings.  It would be something you should be able to cook up, though.
16:32 dented42: I want to add #%brace, #%bracket, and #%paren tags (similar to #%app and #%datum) so that I can write multiple languages that distinguish between the different kind of delimiters without having to extend the reader each time, and just have different macros for #%brace etc.
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16:34 ozzloy: dyoo, cool.  thanks for checking.  i'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to write one.  just thought maybe that wheel had been invented already
16:35 samth: dented42: can you use the `paren-shape` syntax property for this?
16:36 dyoo: ozzloy: the beginnings of it would probably look something like https://gist.github.com/dyoo/5172930
16:37 dented42: samth: to implement the reader part, yes. What I am having trouble with is having a default transformer for #%brace and the others that a requiring module can override
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16:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/MC8coQ
16:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master ac93509 Robby Findler: sorry, didn't mean to push this...
16:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 551150e Robby Findler: tweaks to option contract usage
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16:38 samth: dented42: i don't think you can "override" things in the sense you're describing, but maybe i'm not understanding
16:39 dented42: then how is #%datum able to do what it does?
16:41 samth: #%datum is not wrapped around arguments to macros
16:41 samth: dented42: it only applies in expression positions (roughly)
16:42 dented42: oh
16:43 samth: for example:
16:43 samth: rudybot: (define-syntax (m stx) (syntax-case stx () [i (displayln (syntax-e i)) #'(void)]))
16:43 rudybot: samth: your sandbox is ready
16:43 rudybot: samth: error: #<undefined>:1:67: i: pattern variable cannot be used outside of a template <NEWLINE>   in: i
16:43 samth: rudybot: (define-syntax (m stx) (syntax-case stx () [i (displayln (syntax-e #'i)) #'(void)]))
16:43 rudybot: samth: Done.
16:43 samth: rudybot: (m "foo")
16:43 rudybot: samth: ; stdout: "(#<syntax:1:1 m> #<syntax:1:3 \"foo\">)\n"
16:44 samth: dented42: note that #%datum is not involved
16:52 dented42: ah
16:53 samth: dented42: in general, macros have total control over their arguments
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19:03 dented42: oh
19:03 dented42: hang on
19:04 dented42: this should use units, then everything fits together nicely. ^_^
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19:26 rich1: cool - i just used http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-csv/ for the 1st time - drracket auto downloaded and installed it
19:27 rich1: and it worked as a normal user (non-admin) on windows - great
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19:58 anonymou1: Hello everyone
19:59 anonymou1: I googled racket jobs
19:59 anonymou1: but I didn't find much interesting :( at least yet
20:00 anonymou1: Is it possible to get a good freelance Racket job?
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22:24 asumu: http://r-wos.org/blog/tacit-racket & http://r-wos.org/blog/tacit-racket-2
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