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00:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6g7xFg
00:52 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 17cb4fd Eric Dobson: Make vector-set! type correctly on complicated inputs....
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00:54 eli: greghendershott:
00:54 eli: greghendershott: ping
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00:55 greghendershott: eli: pong
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00:56 eli: greghendershott: Do you know about the web pages language?
00:56 eli: (I just saw you g+ post)
00:56 greghendershott: Yes, although it's been awhile since I used it.
00:57 eli: So you're not using that for the contents?
00:57 greghendershott: No, the source is all Markdown.
00:58 eli: Oy.
00:58 greghendershott: That's a fairly popular way these days to do blogging.
00:58 eli: FWIW, one of the things that I think it's very useful for is a markdown replacement.
00:58 eli: Since when markdown fails, it fails hard.
00:58 greghendershott: Anything heavy like Fear of Macros I did — and will keep doing — in Scribble.
00:58 eli: The web language is not scribble.
00:59 eli: (Kind of, originally "scribble" was the name of the syntax, now it's more the documentation system.)
00:59 eli: In any case, it's completely separate from the documentation system.
00:59 greghendershott: For a long tech document I like using Scribble the syntax and the system.
01:00 eli: And since it can be very lightweight, it's a robust replacement for markup that is almost thin enough to be considered markdown.
01:00 greghendershott: For a short blog post about kittens, I prefer Markdown.
01:00 greghendershott: For a short blog post with just a few code snippets and no interaction-style really needed, I probably still prefer Markdown.
01:00 greghendershott: But I'll take another look at it.
01:01 greghendershott: A lot of things in Racket, I've found, my first look I might be kind of meh, but 6 months later I have the experience and/or perspective to appreciate it and it clicks.
01:01 eli: Well, since you do a lot of markdown, and other web generation stuffs, it would be nice to hear what you think about it.
01:02 eli: But of course it would help if it was documented.
01:02 eli: It's really very simple -- the web sources in meta/web are much more complicated since it has code for the whole site.
01:02 greghendershott: What method could you use to document it, let me think ...
01:02 greghendershott: :)
01:02 eli: Well, I plan on plain documentation.
01:02 eli: At this point, I shoot as low as possible.
01:03 eli: The thing is that it was included in the normal distros for a long time now, yet it's not "public" just because I never got to write the documentation about it.
01:04 eli: greghendershott: BTW, something else that I wanted to look at is the output of your MD rendering backend.
01:04 greghendershott: OK, I'm realizing I was confused and haven't actually dug into what you're referring to.
01:04 greghendershott: What's the collect path?
01:04 eli: Are you doing any kind of line wrapping.
01:05 greghendershott: I'd have to reload my brain with that, but I'm essentially doing what the pre-existing plain text renderer was doing WRT stuff like that.
01:06 greghendershott: BTW the only reason I'm still awake is DST. I should back away from The Screen in a few minutes. :)
01:06 eli: ok
01:06 eli: In that case, I plan to see if I can easily wire the text wrapping code into it, so it will produce readable sources.
01:07 greghendershott: I never get to chat with you. It sucks that my body has this dependency on sleep, is all.
01:07 eli: ?
01:07 eli: s/?/:)/
01:07 eli: And re your question about using the html thing: http://tmp.barzilay.org/x.rkt is a simple example
01:07 eli: (Re sleeping, I kind of shift around the clock with no predetermined cycle...)
01:08 eli: (And I envy people who are so organized that they actually can feel the effect of a single hour change.)
01:08 greghendershott: Thanks. I have a tab open in the browser to look at with coffee tmr AM.
01:08 eli: Just keep it open, in case it disappears...
01:09 greghendershott: Oh I'm used to 20 hour travel and 14 hour jet lag going to Japan 3-4 times a year.
01:09 greghendershott: I just don't have to do that anymore.
01:09 eli: :)
01:09 greghendershott: \o/
01:09 eli: Whenever I go to/from Israel, I never have any jetlag.
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01:09 eli: Maybe Japan is far enough to do it.
01:10 greghendershott: I think going to Europe, wake up 5-6 hours earlier, is tougher (for me) than Japan.
01:10 greghendershott: ~12 hours is earlier or later, whichever you want to look at it.
01:10 greghendershott: Meal times kinda line up, swap bfast for dinner, etc.
01:10 eli never got to the more-east-than-israel parts
01:10 greghendershott: But still, it's rough.
01:11 greghendershott: OK well I should punch out. Thx again for the link.
01:11 eli: No problems, and tell me if you have any questions...
01:12 greghendershott: Will do, thanks. TTYL.
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01:17 asumu: eli: Hmm, I should use this for my CCIS home page rather than my ad-hoc setup.
01:18 eli: asumu: In that case please send me nag messages until I document the thing...
01:20 eli: asumu: BTW, besides the simple html output, it has one more big feature which is a "resource" -- something that you create with a renderer to create the file, and you get a function that refers to it which knows the path to it from other resources.
01:21 eli: And that makes it easy to have a whole set of pages created.
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02:15 eli: mithos28: Is that for my bug?
02:16 mithos28: eli: Sorta, it was intended to be. But your bug actually is something else
02:16 eli: OK,
02:16 eli: As for my question -- is `List' supposed to still work as a type?
02:16 mithos28: It shouldn't
02:17 eli: Why?
02:17 mithos28: What type do you think it should be?
02:17 mithos28: (Listof Any)
02:17 mithos28: ?
02:17 eli: Yes, it was always the same as that.
02:17 mithos28: Not currently.
02:17 eli: If that's gone then I have a pile of lecture notes + code that need to be revised.
02:18 mithos28: Ok, my statement is based off the implementation being correct
02:18 eli: Ah, ok.
02:20 eli: mithos28: Actually, maybe it's not a problem, I don't see any obvious uses in my notes -- but I'm 98% sure that it used to stand for a (Listof Any)
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02:21 mithos28: I think it would be confusing as that because its hard to understand how to parse (List Number Symbol) then
02:22 mithos28: But I don't really care that much about which way it goes
02:22 eli: To clarify, I don't care much either -- I was just asking because of my class notes.
02:22 eli: But if it changed, then my guess is that there are people who would care...
02:23 mithos28: If you have old versions of racket lying around you could test it
02:23 mithos28: I don't though
02:23 eli: I have 5.3.1, and it's not doing that there.
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02:24 eli: (Surprising that I didn't run into this earlier.)
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03:06 kvda: Hi, I'm having trouble getting lists in lists working. '(10 10 10 (10)) should be ok right?
03:09 mithos28: rudybot: '(10 10 10 (10))
03:09 rudybot: mithos28: your typed/racket sandbox is ready
03:09 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: (10 10 10 (10))
03:09 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "- : (Listof (U Positive-Byte (List Positive-Byte))) [generalized from (List Positive-Byte Positive-Byte Positive-Byte (List Positive-Byte))]\n"
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03:18 kvda: hm
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03:19 kvda: rudybot
03:19 kvda: oops
03:20 kvda: rudybot: '(10 '(10 '(test)))
03:20 rudybot: kvda: your sandbox is ready
03:20 rudybot: kvda: ; Value: (10 (quote (10 (quote (test)))))
03:20 kvda: rudybot: '(10 (10 (test)))
03:20 rudybot: kvda: ; Value: (10 (10 (test)))
03:22 kvda: well that all seems legit
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03:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kWbC-A
03:26 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4683be8 Eric Dobson: Add checks for failing to parse types.
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07:44 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- RacketCon videos/slides: http://con.racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
07:44 (names) -: gabot bjz rohni basdirks errstr bitonic BakaKuna stchang stchang_ jrslepak stamourv` yacks hkBst mceier asvil Nisstyre arbn karswell` casion arkx em walter|r cored mye eli sirdancealot ASau eikonos ivan` arkeet tobih Shambles_ sethalves nyuszika7h mattmight ivan\ jschuster SeanTAllen noam merijn gazoombo lusory jaimef majoh samth_away dented42 asumu mario-goulart sizz wsun arrdem chandler Shozan dsantiago pono cipher acarrico snorble_ Twey JStoker whoops
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10:27 nyuszika7h: hi, how can I prevent the Racket REPL from capturing input when using (system "nano") for example?
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10:32 didi: nyuszika7h: What do you mean?
10:32 nyuszika7h: Ctrl-X for example doesn't do anytning
10:32 nyuszika7h: * anything
10:34 didi: nyuszika7h: oic
10:34 didi: nyuszika7h: Are you running it with readline?
10:35 nyuszika7h: yes
10:35 didi: nyuszika7h: That's it.
10:35 nyuszika7h: ah
10:35 nyuszika7h: is there a way to "unload" xrepl then reloait?
10:36 nyuszika7h: * relod it
10:36 nyuszika7h: * reload
10:36 didi: I'm not familiar with xrepl, sorry.
10:36 nyuszika7h: that means there is no "standard" way to "unload" things?
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10:52 greghendershott: nyuszika7h: I'm not sure XREPL could unload itself. Anyway, currently it can't.
10:53 nyuszika7h: ok
10:53 greghendershott: Have you tried XREPL's ,sh command to run Nano — would that work for you?
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13:17 greghendershott: I guess the official guideline for PLT source is parameters should be `current-XYZ`
13:18 greghendershott: Anyone have a briefer naming convention they like to use for personal projects?
13:19 didi: greghendershott: I don't use any special prefix for parameters.
13:22 greghendershott: didi: Sometimes I haven't, either. But I'm working on something where I have a dozen of the puppies and it would be nice to prefix them with something.
13:22 mithos28: greghendershott: How about current-? :P
13:23 greghendershott: Hmm actually what they also have in common is they'll be read from a config file. Maybe I should use some prefix like cfg-.
13:23 greghendershott: Or somewhat barftastically, $
13:23 greghendershott: mithos28: Heh. That's the status quo. I already paid my dues typing them, so I'm not being lazy. :)
13:24 greghendershott: *sometimes gets a little too OCD about details like this, and should resume real work*
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15:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/UVmxcg
15:54 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6ce8f20 Robby Findler: document c:x;r;c
15:54 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a00bcfd Robby Findler: add various dots to tex-table and thus drracket keyboard shortcuts
15:54 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8adbd7e Robby Findler: Adjusted a literal scribble tabular to use 2d
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16:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5-Qu5A
16:05 RacketCommitBot: racket/master cbd8f07 Robby Findler: forgot to add tabular.rkt
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16:35 sstrickl: stamourv: doing another round of tests, after cleaning up that commit a little, and then I'll push it.
16:36 stamourv: Great, thanks!
16:36 sstrickl: No problem... sorry, I've been sitting on that since Asumu's original email to dev, because I thought I might hear back from Matthew about it first
16:36 stamourv: That's reasonable.
16:37 sstrickl: Also, looking at the test suite for kw.rkt, it looks like it _does_ break some of it, hmm.
16:37 stamourv: In fact, if Christos can work around it temporarily on his end, it may be better to wait until Matthew replies.
16:37 sstrickl: (It's just error conditions that end up reporting something I expect is not the expected error)
16:37 stamourv: Odd.
16:37 sstrickl: well, they're "identifier used out of context" errors, which means the reordering probably does break things.
16:37 stamourv: Bleh.
16:38 stamourv: So, at a high-level, what's your fix?
16:38 stamourv: (And what's the cause of the problem? I only know the symptoms.)
16:38 sstrickl: I'll clean up the patch, and send the github url of the changed commit in an email to Matthew, Asumu, and you and Christos so that once he responds, you'll know.
16:39 sstrickl: Basically, the changes I made to define/contract to make it more efficient requires adding the definitions for the contract and external id right after the internal id is created.
16:39 sstrickl: Originally, I was doing something stupid, which is to create the same type of definition as was found, instead of just using define-values for those extra definitions.
16:39 sstrickl: new-define from kw.rkt defines the identifier as syntax, which expands into some uses of some locally defined things
16:40 asumu: greghendershott: your frog thing looks neat, do you have an example website set up with it?
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16:40 sstrickl: but even if I fix the define-values issue, the problem is that defining the external id uses the internal id, and inserts that definition right after that define-syntax that new-define does, which is before the definitions _that_ depends on
16:40 greghendershott: asumu: Yes, I made it to make my own blog (I wanted to switch away from using Blogger).
16:41 greghendershott: So http://www.greghendershott.com/index.html
16:41 stamourv: sstrickl: I think I may have an alternative solution.
16:41 asumu: greghendershott: nice!
16:41 sstrickl: and there's no good way to say "well, put them after the begin it expands into", because waiting until the end of the current begin to introduce the new identifiers runs into a problem because all things are in a begin, due to the splicing syntax parameterization of the blame info
16:42 sstrickl: (so you end up breaking, say, (with-contract ([x number?]) (define x 3) (set! x 4))
16:42 stamourv: Yeah, I understand that.
16:42 stamourv: Here's the idea:
16:42 sstrickl: stamourv: Okay
16:42 stamourv: So, basically, the problem is with `define' defining functions that take kw args in a contract region (that adds contracts to the function).
16:43 stamourv: So, what about, before doing the local expand, you just look for `define', and then call `normalize-define' or whatever it's called, then `local-expand'.
16:43 stamourv: Would that work?
16:43 sstrickl: ... that seems to be hardcoding it in the other direction
16:44 sstrickl: What about things that expand into defines without being literally (define ...)?
16:44 sstrickl: (like struct definitions)
16:44 stamourv: Couldn't you get `local-expand' to stop on `define'? I think it can do that.
16:45 sstrickl: Well, yeah, but... hmm.
16:45 sstrickl: Okay, I'll see about trying it out.
16:45 stamourv: It's a hacky fix, though, I agree.
16:45 sstrickl: Yeah, I'm not sure there's a non-hacky fix to it, really.
16:46 stamourv: Another thing I've been thinking about: seems like a lot of the complexity here comes from the fact that `define/contract' expands into `with-contract'.
16:47 stamourv: `define/contract' has a lot more structure than `with-contract'. For instance, the fix to use `normalize-define' would be trivial there, and you also wouldn't need to crawl the expansion to figure out where to add the initial contracts, you can just expand into `(define f (contract body ...))'.
16:47 sstrickl: Yes, but I'd rather have things that work across both, instead of having define/contract be okay, since we know it's just one definition, and with-contract broken on things like this.
16:47 sstrickl: it already uses normalize-define anyway.
16:47 sstrickl: I believe, maybe it doesn't, but I think it does.
16:48 stamourv: Agreed, fixing the general case is better, but it looks like it's causing a lot of trouble.
16:48 stamourv: I think it does, but the point is that since we know it's just a definition, it's trivial to figure out where the initial contract goes.
16:48 sstrickl: Well, let me see about some stuff, and then worst case I'll fall back onto that if needed.
16:49 stamourv: With the right abstractions, we should be able to avoid duplicating code between `define/contract' and `with-contract'.
16:49 sstrickl: Yeah, that's the abstraction I need, really.. something that marks some begin, or some kind of block, as "an expansion of a define for this/these identifiers"
16:50 (quit) Aune: Quit: Hath Deprated
16:50 sstrickl: I could look for that, then just use that information to put things in the right place.
16:53 nyuszika7h: hi, how can I get the first or second value from this?
16:54 nyuszika7h: -> (display (get-pure-port/headers (string->url "http://cadoth.net")))
16:54 nyuszika7h: ; context expected 1 value, received 2 values: #<input-port:pipe> "Date: Tue,
16:54 sstrickl: Also, tests for errors should not catch all errors and report them as successes, but look for the specific one (if possible).
16:54 sstrickl: Though with syntax errors, that's difficult since they're all the same kind of error, I guess, with just different text.
16:54 stamourv: rudybot: doc let-values
16:54 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/let.html#(form._((quote._~23~25kernel)._let-values))
16:55 stamourv: rudybot: doc define-values
16:55 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/define.html#(form._((quote._~23~25kernel)._define-values))
16:55 stamourv: nyuszika7h: ^
16:55 nyuszika7h: ok, thanks
16:55 stamourv: sstrickl: Agreed.
16:55 stamourv: The TR failure tests do that pretty well, IIRC.
16:55 sstrickl: stamourv: Yeah, y'all do a good job of it. :)
16:56 stamourv: Well, we spent a lot of time on these error messages, so we want to make sure they work right!
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17:01 nyuszika7h: this seems to work: -> (car (cdr (let-values ([(port headers) (get-pure-port/headers (string->url "http://cadoth.net"))]) (list port headers))))
17:02 stamourv: You could also just do:
17:02 stamourv: (let-values ([(port headers) (get-pure-port/headers (string->url "http://cadoth.net"))]) headers)
17:02 nyuszika7h: ah nice, thanks
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17:15 sstrickl: stamourv: so I'm using (cons #'define (kernel-form-identifier-list)) as my stop list (the module in question is written in racket/base, so should be the right define), but it doesn't seem to be stopping, hmm.
17:21 stamourv: Odd.
17:22 stamourv: I've never used stop-lists, so I don't know.
17:22 stamourv: ISTR a mailing list conversation a while back about somebody (jonrafkind, IIRC) asking how they worked.
17:23 jonrafkind: that thread, iirc, was about why local-expand doesn't expand past let forms
17:23 jonrafkind: (or any binding form in general)
17:23 stamourv: Ah, ok, so maybe not related.
17:23 stamourv: jonrafkind: Do you know how `local-expand''s stop-ids work?
17:24 jonrafkind: well it means local-expand wont expand those forms when it reaches them
17:24 jonrafkind: but also by using stop-ids you have to keep calling local-expand as long as the outer form is a macro
17:25 sstrickl: stamourv: works in a small test of mine, so I'm not sure
17:25 jonrafkind: normal use of local-expand keeps expanding as long as the outer form is a macro
17:25 sstrickl: jonrafkind: yeah, but in my case it doesn't seem to be respecting something I've added to the stop-list, which is what confuses me
17:25 jonrafkind: hm
17:25 jonrafkind: lexical context..?
17:25 sstrickl: though it works in a small test-case I just wrote
17:25 sstrickl: Well, I'm in racket/base, so I should be getting the right define I want to stop on when I do #'define
17:26 jonrafkind: these things are hard to debug :(
17:26 sstrickl: Yeah :(
17:26 (quit) basdirks: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
17:26 sstrickl: let me add some debugging printfs :P
17:28 sstrickl: Oh... I think I know what's happening.
17:29 sstrickl: The splicing-syntax-parameterize is expanding things before I get to it.  Ugh.
17:29 sstrickl: At least I think that's what's going on.
17:31 sstrickl: Yeah, it's expanding it before I even get to it.
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17:50 nyuszika7h: hi, any idea why this isn't working? http://ix.io/4I2/scheme
17:50 nyuszika7h: err, paste fail, of course I'm calling rcurl with the () around it
17:51 jbclements: nyuszika7h: looks like you have extra brackets around your "else" cases?
17:51 nyuszika7h: they're just to allow multiple commands
17:52 jbclements: no, that's not legal:
17:52 jbclements: rudybot: (+ 3 4)
17:52 rudybot: jbclements: your sandbox is ready
17:52 rudybot: jbclements: ; Value: 7
17:52 jbclements: rudybot: [(+ 3 4)]
17:52 rudybot: jbclements: error: application: not a procedure; <NEWLINE>  expected a procedure that can be applied to arguments <NEWLINE>   given: 7 <NEWLINE>   arguments...: [none]
17:52 jbclements: nyuszika7h: see what I mean?
17:53 nyuszika7h: since when
17:53 nyuszika7h: but ok
17:53 jbclements: since … the 1950s! I'm sorry, I don't mean to be flip, but this goes way way back.
17:54 nyuszika7h: rudybot: (if (= 1 2) [(displayln "test 1") (displayln "test 2")] [(displayln "test 3") (displayln "test 4")])
17:54 rudybot: nyuszika7h: your sandbox is ready
17:54 rudybot: nyuszika7h: error: application: not a procedure; <NEWLINE>  expected a procedure that can be applied to arguments <NEWLINE>   given: #<void> <NEWLINE>   arguments...: <NEWLINE>    #<void>
17:54 nyuszika7h: that's weird, worked last time I tried, but k
17:55 nyuszika7h: how should I provide multiple commands then?
17:55 jbclements: you can do it using "begin":
17:55 jbclements: rudybot: [begin (+ 3 4) (+ 5 6)]
17:55 rudybot: jbclements: ; Value: 11
17:56 jbclements: you may be thinking of 'cond' or 'define', where you can have multiple expressions; essentially, an implicit 'begin':
17:56 jbclements: rudybot: (cond [(< 3 4) (display "a") (display "b")])
17:56 rudybot: jbclements: ; stdout: "ab"
17:56 nyuszika7h: ah, thanks
17:57 jbclements: np, hope I wasn't rude.
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18:13 sstrickl: stamourv: okay, think I have it.
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18:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/dOnNhQ
18:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 50c2c54 Stevie Strickland: Fix with-contract when the contracted identifier is defined as syntax.
18:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6aab2f1 Stevie Strickland: Look for defines and handle them directly....
18:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4119fab Stevie Strickland: Tests for define/contract and keyword interaction.
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20:49 mcpherrin: Is there a nice way to take an arbitrary `struct` and apply a function to each of the members of the struct?
20:49 mcpherrin: Or .. really, any way to not have to explicitly name each field
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20:57 bremner: mcpherrin: there's struct->list
20:58 bremner: or struct->vector
20:58 mcpherrin: bremner: Oh, fantastic.  I didn't notice it since it's in unstable/struct.  Thanks :)
20:59 bremner: mcpherrin: no trouble.
20:59 mcpherrin: This shortens my program by like 100 lines of code :P
20:59 mcpherrin: (100 lines of copypasta garbage :P)
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21:43 m4burns: mcpherrin: fancy seeing you here
21:44 mcpherrin: m4burns: hello burnsie.
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22:15 kvda: rudybot load up celery man please
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