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00:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/s5c-bQ
00:09 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 2067534 Robby Findler: add #:extra-srclocs argument to raise-read-error...
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00:34 mithos28: asumu: you are the one working on typing control in TR right
00:43 asumu: mithos28: yes.
00:44 mithos28: I'm trying to make TR work with contracts again, and it seems that Prompt-Tags handler field was specified as Function?
00:45 mithos28: even though it could be a type variable.
00:45 mithos28: I'm not sure how much that assumption permeated the actual code
00:49 asumu: Hmm, yeah, actually the documentation example there is wrong too. It's specified as a Function to make the type easier to write down.
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00:53 asumu: Right, that can't actually work since there's constraint on the type variable in make-continuation-prompt-tag's type.
00:54 asumu: *there's no constraint
00:56 asumu: It shouldn't actually cause any unsoundness since uses of abort-current-continuation shouldn't type-check unless it actually is a function type.
00:57 asumu: And contract generation won't work either.
00:57 asumu: But that should be fixed somehow.
00:59 ozzloy: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/with-syntax.html the sidebar mentions "...+" used in "this example" but that's the only place that "...+" shows up.  should it just read "..." instead of "...+"?
01:00 mithos28: ozzloy: No
01:00 mithos28: …+ means at least one
01:00 mithos28: see …+ in syntax parse for an example
01:06 ozzloy: mithos28, i read that, but "...+" doesn't actually show up in the example
01:07 ozzloy: just in the sidebar that's supposed to be a note about the example
01:07 mithos28: the side bar is in meta langage
01:07 ozzloy: oooh
01:08 mithos28: it is talking about (define-syntax (foo x) as the same as (define-syntax foo (lambda (x)
01:08 ozzloy: got it
01:08 ozzloy: that's why i check in here
01:08 ozzloy: i'm glad i didn't make a pull request out of that
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03:12 `quote`: racketcon?
03:15 jonrafkind: disneyworld?
03:15 `quote`: ah it was in massachusetts
03:20 `quote`: what's up racketeers
03:22 jonrafkind: pizza
03:27 `quote`: super cool
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03:40 ozzloy: sup `quote`
03:40 ozzloy: quasiquote'quasiquote
03:42 `quote`: lol
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04:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/rW1f8g
04:12 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a3a4712 Eli Barzilay: Remove "internet-enabled" dmg creation....
04:12 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b5618b7 Eli Barzilay: Do the conventional DMG layout....
04:12 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a2207e6 Eli Barzilay: Make only binary distributions use laid-out DMGs....
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04:33 `quote`: any racket-from-C examples?
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08:41 shriphani__: Hi, I have a .rkt file in #lang at-exp racket and I have a few definitions there (I want something like a mini-scribble for myself). How do I go about using this lang in other files? I am not sure what to look for in the docs.
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08:43 bremner: shriphani__: modules, require and provide, I guess
08:44 shriphani__: bremner: any way I could use it as #lang scrbl-mini in another file?
08:44 asumu: shriphani__: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/hash-languages.html
08:44 bremner: sure, it just needs to be a file "scrbl-mini" in the right place, and provide the right things.
08:44 bremner: err, scrbl-mini.rkt
08:45 asumu: Where the "right things" is either a lang directory or a lang submodule in the main module of the collection.
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08:47 shriphani__: asumu: and just having these definitions is sufficient information ?
08:49 asumu: shriphani__: yes, here's a really simple one: https://github.com/takikawa/racket-clojure/blob/master/lang/reader.rkt
08:50 asumu: (sorry, I meant a "reader" submodule)
08:54 bremner: hmm. dyoo should hang out here more so we could tell him how cool his stuff is.
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09:09 asumu: bremner: Agreed. :)
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12:26 bremner: hrm. geiser seems to choke on "#lang ragg" files because there is no "main.rkt" file. Who is at fault here, I'm guessing geiser is making a wrong assumption?
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12:27 mithos28: geiser. main.rkt is used if you use (require ragg)
12:27 mithos28: #lang ragg uses ragg/lang/reader
12:28 bremner: ook. Now how do I report geiser bugs again ...
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12:47 asumu: Hmm, I dislike it when emacs sometimes goes into infinite loops.
12:47 offby1: you do?
12:47 offby1: you're fussy
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12:51 bremner: as long as the infinite loops finish quickly, I don't mind so much
12:52 offby1: The lengthy, we complete right away; the infinite takes a little longer
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12:55 bremner: is there an xrepl.el kicking about? or some glue to use xrepl conveniently from emacs?
12:57 Sgeo: xrepl?
12:57 bremner: http://docs.racket-lang.org/xrepl/index.html
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13:56 mithos28: Is there an easy way to see where a binding is used across many different files?
13:56 mithos28: Ignoring people failing to add the disapeared binding annotation
13:58 offby1: git-grep :)
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14:36 Sgeo: disappeared bindings?
15:10 mithos28: Sgeo: For programs where the binding is important but not in the residual (expanded) program
15:11 mithos28: i.e. else when used with cond
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17:40 mye: I'm trying out ragg and would like to say at least one, at most three of a token make a valid rule, like:
17:40 mye: DIGIT | DIGIT DIGIT | DIGIT DIGIT DIGIT
17:41 mye: one, or two, or three digits. Is there something I'm missing and I can express this with + and * ?
17:42 mithos28: No you cannot represent it with + and *. I don't know ragg yet, but DIGIT DIGIT? DIGIT? might work
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17:45 mithos28: It looks like ? doesn't exist in ragg
17:45 mithos28: What is wrong with DIGIT | DIGIT DIGIT | DIGIT DIGIT DIGIT
17:45 mye: mithos28: I'm trying to transcribe the syslog ABNF and it has stuff like 1*255PRINTUSASCII which means at least one and at most 255
17:45 mithos28: Oh
17:48 mithos28: I would file a bug/feature request for bounded repitition
17:48 mye: Looking through the parser I wrote in parser-tools/yacc I don't remember how to express it there either
17:48 mithos28: mye: it is not easy
17:49 mithos28: you need to explicitily list out the states
17:51 mye: I'll do that then, for now. Thx :-)
17:54 bremner: mye: is there some reason you're not going this in the lexer? or is it just an example?
17:54 bremner: parser-utils/lex does support bounded repetition, of course
17:55 mye: bremner: yeah I'm still juggling stuff between the lexer and the parser
17:56 mye: never quite obvious from the start what  to put where :-/
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19:00 mithos28: dyoo: ping
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19:11 dsevilla: guys, any documentation, examples, etc., on lazy racket?
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19:16 dca: i second taht question!
19:17 mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/lazy/index.html?q=lazy
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19:23 dsevilla: dca: the one on lazy racket?
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19:24 dsevilla: mithos28: yeah, a small document without any example :(
19:25 mithos28: dsevilla: Have you tried using it?
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19:25 dsevilla: mithos28: er no, don't know where to start
19:26 mithos28: from the document: To write lazy code, simply use lazy as your module’s language:
19:26 mithos28: #lang lazy
19:26 mithos28: ... lazy code here...
19:26 dsevilla: mithos28: how do I do a lazy list that holds natural numbers?
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19:26 mithos28: dsevilla: (list 1 2 3 4)
19:26 dsevilla: mithos28: mmm... that list holds 4 natural numbers, not the infinite set (lazily)
19:27 bremner: in this case the missing word "the" was important ;)
19:27 mithos28: (define (nats x) (cons x (nats (add1 x))))
19:27 mithos28: (nats 0)
19:27 mithos28: rudybot: init lazy
19:27 rudybot: mithos28: your lazy sandbox is ready
19:27 mithos28: rudybot: (define (nats x) (cons x (nats (add1 x))))
19:27 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
19:28 mithos28: rudybot: (define naturals (nats 0))
19:28 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
19:28 mithos28: rudybot: (take naturals 5)
19:28 rudybot: mithos28: error: take: expects type <non-negative exact integer> as 1st argument, given: '(0 . #<promise:temp2>); other arguments were: 5
19:28 mithos28: rudybot: (take 5 naturals)
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19:28 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: (0 . #<promise:...llects/lazy/lazy.rkt:672:43>)
19:28 mithos28: rudybot: (!! (take 5 naturals))
19:28 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4)
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19:29 dsevilla: mithos28: wow, nice, really thanks. I wonder why there isn't any web page with such simple examples...
19:29 dca: why one needs to force the computation to obtain the result?
19:29 dca: (i am about that !! function)
19:29 mithos28: dca: Otherwise it wouldn't do the computation
19:29 dca: hm
19:30 dsevilla: dca: yeah, if everything is lazy, even the result of some computation is lazily computed, unless you force it
19:30 dca: but repl needs it
19:30 mithos28: dsevilla: Because it just works I assume
19:30 dsevilla: mithos28: yeah, maybe, and examples of programs using it?
19:31 dca: i mean if we take that haskell language they call, you don't need to force to make "take 5 [1..]", right?
19:31 mithos28: dsevilla: File a bug if you want examples
19:31 mithos28: dca: You don't need to that either in racekt
19:31 dsevilla: mithos28: I was just curious. I'm new to racket and it would be easy to have some examples where to start
19:32 mithos28: dca: you do need to force it to print it
19:32 dsevilla: it is surprising that after writing such a library as lazy or typed racket, there are so little examples in the docs
19:32 dca: dsevilla: you could start some wiki page, share the link with tha mailing list and ask people to fill in
19:33 mithos28: dsevilla: Cool, I'm just saying that about half the devs never come on IRC. So bugs and mailing lists are more likely to get a thourough response by people who maintain the feature
19:33 dsevilla: well, in fact typed racket has several examples in the docs
19:33 dsevilla: mithos28: I see. Seems too intrussive to file a bug report for that, though
19:33 mithos28: dsevilla: TR is also used a lot more than lazy racket
19:34 dca: mithos28: so it's how lazy repl works, right? doesn't force the result by default?
19:34 mithos28: dsevilla: And you wonder why there are no examples...
19:34 mithos28: dca: I have no idea, other than that one attempt that you saw with rudybot minutes ago
19:35 mithos28: I'm just extrapolationg
19:35 dsevilla: mithos28: you mean many people would find that intrusive, right?
19:35 dsevilla: to file a bug report asking for examples
19:36 mithos28: No. You see an issue with the docs, and you don't report it.
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19:36 dsevilla: mithos28: mmm... strictly speaking it is not an issue
19:36 dsevilla: at least as I see it. Examples are not mandatory. You've know how to use it without them
19:37 dsevilla: Maybe every people with enough knowledge of racket will know without those examples
19:37 asumu: dsevilla: even better would be a pull request. :)
19:37 mithos28: dsevilla: Neither are good error messages, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to have them
19:38 dsevilla: asumu: I would like to, but I'm asking for examples I don't have. i cannot do a pull request :)
19:38 asumu: Well, for most things you can directly transcribe, say, Haskell examples.
19:38 dsevilla: mithos28: OK, I'll file it. You have to know, as I do know, that different projects have different policies for reports
19:38 asumu: But yes, a bug report is fine.
19:38 dsevilla: in some projects that request of adding examples to the documentation would be seen as a bad bug report, because there's no bug
19:39 mithos28: dsevilla: Well on the bug form, you can select documentation bug or feature request
19:39 dsevilla: mithos28: ah, OK, I see, nice to know, then
19:39 mithos28: which would be better classifications, but I doubt that who ever fixes it will care that you filed it in the right bin
19:40 dsevilla: the idea came to me after a question in stackoverflow
19:40 mithos28: Also the user is always right, if something isn't clear to them it is the fault of the tool
19:40 dsevilla: some person was asking the most efficient way of creating a list with natural numbers
19:40 dsevilla: I rapidly thought of some kind of laziness, that racket should have
19:40 dsevilla: and that was right, it is there, but without any example for me to test
19:41 dsevilla: is there also a way to say a function would be lazily evaluated, but just that function?
19:41 dsevilla: having to change the complete language seems like an overkill
19:42 mithos28: dsevilla: No. Laziness doesn't work that way
19:42 mithos28: you can use promises, but thats not lazy in the same way as you expect
19:42 mithos28: you could use streams
19:42 mithos28: but those aren't lists
19:43 dsevilla: mithos28: I see, I was just curious.
19:43 dsevilla: I'm know Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp, but not Scheme/Racket
19:43 dsevilla: there are enough differences to shock me, so I still have to study it
19:44 (quit) mye: Quit: mye
19:48 dsevilla: one last question
19:48 dsevilla: I kind of remember having seen/heard of a prolog-like implementation in racket
19:48 dsevilla: not minikanren
19:48 mithos28: dsevilla: racklog and datalog
19:49 dsevilla: mithos28: ah, thanks, are they available as langs in stock racket?
19:49 mithos28: yep
19:49 dsevilla: oh, nice
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19:53 dsevilla: mmm... when I execute (!! (take 5 naturals)) in a file, it says:
19:53 dsevilla: take: not a proper list: 1
19:53 bartbes: I'd like to note that I very much prefer lazy racket to not force anything by default, when run on the repl
19:53 bartbes: because when I inspect my code, I want to see the actual (lazy) output
19:53 mithos28: dsevilla: what is naturals?
19:53 dsevilla: the same definition we did
19:54 dsevilla: (define naturals (nats 0))
19:54 dsevilla: 
19:54 bartbes: also, I can only like a language as lazy as me
19:54 dsevilla: bartbes :)
19:54 mithos28: what is your definition of nats?
19:55 mithos28: I think it is wrong
19:55 dsevilla: (define (nats n) (cons n (add1 n)))
19:55 mithos28: yeah
19:55 mithos28: that was not my definition
19:55 dsevilla: oh, I see
19:55 dsevilla: sorry
19:55 mithos28: no problem
19:55 bartbes: btw, a word of warning about the *logs, I've not found out a way to interact with files written in them, without using that language
19:56 bartbes: that is, if I try to load them from another, racket, file, I can't get the data out
19:56 bartbes: I might be missing something, though
19:56 dsevilla: bartbes: hope i could help you :)
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