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00:25 sw2wolf: offby1: sorry, i just come back. rudybot is VERY convenient when there is no racket REPL on hand.
00:26 mithos28: sw2wolf: do you need a full racket repl or would the student languages work for you?
00:27 mithos28: http://www.wescheme.org/openEditor
00:27 sw2wolf: mithos28: what's the student languages ?
00:27 mithos28: HTDP
00:28 sw2wolf: WeScheme detects that you're using Opera 9.8 but WeScheme has only been tested on modern versions of Chrome, Firefox, or Safari.
00:29 sw2wolf: mithos28: i am using ERC so it is convenient to open 2 windows: one erc, one coding
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01:16 sw2wolf: Is racket thread light weight ?
01:17 mithos28: sw2wolf: What do you mean by that?
01:17 mithos28: Likely the answer will be yes
01:17 jonrafkind: racket has green threads
01:17 jonrafkind: and os level threads through places
01:17 sw2wolf: i mean whether or not it uses OS thread ?
01:17 mithos28: jonrafkind: are haskell threads green threads?
01:18 jonrafkind: i dunno
01:18 mithos28: they use M*N multiplexing
01:18 jonrafkind: sw2wolf, green threads are by definition threads implemented by the runtime of the VM
01:18 sw2wolf: mithos28: haskell thread is light weight
01:20 sw2wolf: jonrafkind: yes
01:36 mithos28: anyone on irc know anything about embedding racket? Or is matthew the only one who does?
01:37 jonrafkind: probably just matthew
01:37 mithos28: I have a program which runs 10000-100000 times slower in vim than in racket proper
01:38 jonrafkind: is it worth debugging :p
01:38 jonrafkind: i mean why not just have another terminal with racket open
01:38 mithos28: Well it is a really simple program
01:38 mithos28: Reading from async-channels and passing it on to other async-channels
01:39 mithos28: https://gist.github.com/4283200
01:39 jonrafkind: i mean why do you have to run it from inside vim
01:39 jonrafkind: terminal 1 can be the file and terminal 2 can be $ racket foo.rkt
01:40 mithos28: Well the point is to update a vim buffer with the output of an external process
01:40 mithos28: And I don't want to write that in vimscript
01:40 jonrafkind: :r !racket foo.rkt
01:41 mithos28: The issue is that I can get it to automatically do it, but the latency is really high
01:41 asumu: sw2wolf: oh, another Opera user. That's an ancient version though.
01:42 sw2wolf: asumu: i am an opera fans :)
01:42 jonrafkind: map <Leader>R :r !racket %
01:42 mithos28: jonrafkind: That mechanism requires me to do something to update the buffer
01:42 jonrafkind: how is it that the buffer updates without you doing anything?
01:42 jonrafkind: does it constantly run the program?
01:42 mithos28: a racket thread in the background does it
01:43 jonrafkind: well alright, i can see the utility of that
01:43 mithos28: but it takes like a 2-5 seconds to work
01:43 sw2wolf: asumu: i am using opera-11.62_1 on FreeBSD, it is not ancient
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01:44 asumu: Oh, 9.8 would've been.
01:44 mithos28: And I believe it is the async-channels that are the slow part
01:44 sw2wolf: i donot know why it reports it is 9.8 ?
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03:00 lhk: I want a ctype array, then as a parameter to c function imported  through ffi. for example,  I use the function   _array create an array named myarray,  but (array? myarray) always false
03:01 mithos28: lhk: did you send mail to the mailing list a bit a go?
03:01 lhk: yes
03:01 mithos28: Did jonrafkind's answer not help?
03:02 jonrafkind: lhk, did you try the code i wrote
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03:03 lhk: oh I see it. thank you
03:07 mithos28: What is the best way to break a non threadsafe data structure
03:09 jonrafkind: as in cause race-conditions?
03:09 mithos28: yeah
03:09 mithos28: data/gvector is not thread safe
03:09 jonrafkind: well.. i mean besides the obvious..? just write to it from different threads
03:09 mithos28: Well actually getting that to break it
03:09 jonrafkind: im not even sure how racket handles threading
03:09 jonrafkind: i guess its the same issue as any other threading model
03:10 mithos28: Oh, it might not break a thread in the midst of a finite inlined function
03:10 jonrafkind: yea
03:10 jonrafkind: i mean unless you know where the use_fuel() stuff goes
03:15 mithos28: Well that means it is safe enough to use as if it was thread safe
03:19 jonrafkind: i dont think your test demonstrates a race
03:20 mithos28: What do you mean?
03:20 jonrafkind: it would be a race if inside one of the threads you did print count = 0; add; print count; and expected 1
03:20 jonrafkind: the count of the vector just depends on when the threads are run
03:20 jonrafkind: if no threads run then its 0, 1 thread is 1, and both is 2
03:20 mithos28: Oh, I meant for there to be a sync before looking at the count
03:20 jonrafkind: oh
03:20 jonrafkind: oh ok like if both threads do the write at the same time
03:20 jonrafkind: i see
03:21 mithos28: yes because they read the size, update the vector, write the size
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03:23 jonrafkind: i tried it wtih 100 threads and its always ok
03:23 jonrafkind: i guess each thread would have to do a bunch of stuff before the add
03:23 jonrafkind: or something
03:23 mithos28: I tried 100000 threads each writing one element and and 100 writing 1000
03:24 mithos28: Looking at the code it is very obvious that it is possible, the issue is getting the racket runtime to do that interleaving
03:25 jonrafkind: yea i cant get it
03:25 jonrafkind: oh well
03:27 lewis1711: ohh. speaking of C FFI stuff.... http://pastebin.com/puGpW7Lz the data at line 1 is a c-pointer. the procedures at line 6, and 10 are C functions that should mutate it. at line 23, I should see the fruits of my mutation. however everything shows up as "visible?" all the time. is there anything obviously wrong I am doing? as an aside, I really hate debugging output and state..
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09:33 lhk: is there a function which can convert a list or vector to ctype array directly?
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10:11 mebassett: has anyone much experience with distributed places?
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10:37 yomomma: yo$
10:37 yomomma: momma
10:39 yomomma: FAIIIL
10:39 yomomma: mOTHA FUCK
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10:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/CDP0qg
10:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 891ee1b Asumu Takikawa: Fix missing set-integer-set-contents!...
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12:09 samth: jeapostrophe:  you might be able to answer the first two questions here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/racket
12:10 jeapostrophe: samth: jens did a fine job
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13:21 samth: jeapostrophe: ah, good
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16:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/rU6skA
16:23 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 2676bea Asumu Takikawa: Make integer-sets implement generic interfaces...
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16:26 asumu: ryanc's unstable/custom-write library is nice.
16:29 stamourv: Agreed.
16:31 asumu: Although the doc example uses #:property
16:31 asumu: So we should change it to use gen:custom-write.
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18:27 ozzloy: dyoo, how complete is arctangent?
18:27 dyoo: ozzloy: meant to be toy
18:28 dyoo: you can see the test suite: it does do things
18:28 dyoo: but I never meant it to be serious.  :)
18:28 ozzloy: how complete is the tutorial
18:28 ozzloy: is what i mean
18:28 Nisstyre: dyoo: so no complex atans?
18:28 dyoo: incomplete: I ran out of time during april fools, and then haven't gone back to it since
18:28 ozzloy: icic
18:29 ozzloy: did you release it, or could you do it for the next april fools?
18:29 dyoo: I didn't really formally release.  And I have a better idea for next april fools, but it's a secret
18:29 ozzloy: oic
18:29 dyoo: it's on github if you ever want to play with it
18:30 ozzloy: kk
18:30 Nisstyre: oh arctangent has nothing to do with geometry
18:30 Nisstyre: it's a parody
18:30 ozzloy: Nisstyre, sure doesn't
18:30 Nisstyre: :\
18:30 dyoo: https://github.com/dyoo/arctangent
18:30 ozzloy: yeah
18:30 ozzloy: dyoo, coo
18:30 ozzloy: l
18:30 Nisstyre: dyoo: yeah I just found the ml post you made
18:30 ozzloy: how do i build it?  git clone arctangent;cd arctangent; raco somethingorother?
18:31 dyoo: raco planet link dyoo arctangent.plt 1 0 .
18:32 dyoo: (after cd-ing into the arctangent directory)
18:32 ozzloy: cool
18:32 dyoo: then #lang planet dyoo/arctangent should work
18:33 ozzloy: what about building the manual?
18:33 ozzloy: like this http://planet.racket-lang.org/package-source/dyoo/arctangent.plt/1/0/manual.scrbl
18:33 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/br6jv5x
18:33 ozzloy: raco build the-manual
18:33 dyoo: scribble manual.scrbl
18:34 ozzloy: oh cool
18:34 ozzloy: oh, i just got to the end.  i guess i'll just have to read the code then
18:34 ozzloy: to figure out the rest
18:34 dyoo: look at test-arctangent to see what it does
18:34 ozzloy: kk
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18:52 greghendershott: dyoo: https://github.com/dyoo/arctangent/blob/master/manual.scrbl#L61 I'm disappointed you didn't use arcward
18:52 dyoo: I had several names in mind
18:52 dyoo: arcward was one of them if I'm remembering right, but I did _not_ want to antagonize
18:53 dyoo: Also thought about 'arclite'
18:53 greghendershott: I know. I mean your comment in the Scribble source; you could've just slipped in that paragraph instead of "awkward" :)
18:55 dyoo: 'arctangent' hit the right meaning for me: it was not meant to be arc, but a language tangent to it., to be approached using Racket's native extension tools.
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18:55 greghendershott: you were right not to cause offense, that would have been a sin
18:55 dyoo: *cough*  :)
18:56 jonrafkind: now you should write a #lang CL language
18:57 dyoo: I need to finish projects that I start… autogrammar's my new target to get Done.
18:57 greghendershott: clang
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18:57 greghendershott: clangky
18:58 jonrafkind: CL = crap lang
19:00 dyoo: goog
19:00 greghendershott: I've still not done a #lang. I've never felt like I had a compelling need.
19:00 dyoo: Whoops, sorry, that was meant to go to spotlight, not irc
19:00 greghendershott: I should make myself do one for the experience. Maybe then I'd see more needs.
19:01 dca: Hi. How can i get specifc value from multiple return values
19:01 dca: e.g from (values ...)
19:01 dca: ?
19:01 dyoo: dca: do you know exactly how many values you're getting back?
19:01 ozzloy: sometimes i get stack traces like this: http://pastebin.ca/2293655 where line 4 says "running body" which is completely unhelpful.  how do i deal with that?
19:01 dca: yeah
19:01 dyoo: dca: if so, you can use define-values
19:01 dyoo: dca: example:
19:02 dyoo: rudybot: (define (q/r m n) (values (quotient m n) (remainder m n)))
19:02 rudybot: dyoo: your sandbox is ready
19:02 rudybot: dyoo: Done.
19:02 dyoo: rudybot: (define-values (a b) (q/r 17 9))
19:02 rudybot: dyoo: Done.
19:02 dyoo: rudybot: a
19:02 rudybot: dyoo: ; Value: 1
19:02 dyoo: rudybot: b
19:02 rudybot: dyoo: ; Value: 8
19:02 dyoo: dca: does that address your question?
19:02 dca: dyoo: nice. thanks!
19:02 jonrafkind: there are very few problems that require a new #lang
19:02 jonrafkind: unless you are trying to process some existing language in racket or something
19:03 dca: dyoo: so define values adds new values to current lexical context ?
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19:03 dyoo: ozzloy: ugh, I hate that as well.  Not sure what causes it, and I'm usually in DrRacket where the stack traces are a bit better.
19:04 dyoo: dca: yeah, you can also use it within functions, just like any other local definition.
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19:04 ozzloy: dyoo, oh, interesting
19:04 dyoo: dca: example:
19:05 dyoo: rudybot: (define (f) (define-values (m n) (q/r 41 17)) (printf "I see m is ~s and n is ~s\n" m n))
19:05 rudybot: dyoo: Done.
19:06 dyoo: rudybot: (f)
19:06 rudybot: dyoo: ; stdout: "I see m is 2 and n is 7\n"
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19:06 ozzloy: dyoo, well if i find something, i'll let you know
19:06 dyoo: ozzloy: yeah, thanks!
19:06 ozzloy: jonrafkind, new goal: write every language in racket
19:06 dca: dyoo: that seems ok, but i just need to get one accum-id values from values returned by for/fold.
19:07 dyoo: dca: sorry, slightly busy (trying to deploy new version of wescheme.org); can someone else help?
19:07 (quit) Nisstyre: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
19:08 ozzloy: slightly less ambitious goal: write the top 5 languages in racket, no regard for optimization of runtime or memory usage or anything
19:08 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
19:09 greghendershott: dca: Can you pastebin or gist an example of what you mean?
19:10 dca: oh, i think i can just get away with that by wrapping let-values around my for/fold (which returns 2 vals)
19:10 greghendershott: dca: yes I was just typing out an example like that right now :)
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19:11 dca: greghendershott: thanks
19:11 greghendershott: let-values will still define those things at the scope like define-value does.
19:12 greghendershott: you'd said above "adds new values to current lexical context?" so I wondered if that was your question
19:12 greghendershott: wait I think I'm putting that in a confusing way. never mind. if you're still stuck, let me know
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19:15 dca: ok, thank you. so is it correct: define-values will add vals to current context, while let-values will bind them only for body of its ?
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19:16 greghendershott: dca: Yes
19:21 dyoo: dca: ok, back.  Thanks greg.
19:24 dyoo: ozzloy: I think there's fairly good agreement that python's one of the languages ripe for #lang treatment.  Any others you're thinking of?
19:24 asumu: Lua.
19:24 ozzloy: dyoo, http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html says c java objective-c c++ and c#
19:24 asumu might do that in his spare time sometime. Already wrote a coroutine library.
19:24 (quit) mizu_no_oto: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
19:25 ozzloy: dyoo, to answer your question, no, i didn't have any specific ones in mind
19:26 ozzloy: it'd be a really big boon if you could access the libs written for all those languages
19:27 dyoo: ozzloy: agreed.  Ok, will keep it in mind and work toward it.
19:27 ozzloy: lulz
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19:33 sw2wolf: what's the different between (list 1 2 3) and '(1 2 3) ?
19:35 sw2wolf: rudybot: (list (list 1 2 3))
19:35 rudybot: sw2wolf: ; Value: ((1 2 3))
19:35 sw2wolf: rudybot: '('(1 2 3))
19:35 rudybot: sw2wolf: ; Value: ((quote (1 2 3)))
19:36 ozzloy: rudybot, '((1 2 3))
19:36 rudybot: ozzloy: your sandbox is ready
19:36 rudybot: ozzloy: ; Value: ((1 2 3))
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19:37 sw2wolf: rudybot: '(1 2 3)
19:37 rudybot: sw2wolf: ; Value: (1 2 3)
19:38 sw2wolf: ozzloy: is 'list a function ?
19:39 ozzloy: er... technically 'list is a symbol
19:39 ozzloy: but yeah, list is the name of a function
19:40 sw2wolf: thx
19:40 ozzloy: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/pairs.html?q=list#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._list))
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19:43 ozzloy: also http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/pairs.html?q=list#(tech._list) sw2wolf
19:44 sw2wolf: thx
19:44 ozzloy: yw
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20:28 sw2wolf .oO{  }
20:29 sw2wolf .oO{ call/cc }
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20:45 sw2wolf: rudybot: (+ 1 1)
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21:07 17SAB700R: why doesn't the builtin contract libary define real/c, integer/c, complex/c, rational/c, or number/c ? I would have thought that those would be convenient contract primitives.
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21:08 asumu: 17SAB700R: no need. You can just use real?
21:08 17SAB700R: what the crap happened to my nickname? O.o
21:08 asumu: integer?, complex?, rational?, etc.
21:09 asumu: I don't know, who are you usually? ;) (my client doesn't show nick changes)
21:09 17SAB700R: I'm supposed to be dented42
21:09 (nick) 17SAB700R -> dented42
21:09 dented42: that's better
21:09 dented42 wonders where 17SAB700R came from
21:09 dented42: asumu: yes that's true, but there is a natural-number/c
21:10 dented42: as well as cons/c
21:10 asumu: Yes, but that's probably just because exact-nonnegative-integer? is a mouthful.
21:10 dented42: I guess
21:11 asumu: cons/c is actually different from cons?
21:11 dented42: oh, yes you're right. sorry
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21:12 asumu: natural-number/c is redundant, but it's at least a shorter name. real/c, integer/c, etc. would be redundant and the names would get longer. :p
21:12 dented42: not really
21:12 dented42: it's my understanding that if you want to make a contract out of integer?, you'd need to go (flat-contract integer?)
21:13 dented42: which is quite a lot longer
21:13 asumu: Nope, here:
21:13 asumu: rudybot: (contract integer? 5 'pos 'neg)
21:13 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
21:13 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: 5
21:13 asumu: rudybot: (contract complex? "foo" 'pos 'neg)
21:13 rudybot: asumu: error: #<undefined>:1:0: self-contract violation, expected: complex?, given: "foo" <NEWLINE>   contract from: pos, blaming: pos <NEWLINE>   contract: complex? <NEWLINE>
21:13 asumu: rudybot: (define/contract x integer? 5.0)
21:13 rudybot: asumu: Done.
21:13 asumu: rudybot: (define/contract x exact-integer? 5.0)
21:13 rudybot: asumu: error: x: self-contract violation, expected: exact-integer?, given: 5.0 <NEWLINE>   contract from: (definition x), blaming: (definition x) <NEWLINE>   contract: exact-integer? <NEWLINE>         at: #<undefined>:1.17
21:13 asumu: ^ see.
21:14 asumu: All predicates are contracts in Racket.
21:14 dented42: forgive me but I have no idea what you just did
21:14 dented42: oh, they are?
21:14 dented42: hm
21:14 asumu: Yep.
21:14 (quit) mizu_no_oto: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
21:14 asumu: Oh, the `contract` form is a low-level form to apply a contract.
21:14 asumu: `define/contract` locally applies a contract in a definition.
21:15 dented42: oh, ok
21:15 asumu: It's just more convenient for showing contracts in a REPL than using provide/contract.
21:15 dented42: right
21:16 dented42: so if predicates are also contracts, then what is the point of the flat-contract function?
21:18 asumu: I think there was a point when predicates were not useable as contracts in older Racket versions.
21:18 asumu: It dates from back then.
21:18 asumu: The pre-release docs actually state this: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/reference/data-structure-contracts.html?q=flat-contract
21:18 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/co7c6hl
21:18 asumu: (that blurb was added in the last week or two)
21:21 dented42: ah
21:22 dented42: so this was a recent change? or it didn't end up getting documented until a short while ago?
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21:27 asumu: The latter.
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