00:00 offby1: I <3 it but I am used to taking lots of flak for that.
00:00 lewis1711: slightly random question - I don't suppose anyone knows of a 3d functional Bresenham line algorithm implementation floating around do they? I can find a C version but it's full of bitshifting and mutation, would be a very odd racket translation
00:00 offby1 ponders a "coming out" movie based on his life as a perlophile
00:00 lewis1711: ha!
00:01 lewis1711: offby1: I often thought a marriage of perl and lisp would be nice. full of s-expressions with very short function names. actually my object system looks a bit like that (slightly copied from neilv)
00:02 Shambles_: I think there's OpenGL wrappers standard in Racket.  Seems like there's some alternatives too.  And then there's the stuff on PLaneT that wraps things like Gnuplot, and a more updated OpenGL wrapper, and I think even some wrappers for 3-D engines (OGRE maybe?).
00:03 offby1: lewis1711: perl6 is something like that
00:03 lewis1711: I more want the actual "points" than a line to be drawn
00:03 lewis1711: the use case is - two colours (r1 g1 b1), (r2 g2, b2). I want every single possible colour between the two
00:04 Shambles_: You might want to consider whether, once you abbreviate/use-meaningless-(to most people)-symbols-for the function names, whether Lisp remains readable.  You might also want to consider whether OO programming is useful most of the time (heresy, I know, but seriously, how often does figuring out the type hierarchy for your program have anything to do with what the program is supposed to /do/ for the user).
00:05 lewis1711: I have a high tolerance for short function names. I have almost no tolerance for uncommented code though
00:06 Shambles_: Hmm.  If you want to see the colors you might like using a wrapper for cairo.  At least I think I saw one.  Guess that doesn't help with the 3-D part though.  If you just want to do the math you might be able to use a standard vector library to do most of the work.
00:07 lewis1711: yeah, just the maths
00:07 lewis1711: I'm not worried about output at all - that's taken care of
00:07 lewis1711: can this be done with discrete linear algebra? perhaps I should ask some mathematicians
00:07 Shambles_: I guess I've gone the other way.  I have a low tolerance for short/meaningless function names, but see little point in commenting anything other than perhaps "why I did it this way" (if we don't spank the octopus on the 5th day of every month it causes the database to catch on fire on the Ides of March).
00:08 Shambles_: I'm currently imagining just computing a vector inside a color cube and interpolating along it, but I don't claim to be any kind of mathematical genius.  I'm actually fairly weak in numerical math.
00:09 Shambles_: I haven't done any vector math in quite a while, but don't remember finding that, or interpolation, very painful.
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00:20 Shambles_: mithos28: I just saw your question back there.  Desktop software is all I have much interest in.  I suppose I might care about server software on occasion, but it would only be where the desktop software has some need of it.  Yes, I know it's strange not to have any interest in mobile phones, tablets, or 'the cloud'.  I am tragically unhip.
00:24 ewemoa: i'm trying to make a stand-alone executable i can share -- tried through drracket, but the executing the unpacked result leads to: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found
00:24 ewemoa: collection: "racket/lang" -- any hints on investigating?
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00:26 mithos28: ewemoa: I have had issues with that before, are you selecting the distribute option?
00:26 ewemoa: mithos28: yes
00:26 ewemoa: but the standalone executable option doesn't work out either
00:26 ewemoa: although the launcher option does
00:26 mithos28: ewemoa: Can you try with a simple hello world program?
00:26 ewemoa: i can post sample code
00:27 mithos28: If you can replicate the issue with a simple program, I would send mail to the mailing list
00:27 ewemoa: ah -- hmm, i don't use email
00:27 mithos28: ewemoa: You can use google groups web ui
00:28 ewemoa: ah i can do that without an account?
00:28 mithos28: maybe
00:28 mithos28: and actually that may only be a read only view
00:28 mithos28: Shambles_: But the cloud is the future
00:29 ewemoa: mithos28: well, fwiw, here's the first file: test.rkt: http://pastie.org/private/xvscvhecmhvmybx37pn8og and here's the second: dependant.rkt: http://pastie.org/private/szh5ywslwanyhnasmx8pqa
00:30 Shambles_: mithos28: Perhaps when we all have jacks directly into our brain, and everybody decides that computers have suddenly grown extremely expensive, and they had rather rent software indefinitely than own it, and nobody cares about privacy, and we all have 100% reliable low-latency connections (i.e. death of wireless)...
00:30 mithos28: Shambles_: so two years?
00:31 Shambles_: Hopefully 200.  That should give me long enough to be sure I'm dead from old age before everything I like about computing is destroyed. :P
00:31 mithos28: What is wrong with the cloud?
00:32 Shambles_: Why do I want to rent a computer when I can own one affordably?  Why do I want to pump stuff between a real computer and some modern equivalent to a dumb terminal, as opposed to run it locally.  Why do I want to upload everything I have to some other machine rather than keeping it on local storage...
00:33 Shambles_: I understand the appeal for people that want to sell other's information, and rent software, but I don't see the value in it for customers, or anybody that actually likes being able to program (without paying through the nose to get access to a 'real machine', as opposed to a dumb terminal smart phone or tablet).
00:33 mithos28: because you don't rent a computer, you rent computing power at much cheaper than rates for a desktop
00:35 Shambles_: Well, given I was able to do word processing/desktop publishing, use spreadsheets, and whatnot, with pretty true type fonts and color graphics on a... 286, from the mid 80s, and my current computers aren't painfully slow, it would seem there is an excess of computing power available at ~$500 every few years.
00:35 lewis1711: implementing basic linalg functions in racket. I'm sure I've done this before...
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00:36 Shambles_: Computers are cheap.  This is what put a end to the bad old days of everybody sharing some mainframe and using dumb terminals.  I'd rather not go back to that.
00:38 mithos28: What is wrong with that? That is what I mostly do with my computers
00:38 mithos28: terminal and web browser
00:38 lewis1711: it'd be nice to have some pure racket numerical linalg lib. I see there's a few BLAS interfaces on racket, but for non intensive stuff the hassle of dealing with binded C or Fortran is a bit much
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00:39 Shambles_: I guess if you're okay with someone selling off all your private info, deciding when you're able to do things (pools closed because of maintenance), and charging you constantly, it's okay for you.  I'll pass.
00:39 mithos28: I assume neil is working on that in the math library
00:39 Shambles_: To draw an analogy, it's the difference between being 'free' and being a 'serf'.
00:41 mithos28: Shambles_: I assume you pay for internet access, why is compute power different than that?
00:41 Shambles_: Right now the pro-cloud folks all dream of being minor nobility, while beggaring their neighbor.  That's where the push is coming from.  I don't see a lot of computer-illiterates begging for the ability to rent computers/software rather than owning them.
00:41 lewis1711: mithos28: oh cool. you mean it'll be in mainline racket?
00:42 mithos28: lewis1711: yeah, but I might be wrong
00:42 Shambles_: Because when my net connection goes down, most of my stuff continues to work.  Also, my ISP cutting me off does not preclude me from forming my own network, since my hardware still has that capability.  For now, LAN parties are rather popular.
00:43 lewis1711: (define (v-abs v) (sqrt (for/sum ([e v]) (sqr e)))) ;I love list comprehensions. or... vector... comprehensions ???
00:43 mithos28: Shambles_: Have you used siri or google voice search? Those are technologies that are all cloud that many people are saying is great.
00:44 Shambles_: Nope.  I don't know what those are, but if the latter's name is descriptive, I can't imagine having a use for it.
00:45 ewemoa: mithos28: it looks like bugs can be filed without an email address so i took that route -- thanks for your help
00:45 Shambles_: Still, I grew up before the Internet was publicly accessible.  I had a computer back then.  I very much liked it.  I /owned/ the computer.  I did what I wanted with it.  I value that ability.
00:46 Shambles_: The net is just 'added value', though it's a big whopping added value, I admit.
00:46 mithos28: How is the cloud different?
00:46 Shambles_: And the more distributed the control to it is, the better.  I don't see any of this cloud stuff making anything better.  I /do/ see it making things much worse.
00:46 mithos28: It doesn't stop you from doing anything
00:47 Shambles_: Alrighty, you must be trolling me, since I've just explained how being cloud-dependent was not the situation I grew up in, and how having my 'net connection go down does not currently prevent most of my software from working.
00:48 Shambles_: Yes, so long as we all keep real computers and don't move into the dumb-terminal+rent 'world of the future' I'm not prevented from doing anything, and can go on merrily ignoring the 'cloud'.
00:48 mithos28: I can see why you don't use it, but I don't get why it is a negative
00:49 Shambles_: I see it as a negative because it's just a power grab, and if the power grab works, it will do great harm to people who are too ignorant to fall for it, which accounts for most of the non-computer-nerds I know.  Witness the popularity of teens flashing their tits or smoking pot on Facebook, then getting found out for it sometimes years later.
00:51 mithos28: Huh? How is facebook part of cloud computing?
00:51 Shambles_: I love technology, most of the time.  Not all applications of technology are good.  This isn't new.  It's been around since we learned basic tool use.  The same blacksmith that could make you some nice horse shoes or a wagon wheel could just as easily make a 'spider' for someone to torture you with.
00:51 Shambles_: The latter doesn't really have any legitimate use.
00:52 Shambles_: Facebook could be argued to be a part of cloud computing (it is probably /the/ primary application of tablets, though I do know of some other excuses), but it was more intended as an example of 'normal people' not knowing better than to use a bad technology.  Posting your 'diary' for the world to see is generally unwise.
00:53 lewis1711: how do you contract out something of the form (define (foo . args) ...) ? is it possible?
00:53 mithos28: lewis1711: yes
00:53 Shambles_: I am aware of legitimate uses of blogging.  I do think it's a cop out for making a 'real website' in those cases (e.g. announcements related to some software), but perhaps that copout isn't so bad if it gives them more time to do something useful or at least harmless/safe/enjoyable.
00:54 Shambles_: But that's not what Facebook is promoted as.
00:54 mithos28: (->* #:rest number? number?)
00:54 mithos28: Shambles_: The social web is not cloud computing
00:54 lewis1711: mithos28: legend, thanks
00:55 mithos28: lewis1711: that might be a bit off
00:55 mithos28: but I think you can figure out if I messed it up a bit
00:56 Shambles_: mithos28: I suppose that's arguable.  On one hand you can look at what people are doing with their dumb terminals (smart phones and tablets).  On the other hand you can look at the "rent a computer/software" aspect.  Facebook would fall under the former, but not the latter.
00:57 mithos28: Mobile computing and cloud computing are synergistic but completely different
00:57 Shambles_: mithos28: "Renting a server" is old, pre-cloud, and innocuous.  I don't see a point in using a buzzword for that.  Virtualization also has nothing inherently to do with the cloud.  The university uses it to run several lightweight servers with different OS's on the same machine, all of which they own.  "The cloud" only seems to be used for this power grab situation.
01:00 Shambles_: If you want to ignore the "people are using dumb terminals for" aspect, then it amounts to rent-a-computer/software.  MMORPG's are a pretty good example, since you often have to pay monthly fees, and they usually make use of virtualization to control their loads.  They're not too malicious since they haven't eliminated alternatives.
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01:01 Shambles_: Office 365 is closer to what seems to be planned.  I haven't used it but apparently there's a release of office that runs primarily over the network, rather than locally.  That kind of software, software that has no need to be networked, sends your information across the network, and breaks when the other end won't talk with you, is the problem.
01:02 Shambles_: In any case, I'm pretty sure you understand where I'm coming from.  There's other people like me if you're interested enough to Google.  I'm gonna go do something else though.
01:02 lewis1711: mithos28: hmm yeah, the docs say it won't work for . args, but not what will
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01:04 lewis1711: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/contracts-general-functions.html#%28part._contracts-optional%29 oh here we go
01:04 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/cegxf7t
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01:48 shriphani: hi has anyone used the plt-linalg package? I am facing a few issues getting it to run
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04:36 lewis1711: I am sort of confused about struct constructors. can they be "baked into" the struct? so if you define struct foo, foo does some extra logic when called? or should I just write a "make-foo"?
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06:02 lewis1711: can a field in a struct be mutable in a parent, and immutable in the child?
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06:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/CwbUDg
06:59 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 7a85072 Matthew Flatt: dist-specs and build: include math libs
06:59 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 64f0273 Matthew Flatt: fix printing problem with flvectors
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07:27 asvil: hi all
07:27 asvil: I have error when racket compilation. Bad place for function call, starting tok is scheme_complex_real_part. What does it mean?
07:28 asvil: It seems that 3m garbage collector is broken
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07:47 tewk: asvil: have you modified the c code?
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07:50 tewk: asvil: write "Scheme_Object *so= scheme_complex_real_part(...); foo(do);"  instead of "foo(scheme_complex_real_part(...))"
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07:53 asvil: tewk, yes I modified it, but not files, which trigger error
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08:11 tewk: asvil: The code is compiled twice once for the cgc collector a second time for the 3m collector.
08:12 tewk: asvil: The 3m collector requires a strictor subset of C that often disallows nested function calls.
08:12 tewk: the cgc compile worked, but the 3m one did not.
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08:13 tewk: The 3m compiler uses xform to transform the C code before compiling it.  The transformation failed due to a badly placed function call.
08:13 tewk: This is usually because nested function calls are not allowed.
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08:14 tewk: xform has limited intelligence it can't handle some of the more complicated C syntax like nested function calls.
08:23 asvil: tewk, ok, but it show me error for compenv.c, which I did not modify. and yes, error is for nested call. I use mingw, does xform use gcc for code analys?
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08:59 greghendershott: samth: Re a Scribble "markdown-render.rkt", here's what I have so far: https://gist.github.com/4215654#comments
08:59 samth: greghendershott: i was just looking at that :)
08:59 samth: it's great
09:00 greghendershott: I picked the largest Scribble file I have.
09:00 samth: you should try it on the reference :)
09:01 greghendershott: I wanted the "contract blue boxes" to be formatted using ```scheme, but, the non-breaking spaces provided by Scribble to align things look dumb, and converting them to normal spaces ruins the alignment. But maybe this monochrome style is preferable to some anyway
09:01 greghendershott: Yeah the reference, ha. :)
09:01 samth: asvil: no, xform doesn't use gcc
09:01 samth: asvil: see the comments at the top of https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/src/racket/gc2/xform.rkt
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09:02 samth: greghendershott: i'm not sure i understand about the non-breaking spaces
09:02 samth: can you give an example?
09:02 samth: lewis1711: no, fields in parents can't be changed in child structs
09:03 greghendershott: line 216 in the gist, is from the original text-render.rkt.
09:03 greghendershott: (regexp-replace* #rx" " i "\uA0")
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09:03 greghendershott: It's used to preserve code indenting, align contract lists, etc.
09:04 samth: right, but doesn't ``` do that automatically for spaces?
09:04 greghendershott: you would think so but it wasn't.
09:04 greghendershott: I can look at it more.
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09:05 greghendershott: I guess my bigger question is what to do with this when it is polished.
09:05 samth: can you give a small example of the broken markdown?
09:06 greghendershott: sure, just give me a minute or two ...
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09:16 tewk: asvil: xform is written in racket and uses regexes for parsing it doesn't have a real c parser.
09:17 tewk: asvil: if you need help nopaste your changes and error mesage.
09:18 greghendershott: Never mind I figured it out. The original text-render.rkt leaves those \uA0 chars in the text file output. They look like blue underlines in Emacs, for instance.
09:19 greghendershott: But I can replace them with plain spaces again. I'd almost think it was a bug in text-render, that they're left in the final output.
09:20 greghendershott: Anyway figured out for markdown.
09:23 greghendershott: samth: https://gist.github.com/4215654/3405814e6bd7ce05bf06aa7502fb21e7cc21c71d is with the ```scheme
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09:24 greghendershott: Github's pygments.rb still hasn't pulled from upstream in 4 months, still doesn't have the Racket lexer I contributed to pygments-main. So for now, still has to be ```scheme not ```racket, and still highlights square brackets as "errors". Sigh.
09:24 samth: greghendershott: looks nice, but does it not work if you use ```racket ?
09:24 samth: i thought it rendered that like ```scheme
09:25 greghendershott: No.
09:25 greghendershott: It recognizes .rkt should use the Scheme lexer
09:25 greghendershott: But ``` specifies the lexer
09:25 greghendershott: And ```racket is unknown (for now), and renders like ```
09:28 samth: greghendershott: ah, bother
09:28 greghendershott: (Some people prefer the plain version. Personally I like it lexed, but, I'd prefer another style sheet taking the color contrast down somewhat.)
09:29 greghendershott: Anyway, I suppose can sort out ```scheme vs. ```racket later.
09:29 greghendershott: Question: This output is very far from plain text. I think this would need to be a new markdown-render option (in addition to with html, text, pdf) as opposed to replacing the current text mode?
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09:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/qfuCeg
09:34 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 62019bb Matthew Flatt: raco setup: flush loaded "info-domain" when info is updated...
09:34 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8e5a42b Matthew Flatt: remove docs for removed library
09:34 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a559347 Matthew Flatt: remove property for removed file
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09:36 samth: greghendershott: it seems to have some bugs w/ the copyright block at the end of the file
09:38 greghendershott: Yep, still some glitches I need to figure out. Escaping more markdown chars, for example.
09:38 samth: greghendershott: if it wasn't for the ```scheme i would say that it looked as good as the regular text rendering
09:38 samth: but it's probably best to just create a new renderer
09:39 samth: greghendershott: note that w/ planet2, you can add that file in your own package
09:39 greghendershott: Do you mean viewing the raw markdown source text is not too bad, except that ```scheme is distracting as opposed to just ```?
09:45 greghendershott: I'm not sure what you mean re planet2. "Add that file" = markdown output documentation, —or— add a markdown-render.rkt to the Scribble package?
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09:54 samth: greghendershott: yes about the raw source, and the latter about markdown-render.rkt
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10:00 asvil: about xform (3m gc) my fork is here https://github.com/filonenko-mikhail/racket , if you can make fast diagnos please see it
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10:04 samth: asvil: which branch?
10:04 asvil: long-double-support
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10:09 samth: asvil: it looks like you changed scheme_eqv to be non-gcing, but it can't be
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10:10 samth: asvil: i think it must be this part that's wrong: https://github.com/filonenko-mikhail/racket/commit/462522cf32555f6451359f514c7ae2239569b5fb#L21L267
10:10 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/bxx47of
10:11 samth: asvil: ah, i think what happens is that you're telling xform to skip the definition of is_eqv, so then xform doesn't know that is_eqv is nongcing when processing scheme_eqv
10:11 samth: why are you adding the xform_skip?
10:12 asvil: samth, yes i read about this "fix" in maillist, so first error was in is_eqv
10:13 asvil: please remove it around is_eqv
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10:14 samth: asvil: trying that now
10:14 samth: everything seems to build correctly
10:14 samth: what should i test?
10:14 asvil: samth: the first error is that  Function is_eqv declared __xform_nongcing__, but includes a function call.
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10:16 samth: asvil: i don't get any errors at all
10:16 samth: i now have a running racket on your branch
10:17 samth: what should i test?
10:18 asvil: so, racket3m -f collects/tests/racket/extflonum.rktl
10:18 asvil: but
10:19 asvil: you have no problem, but I have, my system is mingw (gcc 4.7.2)
10:19 asvil: and Function is_eqv declared __xform_nongcing__
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10:21 samth: asvil: i get a lot of errors from the tests
10:22 samth: does the system build on mingw without your long double changes?
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10:30 asvil: samth there are two king of changes: long double supporting and mingw supporting, i made they in parallel, and today when I merged changes I got error
10:30 samth: asvil: probably you should keep them separate
10:30 asvil: :))
10:30 samth: is there a reason you don't use msvc?
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10:31 asvil: so I like when thing just works without my intervention, but msvc does not support extended double
10:31 asvil: or 80bit fpu
10:32 asvil: and problems start from this point
10:34 asvil: probably there is ifdef which make xform crazy, because xform do not like what like before my changes, for example return _main(scheme_basic_env(), ma->argc, ma->argv);
10:35 asvil: s/make/makes s/do/does
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10:47 asvil: samth if you comment src/racket/sconfig.h from line 649 to 651
10:48 samth: asvil: at this point, you are much much more likely to get useful answers from the mailing list, or from just emailing matthew directly
10:48 lewis1711: samth: oh well, it'll have to be mutable
10:48 asvil: ok, anyway big thanks for linux testing
10:49 samth: asvil: np, thanks for doing this work on long doubles
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11:00 lewis1711: you know how most languages butcher integer division? how do you do that on purpose in scheme? ;)
11:01 noelw: fx/
11:01 noelw: ?
11:01 lewis1711: I think it's truncating
11:01 lewis1711: rudybot: (fx/ 55 2)
11:01 rudybot: lewis1711: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: fx/ in module: 'program
11:02 lewis1711: rudybot: (define (// a b) (truncate (/ a b)))
11:02 rudybot: lewis1711: Done.
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11:03 lewis1711: that seems to be it
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11:24 carleastlund: lewis1711, do you want "quotient"?
11:24 carleastlund: rudybot: (quotient 55 2)
11:24 rudybot: carleastlund: ; Value: 27
11:24 carleastlund: rudybot: (remainder 55 2)
11:24 rudybot: carleastlund: ; Value: 1
11:24 carleastlund: rudybot: (quotient/remainder 55 2)
11:24 rudybot: carleastlund: ; Value: 27
11:24 rudybot: carleastlund: ; Value#2: 1
11:25 lewis1711: rudybot: (quotient 592305 213)
11:25 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: 2780
11:25 lewis1711: carleastlund: yes I do :)
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12:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/wRrB1w
12:13 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 863af8c Matthew Flatt: try again to fix props...
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12:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/t9zZmg
12:18 RacketCommitBot: racket/master fc7fa68 Matthew Flatt: remove test for removed library...
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12:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/BFi4kQ
12:20 RacketCommitBot: racket/master ce567c8 Ryan Culpepper: use define-logger
12:20 RacketCommitBot: racket/master dbf8026 Ryan Culpepper: log time for macro-stepper gui steps
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12:42 lewis1711: can you expand a macro inside a macro? yo dawg I heard you like macros... etc
12:43 mithos28: lewis1711: Yes, depending on what you mean it may be easy or hard
12:43 mithos28: Do you want the outer macro to see the expanded inner macro?
12:44 lewis1711: yes!
12:44 lewis1711: http://pastebin.com/gss5EPDZ method on live needs expanding
12:44 mithos28: Thats the hard way
12:44 lewis1711: damn
12:45 mithos28: what do you mean by 'method on live needs expanding'
12:45 lewis1711: I meant "method" on line five
12:45 lewis1711: and somehow line five came out as live
12:46 mithos28: The outer macro then does'nt need to see the expanded inner macro then
12:47 mithos28: you just want the inner macro to expand after the outer macro
12:47 lewis1711: oh. yeah I guess so
12:47 mithos28: then its easy
12:47 lewis1711: just as long as the second value in the dotted pair is method, expanded
12:47 lewis1711: when all is said and done
12:47 mithos28: I think your bug is that you are using ' instead of ` on line 5
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12:49 lewis1711: of course
12:49 lewis1711: great, def-method works :D I've been trying to get that going on and off for days. ty mithos28
12:50 mithos28: Thats why you ask for a second set of eyes
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13:48 danl-ndi: i have a parameterize block that sets a parameter. the body calls load on a file that accesses that parameter but does not see the parameterized value
13:49 danl-ndi: anyone know why that would be?
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13:50 danl-ndi: ah nevermind I know...
13:51 danl-ndi: ok scratch that I don't know...
13:52 danl-ndi: heh... once again nevermind.
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14:02 Blkt: good evening everyone
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15:04 stamourv: Good evening Blkt.
15:05 stamourv: (Well, it's still afternoon in Boston, but at this time of the year, it's already a bit dark.)
15:05 lewis1711: a fine summers morning here
15:06 stamourv: lewis1711: Southern hemisphere?
15:06 lewis1711: indeed
15:06 stamourv: (Well, temperature-wise, it almost feels like summer here too.)
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15:07 lewis1711: I'd better go out and drag trees around actually
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15:45 asumu: Huh. I added a debug printf to one place, and I start to get a compile error to do with units.
15:45 asumu: Then I take out the debug printf, re-compile, and it still errors.
15:45 asumu: If I `rm` the file, then `git reset`, it's fine.
15:45 asumu is pretty confused by this behavior
15:46 dyoo: asumu: module linkage error potentially?
15:47 asumu: Maybe, but it doesn't go away even if I delete the zos and re-build it seems.
15:48 asumu: Oh, I think I see what's going on...
15:49 asumu: Stale emacs state was the issue. Had a buffer open for the file I wanted to edit, but it had been moved in the meantime.
15:50 dyoo: ah.
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15:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/e2EYVg
15:56 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 039abed Ryan Culpepper: fix display when reader abbreviations disabled
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16:15 greghendershott: I'm building Racket for the first time ever. On OS X. And I'm seeing something that looks like it can't be right.
16:15 greghendershott: Running make, I get "Copying tree…" followed by dozens of lines like this:
16:15 greghendershott: Copying /Applications/Racket_v5.3.1.9/collects/scheme/mzscheme.rkt to /Users/greg/src/plt/racket/src/racket/gc2/xform-collects/scheme/mzscheme.rkt
16:16 greghendershott: I had a nightly build installed (not to mention many other versions), and make seems to be copying files from the nightly build's collects, to my src tree … that can't be right?
16:16 samth: greghendershott: that's entirely right
16:17 samth: xform is complicated
16:17 greghendershott: It's overwriting my git source with files from and older nightly build ??
16:17 greghendershott: (is what it sounds like it's doing)
16:17 samth: no
16:17 samth: wait
16:17 greghendershott: oh. whew.
16:18 samth: certainly it's not over-writing anything -- you didn't have a gc2/xform-collects directory previously
16:18 samth: but why it's using the nightly build, i don't know
16:18 samth: also, you should use a separate build directory
16:18 greghendershott: I have a PLTCOLLECTS env variable
16:19 greghendershott: Pointing to that nightly build.
16:19 samth: that might be the problem -- does it explicitly include that?
16:19 samth: why did you put your main collects dir in PLTCOLLECTS?
16:20 greghendershott: That's just part of my normal usage of prebuilt Racket.
16:20 samth: you shouldn't ever need to do that
16:20 greghendershott: OK well I'll try again with no PLTCOLLECTS variable.
16:21 samth: it shouldn't do that, even with PLTCOLLECTS set though, so that's probably a bug
16:22 greghendershott: Sorry one more quick question: After running make, 'git status' says would I like to add a boatload of .o and other output files. I don't mind adding them to .gitignore myself but the fact they're not already seems like might be somethign else not right
16:23 stamourv: greghendershott: You should build in plt/src/build
16:23 stamourv: That's already gitignored.
16:24 stamourv: And you can nuke the whole directory if need be, without risking losing anything useful.
16:24 samth: what stamourv said
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16:26 greghendershott: Oh, OK. I was following Joe's contribute to Racket blog post. Run make from racket/src.
16:27 greghendershott: I feel like I'm being dense, but "build in plt/src/build" means what specifically? (sorry)
16:28 samth: % cd plt/src
16:28 samth: % mkdir build
16:28 samth: % cd build
16:28 samth: % ../configure
16:28 samth: % make
16:28 samth: greghendershott: ^
16:35 greghendershott: *feels sheepish*
16:35 greghendershott: samth: Thank you
16:50 (quit) mizu_no_oto: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
16:51 greghendershott: I ran make and it finished in 2 minutes. Sweet.
16:51 greghendershott: Now I'm running make install …  :)
16:51 dyoo: greghendershott: yeah, that part takes a bit longer
16:53 dyoo: greghendershott: by the way, I've found the "x" option to git clean helpful, as it wipes out files even if they're mentioned in gitignored
16:53 greghendershott: I learned my laptop does have a fan, and it does work. I do like how it's using all 8 cores.
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16:54 greghendershott: OK it's done. I feel like a real hacker now. Cough.
16:54 greghendershott: dyoo: Good point re git clean, thanks.
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17:17 asumu: Okay, looks like I killed this TR bug. Caused by function applications with no kw args and some kw args expanding differently.
17:18 stamourv: :D
17:21 lewis1711: greghendershott: I used to do everything in a black terminal with green text to make me feel like a hacker.
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17:48 greghendershott: lewis1711: This has been such productivity boost for me: http://www.secretgeometry.com/apps/cathode/
17:50 mye: and I just learned my computer can say anything
17:51 soegaard: Cathode is free to use, but the picture will slowly degrade unless you purchase. Effects like static and flicker will increase over time until you relaunch the app.
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17:53 mye: I installed oh my zsh with the agnoster color theme yesterday, looks almost like star trek :] https://gist.github.com/3712874
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18:09 bremner: cute, but it seems it needs non-standard fonts
18:15 mye: bremner: yes, but I found that the patched font also looks a little less bold then regular menlo which I liked
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18:36 jonrafkind: what was that syntax thing that ryan demonstrated at racketcon which let you repeat sequences of syntax objects
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18:45 samth: jonrafkind: template
18:49 jonrafkind: hm its undocumented.. how do you use this thing
18:49 jonrafkind: oh actually im looking at the wrong thing
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18:50 jonrafkind: where is it? i thought it was syntax/template :p
18:50 jonrafkind: ah syntax/parse/experimental/template
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18:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bwQCCw
18:51 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 00827a1 Philippe Mechai: Fix language config dialog not showing when some languages are disabled
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19:47 ozzloy: why isn't (equal? (make-position-token ARGS) (make-position-token ARGS)) ?
19:48 mye: ozzloy: I think the answer is structs are generative
19:49 mye: that means they make new types and unless you specify how to compare them racket can't do it
19:49 ozzloy: oic
19:50 ozzloy: ok, better question
19:50 ozzloy: or ... call for help
19:50 ozzloy: i'm trying to understand the lexer and parser tools
19:50 ozzloy: i'm trying to write some unit tests to do that
19:50 ozzloy: i'll paste what i have, i guess
19:51 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
19:52 ozzloy: https://gist.github.com/4220959
19:53 ozzloy: line 51 is the place where i actually check-equal?
19:54 ozzloy: what's a better way to check the returned token?  i just tried checking the start and end position, but that doesn't work, probably for the same reason
19:54 ozzloy: this struct isn't something i wrote, so i can't add a way to check if they're equal.  or can i?
19:55 ozzloy: should i just write my own (position-tokens-equal? pt0 pt1) ?
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19:56 mye: ozzloy: you could do that, why do you need to compare the position info?
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19:58 ozzloy: i just want to write a test showing the expected position values
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19:58 ozzloy: that makes it really clear in context what lexer returns
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20:01 mye: ozzloy, use positon-token-token/start-pos/end-pos to access the token etc
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20:03 ozzloy: yep
20:03 ozzloy: mye, thanks
20:05 mye: ozzloy: https://gist.github.com/4221050 is an (unfinished) lexer I wrote, at the top of the LEXER TESTS you find a tokens function that helps with testing
20:06 mye: you could expand it maybe to check positions
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21:41 lewis1711: in many languages you can do something like this - "a, b, c = [1, 2, 3]". Is there an equivalent in racket? or would one need to write a macro?
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21:43 lewis1711: rudybot: (define-values (a b c) (apply values '(1 2 3)))
21:43 rudybot: lewis1711: your sandbox is ready
21:43 rudybot: lewis1711: Done.
21:43 lewis1711: rudybot: a
21:43 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: 1
21:43 lewis1711: =D
21:44 ozzloy: (define-values (a b c) (apply values '(1 2 3)))
21:45 ozzloy: rudybot, (define-values (a b c) (apply values '(1 2 3)))
21:45 rudybot: ozzloy: your sandbox is ready
21:45 rudybot: ozzloy: Done.
21:45 ozzloy: rudybot, a
21:45 rudybot: ozzloy: ; Value: 1
21:45 ozzloy: rudybot, b
21:45 rudybot: ozzloy: ; Value: 2
21:45 ozzloy: cool
21:45 didi likes `let-values'
21:46 lewis1711: I still don't get the difference between apply and let inside a procedure
21:46 lewis1711: *between 'define' and 'let'
21:46 didi: rudybot: (let-values (((a b c) (values 1 2 3))) a)
21:46 rudybot: didi: your sandbox is ready
21:46 rudybot: didi: ; Value: 1
21:48 didi: lewis1711: It's more about style. There are some potential difficulties with `define' if you do not use it at the beginning of your grand `define', but I don't know if Racket suffers from it.
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22:06 greghendershott: samth: Just FYI, I made a pull request adding Markdown render mode to Scribble. https://github.com/plt/racket/pull/187
22:09 lewis1711: didi: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Style/style/Choosing_the_Right_Construct.html#%28part._.Definitions%29 just going off that really
22:09 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7e4nqv9
22:11 didi: lewis1711: You see, I prefer `let'.
22:13 lewis1711: fair enough
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22:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kmoXhg
22:31 RacketCommitBot: racket/master fcc08fa Neil Toronto: Fixed bigfloats on Win64. Win64's long type is 32 bits and GMP's default is to...
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23:49 lewis1711: rudybot: (for/fold ([e '(0 -1 -2)] #:when (not (= e 0)))
23:49 lewis1711: ([init null]) (cons (+ x) init))
23:49 rudybot: lewis1711: for/fold should allow un-annotated variables
23:49 lewis1711: rudybot: (for/fold ([e '(0 -1 -2)] #:when (not (= e 0))) ([init null]) (cons (+ x) init))
23:49 rudybot: lewis1711: error: #<undefined>:1:0: for/fold: bad syntax in: (for/fold ((e (quote (0 -1 -2))) #:when (not (= e 0))) ((init null)) (cons (+ x) init))
23:53 tewk: rudybot: (for/fold ([init null]) ([e '(0 -1 -2)] #:when (not (= e 0))) (cons (+ x) init))
23:53 rudybot: tewk: your sandbox is ready
23:53 rudybot: tewk: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: x in module: 'program
23:53 tewk: rudybot: (for/fold ([init null]) ([e '(0 -1 -2)] #:when (not (= e 0))) (cons (+ e) init))
23:53 rudybot: tewk: ; Value: (-2 -1)
23:54 tewk: lewis1711: not sure what you're trying to do.
23:55 lewis1711: oh that's confusing. the initial value goes second in a foldr form
23:55 lewis1711: tewk: just a silly function to figure out how to use #:where over the list
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23:57 lewis1711: actually maybe I'm going around this the wrong way. I have a function that generates rectangles with some random parameters. and I need to generate a list, no longer than max-length, such that no two rectangles satisfy (overlapping? r1 r2)
23:57 (quit) mye: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
23:57 (nick) mye_ -> mye