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01:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/pXwvHg
01:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 05e7e61 Ryan Culpepper: added #:option to start-transaction, call-with-transaction
01:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 30397ac Ryan Culpepper: use exn:fail:sql for sqlite errors too
01:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8ec10d4 Ryan Culpepper: added doc section on transactions and concurrency
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07:42 epsil: ozzloy: When I said "Racket is awesome as a teaching language", I didn't mean to belittle the language. I actually meant it as a more profound compliment than that.
07:42 epsil: Please, give me a chance to clarify!
07:42 epsil: What strikes me about the language is how terse it is. There is a brevity and expressiveness to it that I've only encountered in a few other places.
07:42 epsil: It is difficult to put into words, but a handful of the "classical" programming texts are examples of what I mean: e.g., the K&R book about C, and of course SICP. They somehow manage to express very much with very little.
07:42 epsil: This is mostly NOT the case in general. Certainly, all computer languages have tasks at which they excel, but mostly it's in the form of syntactic shortcuts: here's some syntax for easily doing one task, and here is some more for doing another, and so on ...
07:42 epsil: Interestingly, Racket seems to possess the opposite kind of elegance: it manages to express a lot of concepts with as little syntax as possible.
07:42 epsil: That elegance is what makes SICP such a good book, in my opinion. You can pick up on the code examples right away, without having to sort through a lot of syntactic cruft to understand them. The book is really about abstract concepts, not code.
07:42 epsil: Likewise, it is easy to grow an implementation in Racket (like I do in my article). You can put something together as you damn well please, and then gradually refine it.
07:42 epsil: In short, Racket manages to include concepts from a whole lot of languages without becoming, well, Perl. :P
07:43 epsil: (End of rant)
07:43 lewis1711: post it on reddit. the world has too many python programmers
07:43 epsil: lewis1711: ha ha
07:44 epsil: I actually considered using Python for my project. I turned it down because I found it too constraining
07:45 mye: on the other hand, I feel like having invested the last year or so in python I'd probably be further or even done with my project.
07:45 mye: Racket really is big.
07:45 mye: (concept wise)
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07:47 lewis1711: I just find python tragic. but that's probably OT
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07:50 mye: lewis1711: I really don't like it either, that's why I switched to racket. But not being decided costs me a lot of back and forth
07:50 mye: *cost
07:50 lewis1711: my goal in life is to convince reddit of this :)
07:54 mye: maybe it is the programming language that chooses the programmer not the other way. :0)
07:56 lewis1711: I went out into the desert and fasted for 9 days, seeking a sign from the programming god. then on the 10th I saw two bits of cloud that looked like parentheses and knew my search was at an end.
07:56 bremner: so, Common Lisp?
07:56 bremner: or, maybe Emacs Lisp?
07:56 bremner: ooh, ooh, NEWLISP!
07:57 lewis1711: actually it was just the end of a C function call :(
08:20 Cryovat: mye: You imply that Racket has sentience :o
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09:14 dca-: newlisp? that thing without proper closures?
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10:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1pt4-g
10:29 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 7b3bb4a Matthew Flatt: make `splicing-syntax-parameterize' work with `begin-for-syntax'...
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11:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mjDv-Q
11:12 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 17c3203 Robby Findler: the test case should have been checking for 6 builds all along....
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11:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/UUGDCA
11:18 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 5470899 Ryan Culpepper: fix shadowing (caused unwanted state threading)...
11:18 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 27e9988 Ryan Culpepper: fix hex conversion...
11:18 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e8ebb38 Ryan Culpepper: fixed doc bug
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12:39 ralu: i am running racket 5.2.1 and i am trying to install lang plai-typed, but command as @https://github.com/mflatt/plai-typed/blob/master/README.txt
12:40 ralu: i Have problem becuase i get error
12:40 ralu: when trying to run this lang
12:40 ralu: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found
12:42 ralu: should I install 5.3.1.5 ?
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12:55 ralu: i got it, i installed this manualy from pcl packet
12:56 ralu: *plt package
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13:31 soegaard: ralu: That version of plai-typed is an example of the new package system Planet 2. If you want to install it, you need one of the daily builds.
13:31 soegaard: http://pre.racket-lang.org/installers/
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14:01 soegaard: rudybot: (for/list ([x (sequence-fold list  0 '(1 2 3))]) x)
14:01 rudybot: soegaard: your sandbox is ready
14:01 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: (((0 1) 2) 3)
14:02 soegaard: rudybot: (for/list ([x (sequence-fold + 0 '(1 2 3))]) x)
14:02 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5)
14:02 soegaard: Hmm.
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14:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dtFUzQ
14:47 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f5efc03 Robby Findler: fix color prefs saving to use alpha...
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15:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/iXhnXw
15:50 RacketCommitBot: racket/master cc0a105 Robby Findler: another attempt to avoid building rectangles...
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16:47 shriphani: hi everyone. I am using the dvanhorn's fector package and I have a question. So I (fector-set a0 1 7) never seems to return. Can someone confirm this? Am I doing something wrong ?
16:47 soegaard: shriphani: Do you have a complete example?
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16:49 shriphani: soegaard: one second I'll pastebin it
16:50 shriphani: soegaard: http://pastebin.ca/2262333
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16:51 shriphani: that last call never terminates
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16:54 soegaard: I get #<box> as result.
16:55 shriphani: ....
16:55 shriphani: my call here hasn't terminated at all...
16:55 soegaard: Which version of racket do you use?
16:56 shriphani: is there a way to check at the repl ?
16:56 shriphani: 5.2.1
16:56 shriphani: is what I get when I run (version)
16:56 soegaard: That's fairly recent.
16:58 soegaard: Without knowing anything about the cause, I'd suggest trying 5.3.1.
16:58 shriphani: is there a way to upgrade from the repl ?
16:58 dca-: serious question: how easy is to call C++ code from racket ?
16:58 soegaard: Just download and install the new version.
16:58 shriphani: soegaard: right.
17:01 soegaard: dca-: Haven't worked much with C++ but it is easy to use C code.
17:02 dca-: but what about C++ name mangling ?
17:02 dca-: _func1BLABLABLA() ?
17:04 soegaard: Don't know. What would you do, if if had to call C++ code from C?
17:06 dca-: don't even know. it's possible to call _func1BLABLABLA and hand over opaque pointer to *this as first argument
17:09 shriphani: soegaard: yes 5.3.1 fixes my issues. thank you.
17:10 soegaard: Without knowing for sure, I think you can call the C++ functions the same way you would call them from C. If that doesn't work, write a short C function that calls the C++ one, and then call the C function from Racket.
17:10 soegaard: shriphani: great
17:10 dca-: yeah i think writing C thunk interface should work
17:11 dca-: i am particularly interested in box2d physics engine
17:11 dca-: seems that python bindings do exist for it
17:11 soegaard: Then you can probably copy their approach.
17:13 dca-: ok
17:13 dca-: thx
17:16 soegaard: dca-: Another option is to extend the chipmunk bindings: https://github.com/Freezerburn/Rhipmunk-Physics
17:16 soegaard: But binding for either box2d or chipmunk would be great to have.
17:18 dca-: soegaard: oh, that's great
17:18 soegaard: I don't think the bindings are finished, but it might be easier than starting from scratch.
17:20 dca-: that's true
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17:34 dca-: ffi-obj: couldn't get "_cpSpaceGetIterations" from "libchipmunk.so" (/usr/lib/libchipmunk.so: undefined symbol: _cpSpaceGetIterations)
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17:44 soegaard: That sounds like a version problem.
17:45 dca-: the last update to that bindings were 6 months ago
17:45 soegaard: I was thinking of the version of the libchipmunk.
17:46 dca-: right, that symbol isn't present at libchipmunk.so
17:46 soegaard: Is SpaceGetIterations mentioned in the latest Chipmunk documentation?
17:47 dca-: it is there yes: http://chipmunk-physics.net/release/ChipmunkLatest-Docs/#cpSpace-Iterations
17:47 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/boh2dwq
17:50 dca-: but that function isn't defined in includes either
17:51 soegaard: Maybe the wrong version of the libchipmunk is being loaded?
17:51 dca-: i've got chipmunk 5.3.4 installed
17:52 dca-: the docs mention version 5.3
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17:52 dca-: that git repo contained mychipmunk.dll
17:54 soegaard: That's actually nice. (To include a copy of the library with the bindtings.)
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17:55 dca-: true
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18:22 bartbes: soegaard: you can actually only (reliably) call c++ symbols from c when defined with 'extern "C"', which disables name mangling
18:23 bartbes: (same goes for when you want to call c from c++, you should have their definition surrounded by extern "C" too
18:23 bartbes: )
18:23 soegaard: Thanks. Good tip.
18:24 dca-: right.
18:24 dca-: so the only viable option of interfacing C++ code with class stuff is writing C++ wrapper which extern "C"-s wrapper functions
18:25 bartbes: I can't help but think there has to be a way to name mangle for your platform
18:25 bartbes: I mean, ld knows how to find things compiled with different compilers, therefore they have to mangle the same/similarly
18:25 bartbes: therefore there has to be some mangling spec or lib
18:25 bartbes: and it's not just gcc, since clang is compatible
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18:47 shriphani: Hi guys. Is there a way to work with raw bits in racket? i.e. can I have a data-structure like an array of bits?
18:55 (part) r0p
19:00 dca: shriphani: racket has bitwise ops defined on integers
19:00 dca: rudybot: (bitwise-xor 1 5)
19:00 rudybot: dca: your sandbox is ready
19:00 rudybot: dca: ; Value: 4
19:02 dca: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/generic-numbers.html#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._bitwise-bit-field%29%29
19:02 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/c6ytxuf
19:03 ijp: There are byte strings, but no bit strings IIRC
19:05 ijp: writing a bitstring type using the bytestring type should be pretty easy though
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23:25 lewis1711: I have a very silly question. A few days ago I sent a message to the users mailing list. I subscribed there a couple of years back. but it hasn't shown up. I just addressed an email to "users@racket-lang.org"
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23:34 dyoo: did you see any acknowledgement coming back saying that the message was being held?
23:34 asumu: lewis1711: could've been caught in the moderation queue. Also, the mailing list was a bit screwy the last two days. (messages out of order or delayed quite a bit)
23:35 lewis1711: dyoo: I did not. I'll give the list another search
23:36 lewis1711: not there (I used the google group search). beats me
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23:47 raphie: I'm a bit confused about values -- is there a sort of "first" function?
23:47 dyoo: raphie: where are you having multiple values being sent to you?
23:48 raphie: like, returning (values 'foo 'bar)
23:48 dyoo: Usually, I capture the values using define-values
23:48 dyoo: example: (define-values (x y) (values 'foo 'bar))
23:48 grettke: or let-values
23:48 dyoo: If you really don't know up front how many values are coming in, you can use call-with-values
23:48 raphie: yeah, I've been using let-values
23:49 dyoo: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/values.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._call-with-values))
23:49 dyoo: For example:
23:49 raphie: for example, I have a pair of two values that I'd like to combine with a third value
23:49 raphie: as in, (values 'a 'b) and 'c make (values 'a 'b 'c)
23:50 raphie: must I really write (let-values ([(a b) foo]) (values a b 'c)) where foo is (values 'a 'b) ?
23:50 dyoo: give me a sec...
23:50 dyoo: https://gist.github.com/4187010
23:51 raphie: or one could generalize it to any list operation!
23:52 grettke: raphie here are the top 3: http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/link/1794/returning-multiple-values-in-scheme
23:52 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/cwclmqw
23:52 dyoo: the example in the gist should generalize, since the second function in call-with-values is free to take all the values, do list stuff, etc.
23:53 dyoo: But typically, I'm using values when I know the number of values up front: if I need something that's vararity, then I start using explicit lists.
23:53 raphie: but my problem is more around clean value insertion
23:53 raphie: because right now I have  (let-values ([(a b) foo]) (values a b 'c)) where foo is (values 'a 'b) to make (values 'a 'b 'c)
23:54 raphie: I simply want to append 'c to the values
23:54 dyoo: Hmmm… how about:
23:54 dyoo: (call-with-values (lambda () foo) (lambda args (append args (list 'c)))) ?
23:55 grettke: dyoo how is wescheme going?
23:55 dyoo: It's not the prettiest code in the world, mind you.  :)
23:55 raphie: I think the previous code is shorter, haha
23:55 raphie: but thank you
23:55 dyoo: grettke: I'd been busy doing some data structure work unrelated to wescheme
23:55 raphie: embarking on a compiler project is making me learn much more of the language than, say, writing little games using racket/universe
23:56 grettke: dyoo: What for?
23:56 dyoo: I wanted to help make DrRacket faster
23:56 dyoo: Unfortunately, it turned out not to help… :(
23:56 dyoo: Still, I learned a lot about rb trees.  It hilariously helped out during my phone interview with Google, since the interview questions were all tree-traversal algorithm stuff.  :)
23:57 raphie: dyoo: any idea why DrRacket takes up so very much memory?
23:57 dyoo: raphie: I've been trying to find out.
23:58 raphie: yay, it's my biggest issue with the IDE
23:58 dyoo: grettke: here's the thing I was hacking on for about a week: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/red-black/index.html
23:58 grettke: dyoo: Would be expected to be an expert on all of that ?