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00:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Fm5CpQ
00:30 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4af72a5 Robby Findler: add a little more info into the build-rectangle check for when it fails
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00:54 sw2wolf: What's match-define ?
00:54 sw2wolf: (match-define
00:54 sw2wolf: (XButtonEvent type serial send-event display window root subwindow
00:54 sw2wolf: time x y x-root y-root modifiers button same-screen)
00:54 sw2wolf: event)
00:55 ewemoa: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/match.html?q=match-define#%28form._%28%28lib._racket/match..rkt%29._match-define%29%29 ?
00:55 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/c33gpld
00:55 ewemoa: "Defines the names bound by pat to the values produced by matching against the result of expr."
00:56 sw2wolf: thx
00:56 ewemoa: sure -- the match-* stuff is great
01:04 sw2wolf: In (XButtonEvent type serial send-event displa ...), is XButtonEvent still called constructor in racket as  haskell does ?
01:06 ewemoa doesn't know
01:14 sw2wolf: What is the way for racketer to search document ? i.e. i want to know "for/and".
01:14 sw2wolf: The haskeller can use hoogle
01:15 jonrafkind: docs.racket-lang.org
01:16 jonrafkind: in that match-define expression XButtonEvent specifies the struct named by XButtonevent
01:16 jonrafkind: so yea i guess its a constructor
01:16 ewemoa finds this a bit buggy but handy for the most part: http://mycroft.mozdev.org/search-engines.html?name=racket
01:16 sw2wolf: thx
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02:31 lewis1711: neilv: protobj is nice, did you ever use it? :)
02:33 neilv: lewis1711: not that i recall
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02:42 lewis1711: hmm. I always thought prototypes would fit in well with scheme
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02:52 neilv: i was introduced to prototype model using the Self language and its morphs worlds (since adopted by Squeak), where a more ad hoc model than class-instance seemed to be reasonable
02:53 neilv: now, it's just an idea i keep in my mental toolbox, and occasionally do something like it for an application
02:53 ewemoa: it's everywhere now thanks to js though, right?
02:54 neilv: i think most people aren't aware of inheritance in js
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03:10 lewis1711: I was partially inspired to go down that road because I find rackets built in object system pretty weird
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03:21 neilv: it's funny how generics are sneaking into racket in the year 2012
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03:30 lewis1711: it'd be funnier if it was documented in "guide" so peons like me could understand :)
03:32 neilv: if you're doing a practical object system, you might want to look at it eventually
03:49 lewis1711: I'm using hash tables as the basis, not structs. IDK, I will try and make a game with the object system I made and hopefully its shortcomings will become obvious. It's really quite impressive what you can do with macros and lambdas though
03:51 neilv: you might want to wrap your hash in a struct. you can attach properties to structs that affect racket behavior (e.g., for printing, for applying as a procedure) that i don't know that you can do with hashes alone
03:51 neilv: just keep it in mind
03:52 neilv: structs also let you hide data, if you want to
03:54 lewis1711: http://pastebin.com/r9EhkSVj yeah that's effectively what I did
03:54 neilv: will look in a few minutes. releasing a package
03:56 lewis1711: http://pastebin.com/YS3VMLbg here's the whole thing. I completely lifted your short hand naming scheme (!, ^, @)
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04:19 neilv: lewis1711: neat
04:23 lewis1711: thanks. it's probably badly inefficient, but I'll cross that road when I come to it
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06:41 neilv: i wonder whether i can use "get-all-planet-packages" and some of the namespace tools to figure out which planet packages the current racket program is using
06:51 neilv: bbiab
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09:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/eelx8Q
09:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 028d14a Jens Axel Søgaard: Initial import of bit-vectors
09:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4ed45a6 Matthew Flatt: data/bit-vector: some adjustments for consistency...
09:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 054a52f Matthew Flatt: data/bit-vector: change implementation to fxvectors...
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10:17 grrossi: Hey, a question
10:17 grrossi: Why is "cond: all question results were false" an error? Can't a cond do nothing?
10:18 (quit) lewis1711: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
10:23 asumu: grrossi: a cond can do nothing if you put an 'else' clause that does nothing.
10:24 grrossi: [else ()] ?
10:24 grrossi: or [else #f]?
10:24 asumu: That depends on what you want to return. You could do [else (void)]
10:25 asumu: Also, what language are you using?
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10:26 asumu: Empty conds or conds with no matching clauses work fine for me.
10:26 asumu: rudybot: (cond)
10:26 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
10:26 rudybot: asumu: Done.
10:26 grrossi: racket
10:26 asumu: rudybot: (cond [#f 'unreachable])
10:26 rudybot: asumu: Done.
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10:26 grrossi: htdp-advanced-reader
10:26 asumu: That's why. That's a teaching language intended for students.
10:27 asumu: It gives more strict error messages.
10:27 grrossi: Well, i'm a student
10:27 grrossi: What language is the "default" ?
10:28 asumu: #lang racket is the default for "professional" programming, so to speak.
10:29 asumu: The reason why the teaching languages errors on that is because the HtDP book encourages you to write functions that cover all possible cases in your data definitions.
10:30 grrossi: I guess it makes sense
10:32 grrossi: asumu: hey, talking about pro programming..
10:32 grrossi: This is my first time using lisp, i used to work with lua and c++, and in some other place java
10:33 grrossi: Where is lisp used?
10:33 asumu: Well, just yesterday I saw a hiring ad for Boeing looking for Racket programmers.
10:33 grrossi: I mean, what type of projects can i get in using lisp?
10:34 asumu: It's been used for game development (Naughty Dog), for scientific simulations, etc.
10:35 asumu: Google (with its acquisition of ITA software) also uses Common Lisp now.
10:36 grrossi: That's interesting, i really like the thought process of lisp
10:37 grrossi: The only thing that is bugging my is the indentation
10:37 asumu: Why?
10:39 grrossi: Lost in Several Parentheses
10:39 asumu: If you're using DrRacket, it highlights parenthesis matching.
10:40 grrossi: Yeah, but still, ending a line with ))))))))) bugs me
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10:41 asumu: Not much you can do about that, short of using one of the alternative syntaxes.
10:42 asumu: I don't see )))) being that big a deal. In Java you'd still }}}} for highly nested blocks.
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10:42 asumu: (on separate lines though)
10:44 grrossi: It's not the several parentheses in itself, is the indentation.
10:44 grrossi: Look
10:44 grrossi: http://pastie.org/5443069]
10:44 grrossi: 2 times the same function
10:44 grrossi: one with normal lisp indentation, one with c++ indentation
10:44 grrossi: That's what bugs me
10:56 francisl: Hi, I have and exception : expected: (or/c string? bytes? path? input-port?)
10:56 francisl: ;   given: #<eof>
10:56 francisl: how do I check #<eof>
10:57 francisl: (if (equal? #<eof>) throw an error
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10:57 asumu: rudybot: (eof-object? eof)
10:57 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #t
10:57 asumu: francisl: ^
10:58 francisl: thanks, is this an instance?
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11:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 15 new commits to master: http://git.io/87wTbA
11:25 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 1b4ebef Danny Yoo: file/sha1: fix problem with leading zeros...
11:25 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 45bdaa1 Samuel Bronson: scribble/racket.css: Avoid excessive line-height in some cases...
11:25 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 11df3f9 Samuel Bronson: scribble/html-render: Fix typo in error message
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11:40 asumu: francisl: what do you mean? Is #<eof> an eof-object, you mean?
11:43 francisl: asumu: no, I want to understand why it is called an object?
11:44 asumu: Oh, I'm not sure why. Possibly to avoid confusion with a function that checks if a port is at the end of file, for example.
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11:49 asumu: Mostly it's just inherited from Scheme, actually. The Scheme standard back to R2RS specifies an `eof-object?` function.
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11:52 francisl: ok, so it has nothing to do with the class/object system
11:52 asumu: No, "object" here really just means "value"
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12:21 grrossi: Hey, why do i have to use 2 parentheses to define a function inside (local)?
12:21 grrossi: rudybot: (local (define (a x) (+ x 1))
12:21 rudybot: grrossi: just try to write a little elisp function to rename a local variable without cedet :)
12:22 grrossi: rudybot: (local (define (a x) (+ x 1)))
12:22 rudybot: grrossi: your sandbox is ready
12:22 rudybot: grrossi: error: #<undefined>:1:0: local: bad syntax in: (local (define (a x) (+ x 1)))
12:22 grrossi: rudybot: (local ((define (a x) (+ x 1))))
12:22 rudybot: grrossi: error: #<undefined>:1:0: local: bad syntax in: (local ((define (a x) (+ x 1))))
12:23 grrossi: :(
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12:28 ijp: grrossi: local needs a body
12:28 ijp: grrossi: and the reason you have two sets of parentheses, is because you can have multiple definitions in one local
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12:29 ijp: rudybot: eval (local ((define (plus-one x) (+ x 1)) (define y 2)) (plus-one y))
12:29 rudybot: ijp: your sandbox is ready
12:29 rudybot: ijp: ; Value: 3
12:30 grrossi: Oh, i guess i get it
12:30 grrossi: tt
12:30 grrossi: ty
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14:20 Agent-P: Hello
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14:26 Agent-P: I try to use the map function to "sum" the price of something "in a list of items" with another list of number containing the Symbol and the price ... Example ... : My "listof_items" list contains : 'Book 59.87 and my "listof_numbers" contains 'Book 0.07 ... and I want to have a new list containing  'Book 59,94
14:26 asumu: Agent-P: It's difficult to sum with map. You probably want a fold.
14:27 Agent-P: no I actually need to do it with map !
14:27 Blkt: good evening everyone
14:28 Agent-P: Good Evening Blkt
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14:32 stamourv: Agent-P: `map' takes lists to lists.
14:33 stamourv: If you want to sum, you want to take a list to a number.
14:33 stamourv: So `map' can't be what you want.
14:34 Agent-P: samourv ... I'll try to concentrate more and do it then I'll give u my code, then u can tell me if there is something wrong :))
14:34 stamourv: Ok.
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14:36 Blkt: Agent-P: :)
15:06 Agent-P: just finished it :
15:06 Agent-P: http://pastebin.com/f7TUVA6p
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15:12 stamourv: Agent-P: Oh, my bad, I misread your question.
15:13 stamourv: I thought you wanted to sum the elements of the list together.
15:13 Agent-P: samourv no it was my fault .. I asked the wrong question ...
15:14 stamourv: But hey, it works, that's the important part. :)
15:15 (join) danl-ndi
15:15 Agent-P: Yep that's the good part :D But it isn't over :D
15:16 danl-ndi: is there a way to do a read-syntax in an environment devoid of bindings...?
15:16 Agent-P: studying in Germany is like studying Philosophy ... you think about everything but at the end u musst prove one thing !
15:19 stamourv: rudybot: (define foo (with-input-from-string "+" (lambda () (parameterize ([current-namespace (make-empty-namespace)]) (read-syntax)))))
15:19 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
15:19 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
15:19 stamourv: rudybot: foo
15:19 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #<syntax::1 +>
15:19 stamourv: rudybot: (syntax-local-value foo)
15:19 rudybot: stamourv: error: syntax-local-value: not currently transforming
15:19 stamourv: danl-ndi: The above may do what you want.
15:19 stamourv: Agent-P: What do you mean?
15:19 danl-ndi: stamourv: yeah that looks like what I'm going for... thanks
15:20 stamourv doesn't know much about the German education system.
15:20 Agent-P: hhhh
15:21 Agent-P: Es geht um die Sprache ... If you can't understand what do you have to do .. you'll do false things ..
15:21 Agent-P: and My German is really bad :D
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15:23 sanctus: bnfkju
15:23 soegaard: gesundheit
15:24 Agent-P: hhhhhhhh
15:24 Agent-P: I go to eat :D I'm HUNGRY :D brb
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15:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/y1FnrA
15:44 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 2d34811 Neil Toronto: Finished `math/distributions' documentation!...
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16:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/sfqVog
16:11 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 64f64a3 Jens Axel Søgaard: Added bit-vector-count
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16:12 asumu: Oh hey, we have "popcount" now.
16:13 jonrafkind: whats that
16:13 asumu: The function 64f64a3 just added.
16:13 asumu: http://wiki.cs.pdx.edu/forge/popcount.html
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16:15 jonrafkind: im impressed this is useful
16:15 asumu: It's used to implement, for example, fast hash array mapped tries (a persistent data structure).
16:20 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving.
16:22 asumu: Also neat is how many algorithms there are for it: http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Population+Count
16:24 soegaard: Thanks for the reference.
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16:57 soegaard: Would it make sense to include fxpopcount in racket/fixnum ?
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17:32 rindolf: Hi all.
17:32 rindolf: Yay! I'm the 100th participant.
17:33 jonrafkind: did you win a new car?
17:35 rindolf: jonrafkind: a virtual one maybe - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=Sjors-virtual-money .
17:36 rindolf: jonrafkind: reminds me of that British romantic comedy with "You are the millionth person to fly this line this year, so we give you an upgrade to First Class."
17:37 rindolf: Anyway, maybe I'll learn Racket as a new programming language. I learned Scheme once upon a time, but only mostly SICPish Scheme.
17:37 rindolf: Not REAL Scheme.
17:37 rindolf: And Racket is a bit more than Scheme.
17:38 rindolf: I keep running into issues when learning new programming languages.
17:38 rindolf: Maybe I'm getting old.
17:40 rindolf: jonrafkind: sorry to leave, but I need to restart my computer for the new dbus.
17:40 rindolf: jonrafkind: see you back in a bit.
17:40 (quit) rindolf: Quit: Leaving
17:40 jonrafkind: adios
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17:44 rindolf: Hi all. I'm back.
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18:00 rindolf: Hmm... racket does not have a built-in "foreach" loop.
18:01 stamourv: rindolf: It does. Several, in fact.
18:01 stamourv: rudybot: doc for
18:01 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/for.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt)._for))
18:02 stamourv: rudybot: doc for/fold
18:02 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/for.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt)._for%2Ffold))
18:02 stamourv: rudybot: doc for/list
18:02 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/for.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt)._for%2Flist))
18:02 stamourv: rudybot: doc for*
18:02 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/for.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt)._for*))
18:02 stamourv: You get the idea.
18:02 stamourv: All of these can iterate over any sequence, generically.
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18:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/NTg9Ug
18:04 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3e81924 Asumu Takikawa: Fix nav separator for Opera...
18:04 (part) RacketCommitBot
18:04 rindolf: stamourv: another thing - (print "\n") does not appear to give me a newline?
18:05 rindolf: stamourv: yes, I got that.
18:06 asumu: rudybot: (printf "~n")
18:06 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
18:06 rudybot: asumu: ; stdout: "\n"
18:07 asumu: Also, print is printing the literal string. What you really wanted was display.
18:07 asumu: rudybot: (display "\n")
18:07 rudybot: asumu: ; stdout: "\n"
18:07 asumu: rudybot: (print "\n")
18:07 rudybot: asumu: ; stdout: "\"\\n\""
18:10 samth: soegaard, yes, it would
18:10 samth: soegaard, i think that intel even has an instruction for it
18:11 samth: does anyone here know too much about CSS & table layout?
18:11 samth: gf3, ^
18:11 gf3: Hola
18:11 gf3: samth: How can I help?
18:12 samth: gf3, i have some tables that render different in "almost standards mode" and in "standards mode"
18:12 samth: where by "i" I mean "the Racket docs"
18:12 samth: but they don't have images in them
18:12 samth: and i'm trying to figure out why they're different so that we can use standards mode
18:13 samth: example: all the tables at http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/generic-numbers.html
18:13 gf3: samth: Do you know what's triggering the non-standards mode?
18:14 asumu: samth: SSE4 has a popcnt instruction, but apparently good software techniques + SSE3 is faster.
18:14 samth: gf3, non-standards mode is being intentionally triggered to get the table layout behavior
18:14 (quit) soegaard: Quit: soegaard
18:14 gf3: samth: Oh I see
18:14 rindolf: My first Racket program: https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/shlomif-racket-playground/src/23d0d23223c4b34e2d5c8a0d1139a1922d1d1311/shlomif-racket-playground/test1.rkt?at=default - \o/
18:14 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/bwdbwo2
18:14 samth: i'd like to stop doing this, but first I have to understand what's going on
18:15 samth: and everything about almost-standards mode on the web just talks about imges
18:15 samth: *images
18:15 gf3: samth: Also, do they need to be tables?
18:15 samth: gf3, no, they don't, but that would be a much much bigger change to Scribble output
18:15 gf3: samth: I know most code highlighters simply use a <pre> with <span>s inside
18:16 rindolf: BTW, does Racket has any bridges to perl 5 (for CPAN), to python (for PyPI/etc.) or to MRI (for Rubygems)?
18:16 samth: gf3, the tables are for the rows, not the columns
18:17 gf3: samth: Right, but these days it's possible to do that with CSS alone
18:17 samth: gf3, indeed
18:17 gf3: samth: I'll have a look
18:17 samth: i hope we can eventually get there
18:17 samth: gf3, note that the page is current in quirks mode
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18:18 samth: but the rendering is the same (afaict) in quirks and almost-standards
18:18 samth: gf3, thanks
18:19 samth: sadly the set of people who both know a lot about page layout and work on Racket is small
18:20 gf3: samth: BTW which browser are you using?
18:20 samth: gf3, the extra space in standards mode appears in both FF and Chrome
18:25 rindolf: Why isn't there a built-in deg2rad? Or is it spelled deg->rad?
18:26 rindolf thinks guessing identifiers is fun. ;-)
18:27 rindolf: Well, it's not spelt deg->rad either.
18:27 jonrafkind: degrees->radians
18:27 samth wishes that browsers had a "why is this the specified height" debugger
18:28 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
18:31 rindolf: http://paste.debian.net/212881/ ==> I'm getting this which seems to contradict the documentation.
18:31 rindolf: jonrafkind: thanks.
18:32 rindolf: jonrafkind: degrees->radians is kinda long, though. :-(
18:32 rindolf: I guess I can set up an alias.
18:32 jonrafkind: (define d degrees->radians)
18:32 rindolf: jonrafkind: yes, I know.
18:35 rindolf: Any idea about that rotate problem?
18:35 gf3: samth: Looks like line-height on `.RktBlk td` should do the trick
18:36 samth: gf3, what should i set line-height to?
18:36 gf3: samth: I set the page to standards mode (using the HTML5 doctype) adjusted the line height to 16px and the code samples looked normal
18:37 gf3: samth: You could optionally scope that to `.SCodeFlow .RktBlk td`
18:39 samth: gf3, that gets closer, but it's not quite the same, i think
18:39 gf3: Are you still seeing additional space?
18:39 samth: yes
18:39 samth: (in chrome)
18:40 samth: (and in FF)
18:41 samth: gf3, 15px mostly gets it to be the same
18:41 rindolf: Anyone?
18:41 gf3: samth: Excellent
18:41 samth: but i'd like to find something that doesn't require specifying absolute sizes
18:41 samth: still have to figure out what the change to the left-hand side TOC table is
18:42 gf3: samth: Do you have a demo of a page in strict mode?
18:42 gf3: samth: I've just been using JSFiddle
18:42 samth: gf3, i've just been copying/editing my local racket docs
18:43 gf3: Mmm
18:43 gf3: I just want to ensure we're looking at the same thing
18:43 gf3: I'll clone it on my work machine
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18:47 samth: gf3, changing the line height seems to be affecting the font size
18:51 gf3: samth: Looks like there's not default line height set
18:51 gf3: On body or html
18:51 samth: gf3, yeah
18:52 gf3: samth: Or even font size
18:53 samth: the following seems to be quite close:
18:53 gf3: samth: I'd say localising it to code listings and the sidebar is a good temporary solution until the markup/styles can be overhauled
18:53 samth: .RktBlk td {
18:53 samth: line-height: 0.85;
18:53 samth: }
18:53 samth: .tocsublist td {
18:53 samth: line-height: 0.85;
18:53 samth: }
18:54 gf3: FWIW all modern browsers can scale absolute values (i.e. pixels)
18:54 samth: yes
18:55 samth: so the 0.85 change modifies some of the other spacing, in weird ways
18:55 samth: just a little tiny bit
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18:57 rindolf: Hi all, why doesn't this program (which I expect to be broken slightly) does not draw anything - https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/shlomif-racket-playground/src/12953a67831ab359f8bf9a3368ad6638f82a4014/shlomif-racket-playground/squares-inside-squares.rkt?at=default ?
18:57 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/bn8f7vu
18:57 rindolf: rudybot: hi
18:57 rudybot: rindolf: hi all, can i somehow prefix two subsequent keystrokes with the universal argument (repeating them)
18:57 rindolf: Heh.
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19:08 rindolf: Nisstyre: hi.
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19:10 asumu: rindolf: slideshow provides functional drawing where you produce "pict" values.
19:11 asumu: `rectangle` does not draw anything. It produces a pict value.
19:11 rindolf: asumu: OK.
19:11 asumu: Look at the slideshow docs for examples http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/slideshow/Basic_Pict_Constructors.html?q=slideshow/pict
19:11 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/d9qecb8
19:11 rindolf: asumu: so how can I either: 1. Display the rotated docs? 2. Rotate the entire active canvas?
19:13 lewis1711: racket needs a permutations procedure, but I'm afraid to ask for help because people will insist it's a homework question. which will make me sad because I will never attend an institution that will teach lisp
19:13 asumu: Picts are drawn automatically by DrRacket if an expression produces one. You could also look at functions like show-pict, pict->bitmap, draw-pict, etc.
19:14 rindolf: lewis1711: I have a permutation procedure code in Perl 5 and Haskell if you're interested.
19:14 rindolf: lewis1711: a functional one too.
19:14 Nisstyre: lewis1711: here's one I wrote for fun in Haskell: (I was trying to come up with it without looking up the algorithm) https://gist.github.com/3991563
19:14 Nisstyre: it's a simple divide and conquer-ish algorithm
19:15 lewis1711: Nisstyre: thanks, will check it out. rindolf yeah I'd be interested in the haskell version
19:15 Nisstyre: lewis1711: you could probably simplify the base case on mine
19:15 samth: aaaugh, nesting tables!
19:16 rindolf: lewis1711: OK, let me see.
19:16 rindolf: lewis1711: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2002-June/003121.html - also see the answers.
19:17 lewis1711: Nisstyre: are those nested list comprehensions in dlists?
19:17 Nisstyre: lewis1711: yes
19:17 Nisstyre: lewis1711: you could also use \\ from the set library
19:17 Nisstyre: er, not the set library
19:18 Nisstyre: some list library I forget
19:18 Nisstyre: but it does the same thing anyway
19:18 Nisstyre: join flattens the list by one level
19:19 rindolf: lewis1711: I mean see the replies to the message.
19:19 samth: gf3, thanks for all your help, btw
19:19 Nisstyre: lewis1711: it's possible to translate this pretty much mechanically into Racket
19:20 gf3: samth: NP
19:20 lewis1711: yeah I often do that with haskell functions I find useful
19:20 gf3: samth: I have some ideas for a new default layout
19:21 samth: gf3, one problem for us is that racket is used in schools with "backwards" software
19:21 samth: so old-IE is important
19:22 gf3: samth: How old?
19:23 samth: gf3, unfortunately it's hard to tell
19:23 gf3: samth: Do you have analytics data?
19:23 samth: my attitude is that anyone using older than IE8 deserves what they get
19:23 samth: but other people don't have that attitude
19:23 samth: and we're worried about people who install racket, so we don't get any analyitcs
19:24 gf3: Ahh, okay
19:24 gf3: IE8 isn't too bad
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19:27 samth: gf3, i personally doubt that IE6/7 is widely used in middle/high schools these days
19:27 samth: but it's hard to know
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19:31 rindolf: asumu: I don't understand how I can draw a "pict" on a dc.
19:31 rindolf: asumu: or draw more than one pict.
19:31 rindolf: asumu: if I use (show-pict or (draw-pict) I get many windows.
19:31 asumu: rindolf: backing up a second, what are you trying to do?
19:32 asumu: If you're trying to compose multiple picts together, you'll want to look at the pict combiner functions in the docs.
19:32 rindolf: asumu: I'm trying to create an effect like that- http://www.shlomifish.org/MathVentures/bugs-in-square-mathml.xhtml
19:32 asumu: It may also help to read http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/index.html
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19:33 samth: gf3, frustratingly, the changes i've tried work differently in chrome and FF
19:33 asumu: rindolf: if it were me, I'd just use the `racket/draw` library to do that.
19:34 rindolf: asumu: OK.
19:34 asumu: (you can do it by composing rotated picts using cc-superimpose)
19:34 asumu: (but sometimes rotated picts have strange bounding boxes)
19:35 gf3: samth: I wouldn't sweat it too much, you're dealing with legacy code being run in a myriad of rendering engines and versions
19:35 samth: gf3, well, i wouldn't want to make this change if it made things worse
19:37 rindolf: asumu: OK, this is getting complicated, and I find it all counterintuitive (or at least not what I expect).
19:37 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
19:37 rindolf: asumu: just for the record, I have been programming for 25 years now, since I was 10 years old.
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20:00 rindolf: Nisstyre, asumu, everyone: how do I reload a file in drracket after I edited it and saved it in gvim (or a different editor)?
20:02 rindolf: Found it! File -> Revert.
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20:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QoOgOw
20:06 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6f1ffec Neil Toronto: Stubbed out missing `math/array' and `math/statistics' doc entries to...
20:06 (part) RacketCommitBot
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20:17 rindolf: OK, why does the image in the screenshot looks so bad? http://www.shlomifish.org/Files/files/code/drracket.png - it is better with lower degrees.
20:20 (quit) Kaylin: Read error: Connection reset by peer
20:20 rindolf: What's the equivalent of Unix's seq in Racket? I cannot find it by googling.
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20:27 (quit) mizu_no_oto: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
20:28 sw2wolf: What's Unix's seq ?
20:29 rindolf: Found it (for/list ([i (in-range 1 20)]) i)
20:29 rindolf: sw2wolf: it generates a sequence of integers.
20:29 rindolf: Like seq 1 3 would be 1\n2\n3\n
20:29 jrslepak: rudybot: (sequence->list (in-range 1 20))
20:29 rudybot: jrslepak: your sandbox is ready
20:29 rudybot: jrslepak: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19)
20:29 sw2wolf: i see
20:30 jrslepak: or use stream->list
20:32 jrslepak: or if a stream is ok for what you need, you can just use in-range
20:33 sw2wolf: -> ,exit
20:33 sw2wolf: put-preferences: some other process has the preference-file lock, as indicated by the exi
20:33 sw2wolf: stence of the lock file: #<path:/home/sw2wolf/.racket/.LOCKracket-prefs.rktd>
20:34 sw2wolf: Why cannot i exit racket ?
20:36 sw2wolf: i have to remove the LOCK* file manually, then it is ok
20:37 rindolf: I found out what the problem was - I needed to make sure everything is centred.
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20:39 rindolf: https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/shlomif-racket-playground/src/ae3535e363b7b930272d29f50c86f1b08a5a1db7/shlomif-racket-playground/squares-inside-squares.rkt?at=default - working finally.
20:39 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/cy7knty
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20:43 rindolf: BTW, personally, I'm not sure I like the fact that scale is (scale pict factorx factory) - seems like (scale factorx factory pict) would be better especially given the fact that the pict expression can be complex.
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20:59 rindolf: https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/shlomif-racket-playground/src/15bc3dd5f06ae473067e578674096066d083ccc2/shlomif-racket-playground/squares-inside-squares.rkt?at=default - can anyone think of a better way to write that foldl+cons+etc. thing?
20:59 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/crjq4u7
21:00 rindolf: Without defining my own recursive list-processing function?
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21:20 rindolf: Nisstyre: any idea?
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21:40 Nisstyre: rindolf: well for starters you can use compose to create some of your functions
21:40 Nisstyre: define them separately I mean
21:40 rindolf: Nisstyre: OK.
21:40 rindolf: Nisstyre: ah.
21:41 rindolf: Nisstyre: well, I was talking of creating a list of (list b (x b) (x (x b)) (x (x (x b))) ...
21:41 rindolf: Something like that.
21:41 Nisstyre: rindolf: you mean where each one applies the function successively once more?
21:41 rindolf: The reduce+cons scheme seems like an anti-pattern to me.
21:42 Nisstyre: in Haskell I'd do something like "iterate (.foo) id"
21:42 Nisstyre: in racket that would be (assuming iterate is defined) (iterate ((curry compose) foo) identity)
21:44 (quit) SunMoonStar: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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21:46 rindolf: Hmmm.....
21:46 rindolf: Nisstyre: how can I define (iterate)?
21:46 rindolf: Well, maybe I'll write my own function.
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21:54 rindolf: Wow, drracket consumes over 21% of my RAM now. :-(
21:54 rindolf: I have 3 GB of RAM and I'm on a x86-64 OS.
21:54 rindolf: Linux.
21:55 sw2wolf: so i use racket other than DrRacket :0
21:56 sw2wolf: I only have 512MB RAM :)
21:56 sw2wolf: on an old box
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22:00 Nisstyre: rindolf: http://ideone.com/CO8zJ6
22:00 Nisstyre: sorry it took so long I accidentally ran it with 20 and it froze
22:01 Nisstyre: you could do it with streams and avoid the n parameters but it would be slightly more complicated
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22:05 Nisstyre: actually I don't think that implementation is correct
22:05 rindolf: Nisstyre: oh. :-(
22:06 rindolf: Nisstyre: well, I also think it's too much abstraction.
22:06 rindolf: It's 05:06 here - been up since 09:00ish.
22:06 rindolf: Of yesterday.
22:06 rindolf: Racket Racks my world. ;-)
22:08 SunMoonStar: is it easy to use racket on emacs or should I stick with drracket
22:10 rindolf: SunMoonStar: did you try http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/Emacs.html ?
22:10 SunMoonStar: rindolf: not yet, wanted to get subjective opinion first
22:10 SunMoonStar: is it good?
22:11 SunMoonStar: guess i'll just try it :)
22:11 rindolf: SunMoonStar: I'm not using Emacs.
22:11 rindolf: SunMoonStar: nor do I like Emacs too much.
22:12 rindolf: SunMoonStar: and I'm just getting started with Racket (though I've learned Scheme from SICP/etc. in the past).
22:12 sw2wolf: oh, i cannot live without emacs ;)
22:12 rindolf: SunMoonStar: here is what I have so far - https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/shlomif-racket-playground/src/f96b10deb21b588d8918e1bd2190580a9f802830/shlomif-racket-playground?at=default
22:12 rindolf: sw2wolf: I cannot live with it.
22:12 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/bsxv2wl
22:13 sw2wolf: haha
22:13 rindolf is listening to 
22:13 rindolf: Bleh.
22:13 sw2wolf: lol
22:13 rindolf is listening to U2 - With or Without You.
22:13 rindolf: Great song.
22:14 rindolf: With or Without Emacs.
22:14 rindolf: I have yet to try Emacs' EVIL mode - maybe I'll like it
22:14 (quit) Demosthenex: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
22:14 rindolf: But it does not support vimscript or most of Vim's plugins.
22:14 sw2wolf: i suggest using emcas own mode
22:15 sw2wolf: emacs is great for a lisper
22:15 rindolf: sw2wolf: I'm not an ardent lisper.
22:15 (quit) SunMoonStar: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
22:15 rindolf: sw2wolf: and Nisstyre told me that not all Racketeers are as obsessed about Emacs as CLers are.
22:16 sw2wolf: really! i am a racket newbie
22:17 sw2wolf: i am using CL for many years
22:18 sw2wolf: Anyway i feel racket is a great Scheme implementation + its own extensitions
22:18 rindolf: sw2wolf: yes.
22:19 rindolf: sw2wolf: coming from a Perl background and other stuff like that, I found a lot of stuff counterintuitive.
22:19 rindolf: sw2wolf: even though I had prior experience with Lisp, and took the two SICP courses in the Technion.
22:19 rindolf: The first course was quite a load, but I survived.
22:19 rindolf: I had read the whole book first.
22:20 rindolf: I got 100% on the second course, but most of my classmates did too.
22:20 sw2wolf: a bit counterintuitive at beginning too
22:20 rindolf: We were supposed to implement an assignment at our own time and hand it by a deadline. Not too hard.
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22:22 rindolf: OK, now vim highlights the racket code properly.
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22:22 rindolf: :-)
22:23 sw2wolf: congratulation
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22:26 rindolf: Trying to use rlwrap racket now I am getting: showsq: undefined;
22:26 rindolf: cannot reference undefined identifier
22:27 rindolf: I ran it like that- rlwrap racket -i --require squares-inside-squares.rkt
22:28 sw2wolf: Why donot you use xrepl ?
22:28 chandler: rindolf: I don't know what the problem is, but have you considered using racket's own builtin readline functionality?
22:28 rindolf: chandler: I didn't know it was present.
22:28 rindolf: chandler: how do I start it?
22:29 chandler: rindolf: You probably want to take a look at xrepl, actually.
22:29 chandler: rindolf: http://docs.racket-lang.org/xrepl/index.html
22:29 sw2wolf: just put (require xrepl) into ~/.racketrc
22:31 rindolf: chandler: OK, did that - it appears much slower than rlwrap.
22:31 rindolf: chandler: at least the Left arrow ; right arrow movements.
22:31 rindolf: And this is a Duo Core laptop.
22:32 chandler: Huh. I'm not seeing any problem with that, even on a small Atom-based system.
22:32 rindolf: chandler: OK.
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22:37 rindolf: How can I load a file and have the new (define (func foo) ...) available in "racket" (not drracket)?
22:37 rindolf: I tried --load --require / etc.
22:37 rindolf: chandler: how strange.
22:37 sw2wolf: (enter ...)
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22:47 rindolf: Hi all.
22:48 ozzloy: rindolf, i know you're not a huge emacs fan, but if you were running emacs with geiser, you'd be able to code, then C-c C-a to go to the repl with the new code loaded
22:48 rindolf: ozzloy: OK.
22:49 ozzloy: also before i started learning lisp, i used vim extensively for about a decade
22:49 ozzloy: and then i decided to use emacs since the tutorials seemed to assume it
22:49 ozzloy: now i use emacs and vim and it's really not that bad, everyone should stop complaining
22:50 rindolf: ozzloy: I tried learning Emacs several times in the past and it kept tripping me.
22:51 ozzloy: Nisstyre, ideone looks pretty snazzy!
22:51 ozzloy: "looks" aka has some good ideas
22:51 ozzloy: rindolf, bummer
22:52 ozzloy: rindolf, it still trips me up.  it was definitely a huge pain in the butt.  after 6 months or so it stopped being a huuge pain
22:53 ozzloy: that's when i found the built-in documentation and some wikis on the webzors
22:53 bremner: ozzloy: do you use vim emulation in emacs?
22:53 ozzloy: no
22:54 ozzloy: i use vim when i want to use vim
22:55 bremner: I've never been a serious vim user, but some vim people seem to like "evil" mode in emacs
22:56 ozzloy: never tried it
22:56 ozzloy: maybe?
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23:20 rindolf: So how do I (load ) a file and get all new definitions? Is (load ...) done in a separate scope? I recall it otherwise
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23:33 rindolf: Nisstyre: any idea about my problem?
23:35 sw2wolf: I have told you (enter "your-file.rkt")
23:35 rindolf: Hmmm... (eval '(define foo 500)) is working.
23:35 rindolf: sw2wolf: ah, anyway from the command line? Aside from --eval?
23:36 rindolf: enter: undefined;
23:36 sw2wolf: from racket REPL
23:36 sw2wolf: (enter! "test.rkt")
23:37 sw2wolf: then you can use the definitions in test.rkt
23:39 Nisstyre: rindolf: you probably want to do (require "foo.rkt")
23:39 Nisstyre: you have to do (provide foo bar baz) in that file
23:39 Nisstyre: you can provide everything by doing (provide all-defined-out)
23:42 jamessan: bremner: yeah, I've found evil-mode to be pretty useful.
23:46 rindolf: I tried «rlwrap racket -I slideshow -i --require squares-inside-squares.rkt» - no cigar.
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23:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/OP6_hA
23:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a5961dc Robby Findler: make the drr log follower show its results in a separate window
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