00:03 mye: are there functions to convert a string "42" to the integer 42 built-in?
00:05 mye: mye:  it's called 'read'
00:05 scott_: try (string->number "42")
00:06 jonrafkind: lol @ read
00:06 mye: scott_: hem, wow. I had searched the docs for this
00:06 mye: seriously, it I didn't see results
00:07 mye: jonrafkind: hey read works right?
00:07 mye: (read (open-input-string "55"))
00:07 mye: is it bad to use it that way?
00:07 jonrafkind: its probably a billion times less efficient than string->number
00:08 mye: I see, I knew it would be less efficient but so much. Well, it starts up the whole lexer/parser business I guess
00:09 mye: which is ironic since I use this in a parser
00:10 jonrafkind: well looking through the implementation it ultimately calls scheme_read_number
00:10 jonrafkind: which it would have called had you used read
00:11 jonrafkind: so maybe not that faster
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00:44 neilv: has someone already optimized the code from http://blog.racket-lang.org/2012/10/the-3n1-problem_4990.html ?
00:45 neilv: sometimes pedagogic or ideological code is not the fastest, and this is bad pr for some prospective adopters
00:46 neilv: especially when you make it look like a benchmark
00:46 neilv: "here is a step-by-step tutorial on how to make programs that are unacceptably slow for your needs"
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00:54 jonrafkind: what industry uses the 3n1 function to make money?
00:58 neilv: NeilvRacket 2000 Professional Edition, now with 3n+1 Acceleration
00:58 jonrafkind: ill take a dozen
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01:00 neilv: it's too bad that so many of the current prospective racket adopters do not have money to throw at their problems
01:01 neilv: my consulting firm could be making short work of a lot of these, and i could start poaching new grads and grad students
01:03 jonrafkind: you have to convince the next round of YC applicants to use racket for their whizbang website 3.0
01:03 neilv: that could backfire. if they don't do it right
01:03 jonrafkind: life is a gamble
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01:04 neilv: like lisp people used to hold up the yahoo store thing way too much, even after the "first thing you do, throw out the lisp and rewrite everything"
01:04 jonrafkind: heh yea
01:04 jonrafkind: the story of reddit follows the same path
01:04 jonrafkind: lisp out. python in
01:04 neilv: there is actually an easy way to spin that, which would work
01:04 neilv: but you still also need to do the racket the right way, or you won't get off the ground
01:05 neilv: s/the right way/a right way/
01:05 jonrafkind: well its hard to prove, like the people who try to measure productivity in static vs dynamic typed languages
01:05 jonrafkind: maybe the people who use racket would have gotten it right in any language
01:06 neilv: you don't need proof. you just need success stories
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01:06 jonrafkind: but then dumb people will fail and not know why
01:07 neilv: which is why i say it could backfire. if some startups use racket, hopefully they will do it smartly
01:09 neilv: i just started adding music-playing support to rackout.  once i get to the next good stopping point i'll probably make a showcase scalable dynamic web site using racket
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01:51 neilv: is "system-path-convention-type" the best way to decide whether i should be looking for ".exe" files instead of unix-y executable file names?
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01:04 neilv: i need to make a development tool planet package called "aardvark", since that "affine-contracts" has been getting the limelight for long enough
01:11 neilv: thanks to edward blake, it looks like mcfly-tools 1:11 might now work on windows
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01:58 shriphani: hi everyone. I am trying to loop over and perform computation on data (say 200 times). Sometime racket dies complaining that the data is empty (I build a random vector whose size = length of first item in data) and racket claims that that is empty.
01:58 shriphani: does anyone have any ideas ?
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02:04 neilv: what is the exact error message?
02:12 shriphani: oops sorry i screwed up.
02:19 shriphani: also are there any debugging tools to step through the code in an emacs/geiser setup ?
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04:42 red_trumpet: hi :)
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04:48 jdc__: I'm doing a programming exercise to return the right triangles with side length <= 10 and perimeter 24.
04:49 jdc__: And I've got it working in Racket, but it just looks really ugly
04:49 jdc__: (for*/list ([x (in-range 11)] [y (in-range 11)] [z (in-range 11)] #:when (and (= (+ (* x x) (* y y)) (* z z)) (= (+ x y z) 24)))   (list x y z))
04:49 jdc__: Does anyone know a way that would be prettier or more "idiomatic"?
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05:04 jdc__: Hello, anyone on here?
05:06 red_trumpet: Yes, me. ;-) But I'm a really newbie to racket, so I dont know an answer to your problem, Sorry.
05:07 jdc__: No worries. Thanks for saying hello anyhow :)
05:07 asvil: jdc__ ugly in comparing with what?
05:07 jdc__: Haskell or Python
05:08 jdc__: it's the example at the bottom of http://learnyouahaskell.com/starting-out
05:13 asvil: your racket code is idiomatic, i think, yes, haskell syntax is closer to math syntax
05:16 jdc__: oh well
05:35 red_trumpet: i have to go, ciao :)
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08:40 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/LDuluQ
08:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master ad70302 Matthew Flatt: error message repair
08:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 7a256fb Matthew Flatt: yet another repair for backtraces...
08:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8079ff6 Matthew Flatt: fix problem with prompts, call/cc, and tail-buffer allocation...
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10:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/eUHzQA
10:52 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0c82f54 Matthew Flatt: racket/gui: add `delete' to `choice%' and `list-control<%>'...
10:52 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 068240e Matthew Flatt: racket/gui: fix problems with control labels and client/global positions...
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13:38 mithos28: TRs numeric system needs better testing, types by fiat leads to unsoundness and safety breakage
13:38 mithos28: rudybot: init typed/racket
13:38 rudybot: mithos28: your typed/racket sandbox is ready
13:39 mithos28: (define: ZERO Zero (let ((x 2)) (if (odd? x) 0 x)))
13:39 mithos28: rudybot: (define: ZERO Zero (let ((x 2)) (if (odd? x) 0 x)))
13:39 rudybot: mithos28: error: #<undefined>:1:14: define:: expected the identifier `:' at: Zero in: (define: ZERO Zero (let ((x 2)) (if (odd? x) 0 x)))
13:39 mithos28: rudybot: (define: ZERO : Zero (let ((x 2)) (if (odd? x) 0 x)))
13:39 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
13:39 mithos28: rudybot: ZERO
13:40 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: 2
13:40 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "- : Integer [generalized from Zero]\n"
13:40 stamourv: mithos28: That's odd.
13:41 mithos28: rudybot: (:print-type odd?)
13:41 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "((U 0 1 Byte-Larger-Than-One Positive-Index-Not-Byte Positive-Fixnum-Not-Index Negative-Fixnum Positive-Integer-Not-Fixnum Negative-Integer-Not-Fixnum) -> Boolean : (Top | (0 @ 0)))\n"
13:41 stamourv: By the way, the TR numeric tower is randomly tested.
13:41 stamourv: That caught a lot of bugs, but not all operations are tested.
13:41 mithos28: I assume + is tested right.
13:41 stamourv: It is.
13:42 stamourv: But `odd?' probably is not.
13:42 mithos28: rudybot: (define: ZERO2 : Flonum (+))
13:42 rudybot: mithos28: error: #<undefined>:1:24: Type Checker: Expected Flonum, but got Exact-Nonnegative-Integer in: (#%app +)
13:42 jonrafkind: just curious, why isn't the type of `odd?' (Integer -> Bool) ?
13:42 mithos28: jonrafkind: It is, except the filter
13:43 jonrafkind: huh
13:43 jonrafkind: whats a filter
13:43 stamourv: mithos28: What's wrong with the second example?
13:43 mithos28: stamourv: I gave it wrong
13:44 mithos28: rudybot: (: sum ((Listof Flonum) -> Flonum))
13:44 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
13:44 mithos28: rudybot: (define (sum ws) (apply + ws))
13:44 rudybot: mithos28: error: #<undefined>:1:17: Type Checker: Expected Flonum, but got Real in: (#%app apply + ws)
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13:44 red_trumpet: hi :)
13:45 mithos28: stamourv: http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view%20audit-trail&database=default&pr=13218
13:45 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/ak5szn5
13:45 mithos28: since I am having trouble replicating in chat
13:45 mithos28: What i am saying is that the current testing still misses stuff, and we should look into why to increase the test coverage
13:46 mithos28: red_trumpet: Hello
13:47 stamourv: mithos28: Testing filters is probably the part that needs most work.
13:47 stamourv: But I can't think of a good way to test them at scale.
13:48 mithos28: Whats wrong with random sampling of the input domain?
13:50 mithos28: I don't see how that scales differently than the current testing
13:51 mithos28: Also you don't have to deal with multiple arguments, because almost everything that has a filter has one argument
13:52 stamourv: Right, but randomly constructing terms that exercize the filters sounds unlikely.
13:53 stamourv: Currently, random testing only tests preservation. Maybe testing the filters directly could work.
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14:07 red_trumpet: This may seem stupid, but because I'm a newbie I ask this: Why is it not possible to (map) an empty list? I would prefer racket to do nothing instead of calling an error. Do I have to call an if-clause before trying to map?
14:07 mithos28: rudybot: (map even? '())
14:07 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: ()
14:07 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "- : (Listof Boolean)\n"
14:08 mithos28: red_trumpet: What do you mean, it should work.
14:08 mithos28: Can you paste an example somewhere and give a link?
14:09 red_trumpet: Ok. You're right, that was my fault :-/ I switched the list and the procedure...
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15:33 yonkeltron: do racket thread mailboxes mean that threads have actor-like message passing?
15:34 mithos28: yonkeltron: I'm not sure what you mean exactly by actor-like, but they do support message passing
15:35 yonkeltron: understood. i was referring to the actor model as defined originally by carl hewitt
15:35 mithos28: right, but what properties of that do you want.
15:36 mithos28: I doubt it is actually faithful to all of the requirements of the original actor model
15:36 yonkeltron: guaranteed ordering and the ability to refrain from using shared mutable state in some non-terrible fashion
15:36 yonkeltron: ideally also, the ability to dynamically mux actors on to a thread pool (scala's re-actor stuff embodies this somewhat nicely)
15:37 mithos28: an individual racket place can have many racket threads which each use one native thread (modulo futures)
15:37 mithos28: so you won't get parallelism through threads
15:38 yonkeltron: i see
15:38 mithos28: look into places and futures if you want that
15:38 mithos28: threads give you concurrency
15:38 yonkeltron: i shall do this thing
15:38 yonkeltron: but not parallelism
15:38 yonkeltron: ?
15:38 mithos28: right
15:38 mithos28: If you have two network connections, you can have thread dealing with each
15:39 yonkeltron: but they still get exec'd in the same os process/thread
15:39 mithos28: right
15:39 mithos28: concurrency is at the level of semantics, while parallelism is at the level of implementation
15:40 yonkeltron: thank you for this
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15:40 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/lDKEgQ
15:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f3a060c Robby Findler: insert examples directly into drracket instead of simulating...
15:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e9e2557 Robby Findler: unbreak code that changes drracket's dock icon dynamically...
15:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master ef3eb31 Robby Findler: adjust log following to make it work for the middle of a drracket...
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16:06 RacketCommitBot: racket/release 67711f5 Matthew Flatt: fix problem with prompts, call/cc, and tail-buffer allocation...
16:06 RacketCommitBot: racket/release 5c79d60 Matthew Flatt: fix test to not depend on network connection...
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16:17 yonkeltron: mithos28: if i might bother you again, does racket contain facilities for distributed programming?
16:17 mithos28: There are the startings of some
16:17 mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/performance.html?q=distributed%20places#(part._distributed-places)
16:17 yonkeltron: i see
16:18 yonkeltron: thanks for the help and the pointers (references)
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16:26 stamourv: yonkeltron: tewk had a talk at RacketCon about distributed places. He used them to implement map reduce. The link to the video is in the topic.
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19:26 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 1126f02 Matthew Flatt: change JIT inlining of `/' to be fast on a fixnum result
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20:03 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 81dc3ba Robby Findler: audit the calls to invalidate-bitmap-cache in the framework and in...
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20:21 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0fa78a8 Danny Yoo: documentation: removing the korean characters out of the example.  Was breaking the build at LaTeX generation time.
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20:39 dyoo: jdc: dunno if will see this later, but about the question on that right triangle computation: since z is determined by x and y, the computation doesn't need to be a tripple-nested loop: just looping on x and y should be sufficient.  So: https://gist.github.com/4014787
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20:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f22aaec Robby Findler: the 'audit the invalidate-bitmap-cache' commit (2 commits ago) avoided...
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