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07:33 dca: hi. is therer rudybot manual somewhere?
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08:11 tim-brown: performance documentation says: Currently, JIT compilation is supported for x86, x86_64 (a.k.a. AMD64), and 32-bit PowerPC processors
08:11 tim-brown: how comes PPC? surprises me, i'd've thought that ARM might have been the "other processor"
08:11 tim-brown: what's the history?
08:12 tim-brown: (mind you, i'm looking at getting racket on an embedded PPC board, so it suits me fine)
08:14 asvil: hi all. is there Neil Van Dyke?
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08:24 chandler: tim-brown: I assume the history is due to Apple's previous use of PPC.
08:25 chandler: asvil: He's neilv when he's here, which doesn't seem to include now.
08:25 tim-brown: Ahh... Apple
08:26 tim-brown: I was wondering who was using IBM kit at PLT
08:26 tim-brown: is ARM JIT being worked on?
08:27 chandler: tim-brown: what kind of embedded PPC board, out of curiosity? (Hopefully not a Book E FPU device.)
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08:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9BuOYA
08:29 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 916046d Robby Findler: don't run follow-log.rkt in drdr
08:29 (part) RacketCommitBot
08:29 tim-brown: Book E sounds about right(!) :: e500 engine Freescale P1021 device
08:29 tim-brown: it'll only have 512MB onboard (and I'm not sure if any part of racket'll fit in the Flash (tftp only)?
08:30 tim-brown: TBH, prolly won't go into production, but I'm going to try for the mad-science factor
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08:31 chandler: Those devices have an... interesting, and nonstandard FPU. Does the JIT generate FPU instructions? If so, you'll probably need to turn it off anyway.
08:33 chandler wonders just what tim-brown is up to with that board.
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08:33 tim-brown: dunno... i'm doing "proper work" on it trying to get ATM working -- racket will have to wait
08:35 tim-brown: chandler: fraid you'll have to wait for now; i've prolly said too much as it is :-/
08:35 chandler: Heh, OK. :-)
08:35 tim-brown: mind you, i've a freescale demo board to a*se around with to my heart's content
08:36 tim-brown: once i've finished the proper work
08:36 asvil: chandler: thx
08:36 chandler is reminded he still needs to finish up the patch to foreign for recent linux-on-arm...
08:37 tim-brown: if i provide a function from a TR module, can I require it from a vanilla racket module?
08:38 tim-brown has been watching racketcon videos (a bit late he knows), and is all excited to do *EVERYTHING*
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08:56 dca: what does raco setup do ?
09:05 bartbes: tim-brown: I think so
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09:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/DWTTyw
09:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b520523 Matthew Flatt: change GC to specialize pairs a little more...
09:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 008f476 Matthew Flatt: Scribble PDF/Latex: Hangul support
09:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3ca7300 Matthew Flatt: improvements to GC backtrace info
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10:59 stamourv: tim-brown: Yes.
10:59 stamourv: Contracts will be inserted to prevent bad values from flowing into the typed part.
11:00 stamourv: dca: raco setup builds all the libraries you have installed (the standard ones that come with racket, those that you've installed with PLaneT / raco link, etc.).
11:01 stamourv: dca: As for rudybot help:
11:01 stamourv: rudybot: help
11:01 rudybot: stamourv: bug <more> ..., help [<what>], version, quote, source, url, seen <nick>, uptime, t8 <from> <to> <text> ..., init [<lang>], eval <expr> ..., give <to> <expr> ..., apropos <str> ..., desc <id>, doc <id>
11:02 asumu: Woo, fixed my segfault. It was just a matter of putting in a != NULL check.
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11:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/1fhaJA
11:25 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6c760b0 Robby Findler: reindent the implementation of open-input-text-editor...
11:25 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 95841b9 Robby Findler: lift the restriction that the port passed to open-input-text-editor...
11:25 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4ead534 Robby Findler: It appears that the colorer was always creating a new port to read...
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11:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QW3BJw
11:27 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 948e898 Asumu Takikawa: Fix continuation mark chaperones...
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11:29 dca: stamourv: thanks. running rudybot seems to call raco setup that fails with some kind of segfault
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11:32 stamourv: dca: You're running a local rudybot?
11:32 stamourv: The raco setup you see there probably comes from rudybot installing PLaneT packages.
11:33 dca: stamourv: yeah local
11:33 stamourv: Which version of Racket are you using?
11:34 dca: 5.3
11:34 stamourv: Can you reproduce the segfaults with a pre-release build? http://pre.racket-lang.org/release/installers/
11:34 dca: how can i tell it to install all the stuff to local dir?
11:35 stamourv: PLaneT installs its packages somewhere in ~/.racket
11:35 dca: % ./freenode-main.rkt
11:35 dca: copy-file: cannot open destination file
11:35 dca: source path: /usr/share/racket/collects/launcher/sh
11:35 dca: destination path: /usr/bin/sake
11:35 dca: system error: Permission denied; errno=13
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11:35 stamourv: Ah, I see.
11:36 stamourv: I'm pretty sure you can tell PLaneT to install things elsewhere, but I forget how.
11:36 stamourv: Have you looked at the PLaneT docs?
11:38 dca: looking right now
11:38 dca: what is "sake" at all?
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11:48 stamourv: sake? I don't know.
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11:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ZSG54Q
11:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 466d6e7 Matthew Flatt: fixes for PPC JIT...
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11:56 samth: greghendershott: i love your macro tutorial
11:56 samth: do you mind it getting more publicity?
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12:30 Gertm: Macro tutorial?
12:30 Gertm: Le where?
12:31 mithos28: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Books/ProgLangs/2007-04-26/plai-2007-04-26.pdf
12:31 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/4n7hdw
12:31 mithos28: chapter 36
12:31 asumu: Shambles_1: https://twitter.com/lambda_calculus/status/264404153571356675
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12:37 samth: Gertm: http://www.greghendershott.com/fear-of-macros/
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12:39 Gertm: Thank you!
12:39 MightyFoo: has anyone had experience with drblocket?
12:39 jonrafkind: i got it to run once
12:40 MightyFoo: the github instructions give a command line:
12:40 MightyFoo: racket browser-view.rkt gui.html
12:40 MightyFoo: but do i need something else to run to support it?
12:40 (nick) MightyFoo -> tim-broen
12:40 tim-brown: like wescheme?
12:49 jonrafkind: i think its self contained
12:49 jonrafkind: did you try running the instructions?
12:52 tim-brown: yeah... ended up putting lots of objects onto my browser windw, and "run" button did nothing for me
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12:53 tim-brown: (actually, when i provided a syntactically incorrect blob, i got an error out), but a (+ 2 2) object provided me with no kind of 4
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12:55 tim-brown: ooh.. export gives me a racket program to put into racket
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12:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/nY9cBw
12:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3d68fc2 Matthew Flatt: fix allocation of bytecode-validation stack overflow
12:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 56a4691 Matthew Flatt: tweak test to hit a less bad overflow point
12:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f232e56 Matthew Flatt: tweak optimization tests...
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13:00 tim-brown: tbh, that's relatively useful -- i'm interested in this because, on my mobile, i'm quite "typing impaired", and I hope this will allow me to produce masterpeices of programming without using the fiddly little keyboard!
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13:09 tim-brown: rudybot: true
13:09 rudybot: tim-brown: i was looking for a list look up + counter, in which i want to go through each list content, to check a predicate, and return the number of element for which the predicate is true
13:10 tim-brown: rudybot: #t
13:10 rudybot: tim-brown: your sandbox is ready
13:10 rudybot: tim-brown: ; Value: #t
13:10 tim-brown: rudybot: (square 10)
13:10 rudybot: tim-brown: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: square in module: 'program
13:12 cky: samth: (Re con slides.) You're welcome to link to http://speakerdeck.com/cky/rackona if you want, or mirror the PDF off of the site (since you've been doing that for other presentations). Of course, these are just for explanatory purposes after-the-fact, since I actually didn't use any slides during the presentation. :-)
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13:17 tim-brown: night all -- going to play with blocket without a firewall messing with me -- maybe some of the JS just isn't working!
13:17 tim-brown: samth: AYT?
13:18 tim-brown: in your TR tutorial, it seemed that DrRacket was CONSTANTLY sanity checking your code (e.g. syntax check was working constantly, even when you were editing things)
13:19 tim-brown: how did you get DrRacket to play like that?
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13:29 greghendershott: samth: Sorry was AFK.
13:30 greghendershott: I'm at a point where I'd like to have more people look at it.
13:30 greghendershott: I think it would be helpful feedback for me.
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13:30 greghendershott: Writing tech prose like this is so much harder than writing code, because it's so much less obvious when to stop fussing with it. :)
13:32 greghendershott: tl;dr Yes.
13:33 tim-brown: night all
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13:42 cky: greghendershott: Gogo perfectionism. ;-)
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15:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/KrU2hA
15:11 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a635fe8 Matthew Flatt: remove unused local variable
15:11 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3fd5b5e Matthew Flatt: backtrace fix
15:11 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 1f0508d Matthew Flatt: fix initialization of local
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15:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/gpjyPw
15:39 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6f1f04f Sam Tobin-Hochstadt: Typed Racket HISTORY.
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15:41 jonrafkind: oh well, TR lived a good life
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15:48 samth: jonrafkind: :P
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15:56 Shambles_1: asumu: Thanks.  I've been looking forward to getting the book for quite a while.  I wish they were a bit less silent on the pages.
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16:01 samth: gf3: btw: http://bitly.com/pasterkt
16:03 gf3: samth: Beautiful!
16:03 gf3: http://ec2-107-20-85-24.compute-1.amazonaws.com/paste/0076598d8a2a982d6db721854510b6ceab4c60fb
16:03 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/aep4zpd
16:03 gf3: samth: Needs some syntax highlighting love
16:03 samth: yeah
16:03 samth: i agree
16:03 samth: but there's nothing out there that's automatic in JS for racket
16:04 gf3: Yeah, I didn't find anything good for Clojure either
16:04 gf3: Might have to rely on Pygments
16:04 samth: there's already good css for the scribble style
16:04 samth: and so i'd like to re-use the scribble internals
16:04 samth: but i haven't put the time into doing that yet
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16:06 dyoo: samth: codemirror for coloring?
16:06 gf3: Codemirror is really heavy
16:06 dyoo: true
16:06 samth: dyoo: codemirror is for editing, anyway
16:06 dyoo: you can set codemirror to read-only mode, but it is admittedly heavy
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16:12 samth: gf3: http://ec2-107-20-85-24.compute-1.amazonaws.com/paste/f5b15e353752748285030d09b768e71a77393a65 :)
16:12 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/a7fctme
16:12 samth: also, thanks again for instructive code for the front-end
16:13 gf3: samth: Heh, nice :)
16:13 gf3: samth: Oh not a problem, I'd love to contribute to the design of paste.rkt if you'd like?
16:13 samth: gf3: that would be awesome!
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16:14 samth: small modifications to your css are about the limit of my visual design skills :)
16:15 jonrafkind: scrolling on that paste.rkt page kills my cpu
16:15 samth: jonrafkind: what do you mean scrolling?
16:16 jonrafkind: moving the scrollbar
16:16 samth: how small is your monitor?
16:16 jonrafkind: lulz
16:16 jonrafkind: 1280x800
16:16 jonrafkind: "scrolling is slow!" "dont scroll"
16:17 samth: i'm just surprised that there's any scrolling to do
16:17 samth: but i see now that there's always a bit
16:17 samth: although i don't understand why
16:17 jonrafkind: i mean wont there be scrolling for sufficiently large programs?
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16:17 jonrafkind: like 50 lines or whatever
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16:18 samth: yes, there will be
16:18 samth: i still don't understand why it would be slow though
16:18 samth: certainly nothing on the page changes on scroll
16:19 jonrafkind: oh i thought it was the background
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16:19 jonrafkind: hm mabye its the shadows
16:20 samth: jonrafkind: what browser are you using?
16:20 jonrafkind: chrome
16:24 gf3: jonrafkind: What browser and how powerful is your computer?
16:25 jonrafkind: chrome
16:25 jonrafkind: chrome
16:25 jonrafkind: chrome
16:25 jonrafkind: dual core amd 1.8ghz
16:25 jonrafkind: also, chrome
16:29 gf3: But which browser?
16:29 jonrafkind: netscape navigator
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16:33 greghendershott: background-image: url("/assets/plt-back.1024x768.png");
16:33 greghendershott: might cause the scrolling?
16:35 greghendershott: I mean if 1280x800 minus brower frame hoo hah leaves < 1024x768 for the page itself.
16:36 greghendershott: jonrafkind: But it probably wouldn't be an isssue in Chrome. Have you tried Chrome? Maybe using Chrome would help.  :)
16:37 jonrafkind: lynx 4 life
16:37 greghendershott: it's not scrolling for me in IE6. just sayin
16:38 asumu: links > lynx
16:38 asumu: </troll>
16:39 jonrafkind: ie6.. rofl
16:41 samth: greghendershott: does it actually work in ie6?
16:44 greghendershott: please
16:45 samth: greghendershott: good to know i'm not insane
16:45 greghendershott: i'm insulted you think i'd know o_O
16:46 greghendershott: Seriously I'm trying in Chrome and it looks and works great.
16:46 greghendershott: I don't know what's up with the scrollbar, is all.
16:50 greghendershott: Ah now I'm getting slow scrolling, also, like Jon. Although I had the extra bit (ie why should it need to scroll at all) all along, the scrolling was fast for me. Now it's slow. Odd.
16:52 greghendershott: Ah I found out why. It's that background image in the style for the <html> element.
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16:53 greghendershott: I'd disabled that in Chrome dev tools. Although that didn't the scrollbar go away, it did make the scrolling fast.
16:53 greghendershott: Re-anble it and the scroll is slow again.
16:53 samth: weird
16:54 samth: scrolling is plenty fast for me in chromium
16:54 (nick) dca -> aiNo7equ
16:56 jonrafkind: you probably dont have terrible video drivers
16:56 jonrafkind: (thanks ati)
16:56 greghendershott: http://imgur.com/QwFvQ
16:57 greghendershott: Not to sound braggy but the scrolling is slow for me on a Retina MacBook Pro with the discrete graphics enabled.
16:58 greghendershott: Not that Chrome and it have been a happy couple. First couple months, Chrome could kernel panic. Dumb bug in Chrome, and worse bug in OS X that an app could bring down the OS like that. Anyway Google and Apple finally sorted it.
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17:01 jonrafkind: is there a fee to pay apple so that your app doesn't crash the os?
17:01 jonrafkind: maybe its part of signing up for the developer program
17:01 samth: greghendershott, gf3, jonrafkind: i'm still confused as to why it scrolls at all
17:01 jonrafkind: im confused about how gravity works
17:01 gf3: It's a margin issue
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17:02 gf3: <body> isn't containing the margins
17:02 gf3: So it scrolls
17:02 gf3: I can fix it
17:03 samth: gf3: awesome
17:03 samth is still kind of a css newbie
17:04 greghendershott: jonrafkind: lol. The fee is your time. I actually went to the Genius Bar for the first time ever. I came all prepared with my print-out of kernal panics all loaded for bear.
17:04 greghendershott: Dude social engineered me into a happy place, go home and wait for an update.
17:04 jonrafkind: hes a smart guy
17:05 greghendershott: Yeah. I probably would have bought the rust proofing if he'd offered.
17:05 greghendershott: gf3: That's great you figured out the layout issue.
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17:08 gf3: I'll address the scroll issues, too
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17:09 gf3: samth: Can you enable issues for the repo?
17:09 samth: gf3: done
17:10 gf3: Thanks
17:12 greghendershott: samth: Is that EC2 instance Micro or Small?
17:12 samth: greghendershott: micro
17:12 samth: the free kind :)
17:12 greghendershott: Yep. :)
17:13 greghendershott: You should be fine but FYI Micro is the only instance type that shares CPU with other instances on the same hardware. You can burst CPU for something like 5 secs, then you get gated back down again.
17:14 greghendershott: That's no problem for many apps inc many web servers. But for ex if you were to do a build Racket build or long-running process, you might notice odd behavior WRT that. Just FYI so you're not pulling your hair out someday.
17:14 samth: greghendershott: it kills your program after 5 sec anyway
17:15 dyoo: I've had weirdness trying to run on EC2 small; have you had the same experience?
17:15 dyoo: weirdness defined as segfaults
17:15 greghendershott: The only weirdness I've had is the CPU gating with Micro.
17:15 greghendershott: On Small I've used "Amazon Linux" which IIRC is like CentOS.
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17:16 greghendershott: I don't recall segfaults, ever. At one point I had to make some symlinks for openssl libs, wrong names. But after that, no probs.
17:16 dyoo: hmm… I'll have to try again sometime then.  ok, thanks!
17:18 greghendershott: Not to open a can of worms but I've had some experiences where the GC behavior puzzles me in terms of how much memory it wants to use. I could see that resulting in a segfault. Is this something RAM heavy?
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17:20 samth: i'm using the ubuntu instance, just b/c it's familiar for me
17:23 greghendershott: Few years ago the Amazon Linux AMI was the first Linux I'd used, ever. I chose it because I figured there might be more help from them. Also it's uber minimal, "add only what you need" seems to be the philosophy. So I went with that. But for all I know ubuntu is >= good choice.
17:23 dyoo: greghendershott: it was basically 'raco setup' that was killing the machine, if I remember correctly
17:25 samth: greghendershott: i'm just pretty used to ubuntu at this point
17:25 samth: so it was much easier for me to set up
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17:26 greghendershott: dyoo: The segfault? Huh. No, I never got a segfault with raco setup. (If you said it (a) seemed to hang (b) on a Micro, I'd say it was probably just very slow, as I mentioned above.) But (1) segfault (2) on a Small, no.
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17:29 greghendershott: dyoo: It looked like Ray Racine worked out how to use OpenShift. That could be something else to try as well? https://github.com/RayRacine/rackos
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18:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/YqWU8w
18:51 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4948ca0 Asumu Takikawa: Fix typo...
18:51 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 27aa999 Asumu Takikawa: Fix docs on continuation barriers...
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19:13 mye_: Is there any trick involved closing the debugger for good?
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19:13 mye_: I click the X, change tabs, change back and the debugger is there
19:16 juanfra__: Someone with racket 5.3.0.900 on FreeBSD, NetBSD or Linux?. I need a quick test :)
19:17 mye_: OK now it's seems gone after running the program *phew*
19:34 asumu: mye_: yeah, the debugger can be wonky at times.
19:34 asumu: I should look into that sometime since I added the x.
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19:34 asumu: (before that, there was no obvious way to close the debugger at all)
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21:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/BGMKWw
21:33 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0377bda Robby Findler: make popup menus respond to mouse-up events, not mouse-down ones
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22:13 mye_: this is how I feel writing recursive grammar rules for parser-tools/yacc:   http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9waa83qRD1qcb5fko1_500.jpg
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