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02:42 asvil: hi all. small question: is performance of typed racket module equal of racket module with unsafe operations?
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03:00 Fare: I don't think typed racket optimizes fixnum yet
03:00 Fare: but for flonum, yes
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03:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/POGc2Q
03:30 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f852b9e Eli Barzilay: New Racket version 5.3.1.4.
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09:02 MightyFoo: does anyone here use SirMail in earnest?
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09:31 greghendershott: The `racket/splicing' collect is in the Macros section, so I'm trying to understand why and how it would be used. But I'm finding almost nothing in terms of rationale or examples. Mailing list archive has only a couple threads, in which e.g. splicing-let-syntax is used ... but by end of thread someone has shown simpler code that doesn't use it. Any suggestions?
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09:37 samth: greghendershott: say you want to define a few top-level definitions using the same macro
09:37 samth: you might use splicing-let-syntax
09:37 samth: of a few separate declarations inside a class
09:40 greghendershott: Not simply `begin'?  The doc says splice "in the same way as begin", but not the "but the advantage over begin is ___" part.
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09:43 greghendershott: I get the "hidden local definition" part, e.g. (splicing-let ([hidden stuff]) visible-thing-using-hidden ....). But in that case why not just (define visible-thing-using-hidden (let ([hidden]) ....))?  Is there something more I'm not appreciating?
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09:51 greghendershott: (splicing-let ([x 0]) (define (get-x) x))
09:51 greghendershott: ;; get-x is visible out here, but not x
09:51 greghendershott: (define get-y (let ([y 0]) (lambda () y)))
09:51 greghendershott: ;; get-y is visible out here, but not y -- same diff
09:51 greghendershott: 
09:51 greghendershott: Is it "merely" a style thing (in which case great I understand), or is there something "deeper" going on?
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10:27 samth: greghendershott: imagine there are two things in the body
10:28 samth: (splicing-let ([x 0]) (define (get-x) x) (define (inc-x) (set! x (+ 1 x))))
10:28 samth: rudybot: init racket
10:28 rudybot: samth: your sandbox is ready
10:28 samth: rudybot: (require racket/splicing)
10:28 rudybot: samth: Done.
10:28 samth: rudybot: (splicing-let ([x 0]) (define (get-x) x) (define (inc-x) (set! x (+ 1 x))))
10:28 rudybot: samth: Done.
10:28 samth: rudybot: (get-x)
10:28 rudybot: samth: ; Value: 0
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10:29 samth: rudybot: (inc-x)
10:29 rudybot: samth: Done.
10:29 samth: rudybot: (get-x)
10:29 rudybot: samth: ; Value: 1
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10:29 samth: rudybot: x
10:29 rudybot: samth: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: x in module: 'program
10:29 samth: greghendershott: that's the idea
10:31 asvil: good evening. another small question, I try to replace "*" by "mult" with the following macro http://paste.lisp.org/+2UZF/2, but there is error - mult: unbound identifier; also, no #%app syntax transformer is bound. so, as I understand phase level for mult binding is wrong, how can I fix it? begin-for-syntax?
10:33 samth: asvil: there are two problems
10:33 samth: 1: you should use the identifier `mult`, which can be obtained with #'mult
10:33 samth: rather than a symbol
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10:34 samth: 2: (datum->syntax #f ...) doesn't include any binding information, so when you put () together with `cons`, Racket doesn't know what application operation to use
10:35 samth: again, if you construct syntax objects with `syntax` and `quasisyntax`, things will work better
10:36 greghendershott: samth: Thanks. It seems that your example could still be done the other way I outlined--just using `define-values' instead of `define'.
10:36 greghendershott: (define-values (get-y inc-y)
10:36 greghendershott: (let ([y 0])
10:36 greghendershott: (values (lambda () y)
10:36 greghendershott: (lambda () (set! y (+ 1 y))))))
10:36 greghendershott: 
10:37 samth: greghendershott: certainly
10:37 greghendershott: But with multiple values that's starting to make splicing-let look cleaner.
10:37 samth: sometimes things are hard to do that way, though
10:37 samth: for example, the transformation to define-values requires knowing exactly what forms are in the body
10:37 greghendershott: OK. I appreciate that, on some level, everything in Racket is "merely" shorthand for some other way. :)
10:38 greghendershott: But I wanted to make sure there wasn't some wrinkle WRT to macros.
10:38 samth: if you're wrapping a bunch of arbitrary definitions, which might be `struct`, say, then that's much harder to do
10:38 samth: and splicing-let works much nicer
10:38 greghendershott: Ah. So is that the connection to macros, i.e. why this is in the Macros section of the docs?
10:39 asvil: samth, many thanks
10:39 samth: probably because you'd want to use them in macros
10:40 greghendershott: OK. I'll mull that over for awhile. Thanks!
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10:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QxDPkg
10:58 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 08c659c Matthew Flatt: fix a bug in `free-identifier=?'...
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11:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/_lRBCQ
11:16 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 226a714 Robby Findler: fix a bug in the colorer refactoring...
11:16 RacketCommitBot: racket/master fdfa5bf Robby Findler: add docs for get-spell-check-strings and set-spell-check-strings
11:16 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 9582fe8 Robby Findler: add logging to the colorer
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11:31 MightyFoo: =
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13:00 MightyFoo: night folks
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13:29 friscosam: c
13:30 carleastlund: I have a program that errors in DrRacket but runs fine in Racket.  Anyone know a good way to go about debugging that?  The few semi-obvious things I have tried have not yielded helpful results.
13:34 didi: carleastlund: You might want to explain the error.
13:34 carleastlund: didi, I might, yes.  :)  Coming up.
13:36 didi: carleastlund: Not that it will guarantee an answer, but it's a good start. ;^)
13:36 carleastlund: The program in question is: #lang planet cce/dracula (include-book "testing" :dir :teachpacks)
13:37 carleastlund: (I think the newline after "dracula" in mine is insignificant, I never can remember the restrictions on #lang lines)
13:37 carleastlund: The program depends on the Dracula planet package, obviously.
13:38 samth: carleastlund: is errortrace on?
13:38 carleastlund: samth: I have tried several different language settings, and gotten a whole spectrum of different bug behaviors
13:38 carleastlund: pick your favorite
13:38 carleastlund: :)
13:39 samth: i recommend trying various things with module->namespace at the repl then
13:39 carleastlund: But only one of those corresponds to how things run when I put the same program into the Dracula language level, so that's what I'm looking at.
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13:40 carleastlund: Hmm, yeah, I guess I'll have to play around with the DrRacket namespace nonsense, then.
13:44 carleastlund: samth, so the general pattern as I remember it does: (module FOO LANG . BODY) (require 'FOO) (current-namespace (module->namespace (quote 'FOO))) -- does that look right?
13:44 samth: yes
13:44 carleastlund: Not reproducing the error for me :(
13:44 samth: although it's more complicated these days, i think
13:44 samth: then send an email
13:45 carleastlund: Is there a way to get the macro stepper to show those things?
13:47 samth: no
13:47 samth: although you sit next to it's maintainer :)
13:48 carleastlund: on the rare occasions when we're both in, yes
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14:12 carleastlund: samth, I now suspect that reproducing this outside DrRacket is moot, my problems are probably in how I hook into the check-expect gui framework.
14:12 carleastlund: samth, Strike that.  No they're not.
14:12 carleastlund: [grr bugs]
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14:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/VpoCaQ
14:18 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8f73ebb Matthew Flatt: fix error-message code...
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15:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6fhvFg
15:27 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 45a5cfc Matthias Felleisen: basic history, please merge
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16:57 greghendershott: Anyone know how to do strike-through text in Scribble? What would be <strike> or style='text-decoration: line-through' in HTML?
17:03 greghendershott: Well I found one way that works. 1. Add a style sheet with a style such as .strike { text-decoration: line-through; }  2. Back in Scribble: @elem[#:style "strike"]{some text}
17:03 greghendershott: So I'm all set.
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17:27 jonrafkind: hm, I want a syntax form that expands a pattern variable but only accepts a pattern variable. so (with-syntax ([x #'1]) (pattern-var x)) should work while (pattern-var x9) should fail because x9 is not a pattern variable
17:27 jonrafkind: otherwise I end up writing #'x9 sometimes (typos and other random goofs) that are hard to debug
17:32 jonrafkind: seems there is syntax-pattern-variable?
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17:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/y5wRBA
17:32 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b9a0eaf Danny Yoo: Adding an example for equal<%>
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17:34 mye: anyone here knows how to write parsers with parser-tools/yacc? I'm kinda stuck on the following ebnf form
17:34 mye: predicateObjectList ::= verb objectList ( ";" verb objectList )* (";")?
17:35 mye: I'd say I need at least for grammar-id s for this
17:35 mye: But I'm not sure how to translate this
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17:36 mye: 1: (verb objectList) 2: (verb objectList SEMICOLON) 3: (verb objectList predicateObjectList) 4: (verb objectList predicateObjectList SEMICOLON)
17:38 mye: hm the last one is probably unneeded
17:38 dyoo: mye: sorry, I'm a little rusty on using yacc-style parsers
17:39 mye: dyoo: what else do you use?
17:39 dyoo: i haven't found anything that I particularly like yet.  Still looking.  :)
17:41 mye: dyoo: btw. your posting on the ML about testing the lexer helped me greatly when starting out :-)
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17:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e2d74f2 Robby Findler: streamline the objects that are sent across the channel from...
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19:45 greghendershott: jonrafkind: I don't have an answer, but I really like your question. WRT patterns and templates, and "fun size" templates created by syntax aka #' --  I'm at a stage where various "incantations" work as I expect ... usually.  But not yet at a stage where I feel confident that I can code defensively/proactively, based on a sufficiently crisp understanding of WTH is actually happening. :)
19:47 jonrafkind: it gets crazy when you abstract over macro generating forms
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20:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/d0Kzcg
20:52 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b2b350e Robby Findler: fix typesetting of builtin non-terminals
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21:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tXyLKQ
21:22 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0e71f2d Sam Tobin-Hochstadt: Fix accidental use of the wrong letrec-bound variable.
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21:40 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/SrZqHQ
21:40 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f2fd479 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt: Fix binding of `udp?`.
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21:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a57e158 Tony Garnock-Jones: Correct TR types for udp-bind! and udp-connect!.
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22:49 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e7dc4a7 Robby Findler: fix redex bitmap tests under linux
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23:29 dgs: drracket has stopped showing me error messages (when it falls over due to bugs in my code). It's highlighting the relevant section of code, just not telling me what was wrong.
23:29 dgs: I have tried a number of different language level settings (beginner thru advanced)
23:30 dgs: and hunted thru the options . . . but can't see anything that looks like it might be an option for showing/hiding errors
23:33 mye: dgs: did you restart it? Also try moving the config files from the standard location (find-system-path 'pref-file)
23:34 dgs: hmmm. it's been going on for a week or so, but potentially the laptop has not been rebooted in that time.... I'll give that a try
23:34 dgs: thanks =)
23:35 mye: dgs: I meant restart Dr. but rebooting might help as well :-P
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23:35 dgs: yeah, I figured that's what you meant.
23:36 dgs: but may as well try the obvious full reboot solution before going further =)
23:36 dgs: pretty sure I've killed and restarted racket in the interim though, but maybe not...
23:36 dgs: so possibly one of the config files
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