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00:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/DkxufA
00:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added the ability to extract a derivation - Robby Findler
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07:23 Gertm: http://pastie.org/5097611  <- feel free to comment/rip apart/publicly humiliate/suggest improvements to
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11:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to release: http://git.io/7hFqUQ
11:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] fix mismanagement of temporary print buffer - Matthew Flatt
11:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] Changed "right" error messages to match new actual error messages. - Stephen Bloch
11:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] ffi/unsafe: defend against some finalization bugs - Matthew Flatt
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13:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dBSuEA
13:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix bug in detecting the name of the language - Robby Findler
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13:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/rvtz0w
13:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] db: fix finalization bug - Ryan Culpepper
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14:23 ianjneu: hello
14:23 dyoo: inajneu: hi; any questions?
14:24 ianjneu: Maybe shortly.
14:24 ianjneu: Okay, yes.
14:25 ianjneu: I have some pretty big data structures that have a lot of (functional) sharing that I don't want shortened in the output of the printer. However print-graph #f doesn't give me that outcome.
14:26 dyoo: so you're using the default printer, right?
14:26 ianjneu: Yes.
14:26 dyoo: (as opposed to the pretty printer)
14:26 dyoo: checking...
14:26 ianjneu: Well it's print-values since this is a module top level expression.
14:27 ianjneu: okay nm that was the problem. I just wrapped a display around it and the sharing went away.
14:28 dyoo: oh!
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14:29 dyoo: just to check on this: is this in drracket, or in terminal racket?
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14:30 ianjneu: Terminal
14:31 ianjneu: The parameterization at the top level gets thunked with the rest of the expression for the call-with-values ... print-values)
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14:33 dyoo: ianjneu: this is odd though.  from docs, the current-print should be using (print …), which should have also been affected by print-graph too
14:35 (quit) dyoo: Quit: dyoo
14:35 ianjneu: even when I remove the parameterize for print-graph, the display does the right thing.
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15:51 creep: what da fuck is the executable output in drracket ? i expected binary that works
15:51 creep: and get some crap bashscript that fails
15:52 jonrafkind: what did you do?
15:53 bremner: creep: I'd use "raco exe"
15:55 creep: i would wanted to make an linux elf executable
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15:56 creep: that contains machine code
15:57 creep: racket can not do that right?
15:59 jonrafkind: it can make binaries
16:00 jonrafkind: basically it copies the racket binary (machine code) and the compiled version of your code (byte code) into a single executable
16:01 jbclements: did you choose the "Distribution (to install on other machines)" option, perhaps?
16:02 creep: ug
16:02 creep: uh
16:02 creep: that sounds very uncool
16:03 creep: like bash script copying itself onto bash binary
16:04 jbclements: on OS X, for instance, the result of "create executable" is an 0xFEEDFACF binary.
16:05 creep: now i know why there aren't any serious programs in scheme
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16:06 jbclements: As a former reader of a.f.u., I salute you. You know your stuff.
16:09 creep: scripting is not for me :(
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16:52 asumu: creep: I don't know about Scheme, but there are plenty of serious programs in Racket.
16:53 creep: *scripts
16:53 creep: there is a little difference in performance
16:53 creep: executing interpreted vs native code
16:53 asumu: Racket is quite competitive with other dynamic languages and usually faster than, e.g., Python.
16:54 friscosam: also there is jit
16:54 creep: will it be faster than my C code?
16:54 didi *sigh*
16:54 asumu: If you want C, it's right there. :)
16:54 creep: sure, but i thought racket can compile to binary too
16:54 asumu: (if you're serious, go see Rust though; C++-like performance in a nice high-level language)
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16:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/q30fLQ
16:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] update props for removed file - Ryan Culpepper
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16:58 creep: asumu<< i am unsure now if i want that
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17:04 bremner: gah, Rust needs a previous snapshot to build, what a PITA
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17:06 asumu: bremner: doesn't it auto-download it htough?
17:06 asumu: *though
17:06 creep: c is all right but it was not designed for lisp like things ;/
17:06 bremner: asumu: well, it could auto-download a binary, that would be even more convenient ;)
17:08 creep: i would like auto write code function
17:08 didi: bremner: Maybe that's not that uncommon. CCL can compile the next version of itself only by accident.
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17:10 friscosam: normally the rust build will fetch the needed snapshot
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17:27 bremner: didi: my perspective is probably influenced by packaging for debian, where that doesn't work. I think CCL is not in Debian yet mainly because of this.
17:28 bremner: well, that and the fact that CL in general is kindof moribund in Debian
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17:38 didi: bremner: There is an ongoing work to put CCL in Debian, but it's kinda stuck at the moment. I think SBCL too suffer with something like that, so there is no automatic package building and the package maintainer has to build a new version by hand every new release. I may be not remembering it right though.
17:46 (nick) jules2 -> lambdacube
17:50 bremner: afaik, sbcl is fine
17:50 bremner: but I'm not very familiar with the packaging.
17:52 bremner: oh, I see, sbcl seems to use the previous version. similar ick, you're right
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17:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/FiA7lg
17:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] updated HISTORY - John Clements
17:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] updated manual tests - John Clements
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17:59 jonrafkind: omg, rust contains an entire llvm checkout
18:04 didi: bremner: I found the message at the mailing list. I was not entirely right, but you are. The SBCL package maintainer bootstrapped it once and now each version of SBCL can compile the next one. CCL can't do the same thing, so the package maintainer would have to bootstrap every version.
18:04 SamB_MacG5: didi: I think it's fairly common that a project will have a ground rule of "must build with the previous X.Y release" (or two), at least ...
18:04 SamB_MacG5: didi: how is *anyone* supposed to keep it bootstrapped, then?
18:05 bremner: SamB_MacG5: that's not the point. The point is, you can't build from source.
18:05 bremner: It's like the smalltalk people, who seem to have given up
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18:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/AazVNA
18:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] macro stepper: fix bug re taking over run button - Ryan Culpepper
18:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] macro-stepper: show errors in provide expansion - Ryan Culpepper
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18:05 didi: SamB_MacG5: CCL release binaries with each version.
18:05 SamB_MacG5: bremner: you can't build GCC from source either
18:05 SamB_MacG5: hmm, smalltalk is a bit crazy like that
18:05 bremner: SamB_MacG5: you can build it with another C compiler
18:06 SamB_MacG5: can you even do a clean bootstrap?
18:06 didi: SamB_MacG5: So you can get the binary and use it to compile the sources of that specific version.
18:06 SamB_MacG5: didi: where do the binaries come from?
18:06 didi: SamB_MacG5: Subversion.
18:07 SamB_MacG5 wonders if there's any way to bootstrap a Squeak image from source code
18:07 SamB_MacG5: (obviously allowing an existing image to run the bootstrap in ...)
18:08 SamB_MacG5: didi: how do they get *there*?
18:08 didi: SamB_MacG5: I have no idea.
18:08 SamB_MacG5: and what's to stopp them from backdooring login?
18:13 SamB_MacG5: anyhow, self-hosting compilers that don't guarentee to be able to bootstrap each version with AT MINIMUM the previous release are BADLY BROKEN...
18:14 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
18:14 SamB_MacG5: (unless, of course, that release needed to be withdrawn because of fatal bugs ...)
18:17 SamB_MacG5 wonders how the Squeak package is built ...
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18:48 jonrafkind: with slideshow/pict how do I horizontally align A and B and vertically align B and C?
18:48 jonrafkind: if I combine either A+B and then try to add in C its not aligned in the right place. same for B+C then add A
18:54 asumu: jonrafkind: I would use ppict for that kind of thing.
18:54 asumu: (from unstable/gui/ppict, using the at-find-pict placer)
18:54 asumu: Or be more manual and use pin-over or something.
18:55 jonrafkind: pin-over doesnt work because it doesnt change the baseline and height
18:55 jonrafkind: so if you put stuff outside the bounding box it gets cut off
18:55 jonrafkind: but ppict might work
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