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00:06 jamdel: can anybody help explain cons?
00:07 mithos28: jamdel: What is your question?
00:09 jamdel: i'm having trouble with recursive syntax
00:13 mithos28: Can you give an example?
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00:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/NUXM2w
00:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] remove extra tut-subst.rkt and tmp.rkt files - Burke Fetscher
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09:08 samth: asumu: running at http://samth2.ccs.neu.edu:8000/
09:08 samth: offby1`: yes, i'm going to finish it
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10:42 stamourv: samth: Your Racket paste web thing is broken.
10:42 stamourv: (Servlet error.)
10:43 stamourv: I think it didn't like my Sierpinski triangle.
10:46 greg`: I have a question re example files included in a PLaneT library. I'd like the example files to use the `planet' form of `require' -- e.g. `(require (planet me/my-package))' -- that being the example people will want to follow. But is that OK?
10:46 greg`: Why I ask: I notice that the PLaneT installer wants to `raco make' the example files. As a result, during an install of package `me/my-package', will the presence of a `(require (planet me/my-package))' in an example file trigger an attempt to install the package that is already being installed, i.e. some kind of infinite recursion?
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10:48 carleastlund: greg: I'd suggest adding your examples to the "compile-omit-paths" option in info.rkt so raco setup doesn't try to build them when installing, regardless
10:48 carleastlund: That way the question can't come up.
10:49 stamourv: samth: It's back.
10:49 samth: stamourv: i can't replicate any errors
10:49 samth: at the moment
10:50 stamourv: I ran the Sierpinski example from the web page, submitted, and when I went pack to the main page to try something else, I got the servlet error.
10:51 samth: stamourv: that was probably me breaking it while working on it
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10:52 stamourv: Probably wasn't my fault, then. :D
10:52 stamourv: Looks pretty cool, btw!
10:53 greg`: carleastlund: Ah! `compile-omit-paths' sounds perfect. Thank you!
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10:55 greg`: carleastlund: On a (somewhat) similar note, does PLaneT have something like .gitignore? 1. To prevent accidentally including e.g. .DS_Store files? 2. Or also to exclude a whole subdir? (Although for 2 I realize I could reorg the dirs in my repo to achieve that.)
10:55 carleastlund: greg, not that I know of, sadly
10:57 greg`: carl, ah OK. Anyway, thanks again for pointing me to compile-omit-paths.
11:01 rahul___: does racket support variable length arguments and if yes, what is the syntax for it?
11:01 asumu: rudybot: (define (foo x . rst) rst)
11:01 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
11:01 rudybot: asumu: Done.
11:01 asumu: rudybot: (foo 1 2 3 4)
11:01 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: (2 3 4)
11:01 asumu: rahul___: ^
11:02 rahul___: asumu: thanks
11:04 rahul___: rudybot: (foo)
11:04 rudybot: rahul___: your sandbox is ready
11:04 rudybot: rahul___: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: foo in module: 'program
11:05 rahul___: rudybot: (define (foo x . rst) rst)
11:05 rudybot: rahul___: Done.
11:05 rahul___: rudybot: (foo)
11:05 rudybot: rahul___: error: procedure foo: expects at least 1 argument, given 0
11:07 stamourv: rahul___: There's also support for optional and keyword arguments.
11:07 stamourv: rudybot: (define (foo x [y 0] #:z [z 0]) (+ x y z))
11:07 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
11:07 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
11:07 stamourv: rudybot: (foo 2)
11:07 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 2
11:07 stamourv: rudybot: (foo 2 1)
11:07 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 3
11:07 stamourv: rudybot: (foo 2 #:z 3)
11:07 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 5
11:07 stamourv: rudybot: (foo 2 1 #:z 3)
11:07 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 6
11:09 rahul___: got it
11:10 (quit) hkBst: Quit: Konversation terminated!
11:11 rahul___: rudybot: (define bar (lambda args args))
11:11 rudybot: rahul___: Done.
11:11 rahul___: (bar 1)
11:12 rahul___: rudybot: (bar 1)
11:12 rudybot: rahul___: ; Value: (1)
11:12 rahul___: rubybot: (bar)
11:12 rahul___: rudybot: (bar)
11:12 rudybot: rahul___: ; Value: ()
11:13 (quit) jeapostrophe: Read error: Operation timed out
11:13 rahul___: ^ can also be done this way?
11:13 asumu: That's equivalent to:
11:14 asumu: rudybot: eval (define (bar . rst) rst) (bar 1 2 3)
11:14 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: (1 2 3)
11:14 asumu: So yes. :)
11:14 rahul___: ok i get it
11:18 rahul___: Are there any other "falsy" values apart from false?
11:19 asumu: No, only #f.
11:19 asumu: (and its aliases)
11:19 rahul___: I am trying to understand why or and and are implemented as special forms rather than functions
11:19 asumu: rudybot: eval (eq? #f #false) (eq? #f #F) (eq? #FALSE #f)
11:19 rudybot: asumu: error: #<undefined>:1:33: read: bad syntax `#FA'
11:20 asumu: Hmm, the last one does not exist.
11:20 asumu: rudybot: eval (eq? #f #false) (eq? #f #F)
11:20 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #t
11:20 asumu: Short circuiting is why.
11:20 asumu: rudybot: (and #f (printf "fire ze missiles~n"))
11:20 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #f
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11:21 rahul___: so the evaluation is "eager"
11:22 asumu: In Racket in general? Yes.
11:22 asumu: As are most languages really.
11:22 asumu: Forms like `and`, `or`, and others may choose to change evaluation order if they like.
11:24 rahul___: Choose evaluation order? how?
11:25 asumu: rudybot: eval (define-syntax-rule (do-not-evaluate e) (displayln (~a (quote e)))) (do-not-evaluate (+ 1 2))
11:25 rudybot: asumu: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: ~a in module: 'program
11:25 asumu: rudybot: (require racket/format)
11:25 rudybot: asumu: error: default-load-handler: cannot open input file: "/mnt/racket-5.2.900.1/collects/racket/format.rkt" (No such file or directory; errno=2)
11:25 asumu: rudybot: eval (define-syntax-rule (do-not-evaluate e) (format "~a" (quote e))) (do-not-evaluate (+ 1 2))
11:25 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: "(+ 1 2)"
11:25 asumu: Like that.
11:25 rahul___: Oh, right
11:34 rahul___: asumu: thanks
11:35 rahul___: By the way if someone were to write a racket book i'd be the first one in line to buy it
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11:40 asumu: There's a Racket book that should be out soon. Realm of Racket.
11:40 asumu: (inspired by Land of Lisp)
11:40 asumu: I agree it'd be nice if there were, say, an O'Reily book too.
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11:55 samth: gf3: can you add a license for cljbin?
11:55 samth: (since i've ripped off a large portion of it)
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12:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9iiUgQ
12:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] racket/draw: fix problems with monochrome PNGs - Matthew Flatt
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12:57 jonrafkind: first bunch of racketcon videos are up http://www.youtube.com/user/racketlang
13:01 samth: jonrafkind: woooooooooo
13:01 samth: jonrafkind: remind me to buy you a beer the next time i see you
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13:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/sZ_BLg
13:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix check for constructor of struct setter of immutable field - Matthew Flatt
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13:11 jonrafkind: the code for matthews talk is very hard to see
13:12 mithos28: On the hangout version?
13:12 samth: yeah, because the camera was much further back
13:13 dyoo: samth: thanks for getting the videos out so quickly!
13:13 mithos28: in near realtime even
13:16 jonrafkind: your welcome dyoo :p
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14:03 asumu: jonrafkind: nice, time to tweet it. :)
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14:05 asumu: https://twitter.com/racketlang/status/258992084063760385
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14:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/O0kRWQ
14:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] accomodate OpenBSD linking of libssl - Matthew Flatt
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14:12 gf3: samth: Sure, what flavour do you prefer?
14:12 samth: MIT would be great
14:12 samth: but whatever you prefer
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14:13 samth: gf3: working instance at: http://samth2.ccs.neu.edu:8000/ btw
14:13 samth: gf3: ended up stealing basically all of your front-end, and none of the backend
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14:55 jonrafkind: session 2 of the talks are up
14:55 jonrafkind: sam ill put your tutorial up tonight or tomorrow
14:58 gf3: samth: Looking great!
14:58 stamourv: jonrafkind: :D
14:59 jonrafkind: next year we should do screencasts so the slides are readable
15:00 jonrafkind: so far asumu is winning the views race!
15:00 jonrafkind: hm wtf, matthew's video dissapeared
15:01 jonrafkind: oh well, ill reupload it tonight
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15:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/j_BtcQ
15:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] FV: refactoring, various layout/display fixes - James Swaine
15:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix fv truncated-display issue - James Swaine
15:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] FV: Fix hover display "stickiness" - James Swaine
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15:19 asumu: dyoo: https://twitter.com/jeeve/status/258998833378381825
15:19 jonrafkind: cool gif
15:20 dyoo: asumu: thank you; I'll send a twitter back.  The source code should be available; can anyone else confirm that they can see https://github.com/bootstrapworld/blocks and check the repository out?
15:21 jonrafkind: why, was it private before?
15:21 dyoo: someone reported that they could not check it out
15:21 dyoo: It's not supposed to be private.  I just want to make sure I got the settings right
15:22 jonrafkind: works for me
15:22 dyoo: ok, cool.  Thanks!
15:24 jonrafkind: dyoo, i got this error: /home/jon/bin/plt/collects/web-server/web-server.rkt:111:12: expanson detects keyword #:ports that is not accepted for: serve
15:24 jonrafkind: actually it seems to be a warning or something, im not quite sure
15:24 jonrafkind: also expansion is missing an 'i' there
15:24 dyoo: ??! what? when running browser-view on it?
15:24 jonrafkind: i ran ./browser-view.rkt
15:25 dyoo: ok, let me check.  That's supposed to work!  :)
15:25 jonrafkind: well first i did 'raco maek browser-view.rkt'
15:25 jonrafkind: ok anyway  racket browser-view.rkt gui.html worked, i see drblocket
15:26 dyoo: ok, let me see what's going on with raco make.  That should work too as far as I know...
15:27 dyoo: jonrafkind: I can not replicate the problem yet.  Let me now grep for the word "expansion detects".   What version of racket are you using?
15:27 jonrafkind: 'expanson detects'
15:27 jonrafkind: v5.3.1.1.
15:27 dyoo: stupid irc client is spellchecking me
15:27 jonrafkind: rofl
15:28 jonrafkind: thats probably an error from the expander somewhere
15:28 jonrafkind: not in the web-server
15:28 dyoo: collects/racket/private/kw.rkt:                        (format "~aexpanson detects ~a for: ~a"
15:28 jonrafkind: nice
15:28 jonrafkind: so what is that message? just a warning?
15:29 dyoo: but I don't even have a physical use of "#:ports" anywhere, I think.  Time to grep again… :)
15:29 jonrafkind: i was able to run the browser-view.rkt even though it said taht.
15:29 dyoo: give me a sec
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15:30 dyoo: Is this something new that web-server takes in?  I see it in there.  Checking more...
15:34 (quit) samth_: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
15:34 dyoo: I think the error is correct, but it's web-server.rkt that's at fault here.  collects/web-server/web-server.rkt has a call to "serve" in the definition of serve/ips+ports, and it's incorrectly passing in a #:ports argument.  Must be a typo.  Making patch and pull request now...
15:35 danl-ndi: can anyone point me to a good example of how places are used?
15:36 samth: danl-ndi: https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/collects/tests/racket/benchmarks/shootout/binarytrees-places.rkt
15:36 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7rc3yc4
15:39 danl-ndi: cool, thanks. so places are essential OS processes with channels for communication/l
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15:41 dyoo: jonrafkind: https://github.com/dyoo/racket/commit/8f9883fccd4dd8d90a3038fa0ac5adf0e42ba829
15:41 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/9x35qzo
15:43 jonrafkind: nice
15:44 jonrafkind: wait why do you have your own racket
15:44 jonrafkind: do you send pull requests to the real racket repo?
15:50 SamB_MacG5: how can I find out what depends on a given module? grep is giving lots of false positives ...
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15:58 dyoo: SamB_MacG5: do you have a module that acts as an entry point in your project?  If so, can you use DrRacket's Module Browser?
15:59 dyoo: jonrafkind: I still need to set up my ssh key stuff on my laptop, so I've been sending github pull request instead.  Plus I like the idea of having my own racket.  :)
15:59 SamB_MacG5: dyoo: what if I, uh, wanted to do this on Racket's own libraries?
15:59 SamB_MacG5: I think you can guess why that won't work there ;-)
16:00 dyoo: Hmm… I haven't looked into this problem, so don't have a ready answer at hand yet.  I suspect that there's stuff in http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/module-helpers.html that can help, but I don't know for sure
16:02 dyoo: yikes; need to get more work done.  talk later!
16:02 (quit) dyoo: Quit: dyoo
16:06 samth: jonrafkind: any way to get higher-resolution versions of the videos?
16:06 jonrafkind: i dunno, you think the original video was in HD?
16:07 jonrafkind: each video has been run through 3 compressors basically, original -> mp4 (handbrake) -> avi (ffmpeg) -> avi (virtualdub)
16:07 SamB_MacG5 thinks the bandwidth spent on HD would be better used for ECC
16:07 SamB_MacG5: jonrafkind: why in the world?
16:08 jonrafkind: i suppose i could avoid the virtualdub step but it won't load mp4, only avi, and i use virtualdub to splice up the videos
16:08 SamB_MacG5: also, those aren't codecs, just mux formats
16:08 jonrafkind: well virtualdub uses x264 and im not sure what ffmpeg did
16:08 jonrafkind: i tried using -q:copy for ffmpeg but it didnt work, so i guess it re-encoded it
16:09 jonrafkind: ill try splicing the mp4 with ffmpeg and see if youtube shows it as hd
16:09 jonrafkind: if so then ill just use that instead of re-encoding it 3 times
16:09 SamB_MacG5: well, it would likely to be better quality anyhow
16:10 jonrafkind: also each time i re-encode i have to choose some quality setting, for both ffmpeg and virtualdub i used q=3 where q=1 is the best. default is q=30 which is amazingly bad
16:10 jonrafkind: but using q=1 makes the videos over 1gb each, q=3 makes them about 50mb
16:10 SamB_MacG5: the fewer lossy encoding steps, the better, obviously
16:10 SamB_MacG5: (if only all other things would be equal!)
16:10 jonrafkind: i did some spot checks and imo the final videos dont look super different from the mp4
16:11 jonrafkind: i mean the mp4 is better, but not by a large margin
16:12 SamB_MacG5: soo, anyway, is something wrong with whatever D it is now?
16:14 jonrafkind: higher definition would make the slides more readable i guess
16:15 SamB_MacG5: I doubt Youtube bases the HD designation on the level of artifacting present in the video, in any case; so unless you resized it at some point ...
16:16 jonrafkind: hm you are right, HD is 720 and higher
16:16 jonrafkind: i think these videos are like 800x600
16:16 SamB_MacG5: does Youtube shrink them down any?
16:17 SamB_MacG5: oh, and the usual workaround for unreadable slides in videos is to link to the slides themselves
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16:19 jonrafkind: SamB_MacG5, yea but a lot of people did demos
16:19 SamB_MacG5: yeah, that's harder
16:20 eli: jonrafkind: You can post the mp4 somewhere temporarily, and see if someone can find a more better toolchain.
16:20 eli stares at SamB_MacG5 intently
16:20 jonrafkind: the mp4 are on jay's site
16:20 SamB_MacG5: but obviously if, when you look at the originals, you still can't read stuff, don't even try
16:20 jonrafkind: jeapostrophe, is it ok to give out the links?
16:20 jonrafkind: http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay/tmp/RacketCon-2013/
16:20 jeapostrophe: jonrafkind: ya sure
16:21 jonrafkind: if anyone makes new videos it would be nice to put them in this racket lang youtube channel
16:21 eli: jonrafkind: BTW, so you report a typo to Danny, who opens a pull request for someone else to push --?
16:21 jonrafkind: thats what happened but it was not the intended pipeline :p
16:21 eli: BTW, are those the original videos?
16:22 jonrafkind: what do you mean by 'original' ?
16:22 Cryovat: Horray
16:22 jonrafkind: the original videos are the uncompressed feeds on blakes computer
16:22 Cryovat: The code is readable
16:22 eli: The ones from the camera, with the probably-crappier sound?
16:22 jonrafkind: no the youtube videos have the sound from your device
16:22 eli: I mean the ones in Jay's directory
16:22 jonrafkind: oh yes, in jay's
16:22 jonrafkind: they have the original audio
16:22 jonrafkind: so yes link to your mp3's
16:23 jeapostrophe: I thought you guys were going to take my videos and your sound and combine them?
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16:23 jonrafkind: yes i did
16:23 jonrafkind: thats what i said, the youtube video has your video + eli's sound
16:23 eli: jeapostrophe: What's with the "2012" in the link?
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16:23 jonrafkind: eli was asking about the mp4's hosted on your site
16:23 jonrafkind: oh rofl, racketcon 2013
16:23 SamB_MacG5: that would explain the number of compression steps
16:24 jeapostrophe: eli: you mean the 2013. probably because i'm stupid and wasn't thinking when i typed it in :)
16:24 jonrafkind: well theres at least one extra compression step due to virtualdub. i was doing to do things like adding text overlays, name, title, things like that, but its too much work
16:24 jonrafkind: and its redundant since its in the youtube description anyway
16:24 eli: Yeah, and we're both apparently equally stupid, which made things work out fine in the end.
16:25 eli: So I'd declare a feature.
16:25 jonrafkind: ok, bbl
16:25 SamB_MacG5: obviously Racket is a car
16:26 eli: SamB_MacG5: So if you want to take a shot at it, the good audio (which was recorded separately) is at http://tmp.barzilay.org/RacketCon-2012/
16:26 Cryovat: It's interesting to watch this and see what you guys look like
16:26 Cryovat: </stalker>
16:26 SamB_MacG5 doesn't really ... he has enough on his CPU/RAM as it is
16:29 eli: Is github down?
16:29 mario-goulart: Looks down to me
16:29 eli sighs
16:29 Cryovat: Both Github and Youtube is broken for me
16:30 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
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16:30 Cryovat: Damn
16:31 eli: Youtube works
16:31 Cryovat: The video of mflatt's session is better than the stream
16:31 Cryovat: But the code is still blurry :(
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16:32 eli: Yeah, youtube isn't working either.
16:32 (quit) mye: Client Quit
16:32 eli: The internets are falling.
16:32 (quit) offby1`: Changing host
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16:32 eli runs out to buy water and canned food
16:33 (nick) offby1` -> offby1
16:33 Cryovat: Haha
16:33 Cryovat: No source code and no cat videos
16:33 Cryovat: We're doomed
16:34 SamB_MacG5: does no one have a copy of gitolite?
16:34 SamB_MacG5: that's odd
16:34 offby1 guesses that sitaram over in #git does
16:34 friscosam: now if only reddit was down too.
16:35 SamB_MacG5: I geot "empty reply from server" when I tried git fetch
16:35 (quit) Demosthenex: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
16:36 (quit) MayDaniel: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
16:36 SamB_MacG5: does that mean I actually received a FIN packet?
16:37 offby1: from their twitter feed: GitHub ‏@github
16:37 offby1: We are experiencing issues due to a DDOS attack, working hard to restore service...
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16:37 SamB_MacG5: did they figure out who did it?
16:38 mario-goulart: It's back, it seems
16:38 eli: offby1: There's also https://status.github.com/
16:38 offby1: eli: that was hanging for me a minute or two ago :)
16:39 offby1: as was Google's cached copy of it (presumably because the cache tries to load live images)
16:39 eli: Heh...
16:39 eli gets some duct tape too
16:40 offby1: ammo.  The traditional supplies are canned food, water, and ammo.
16:40 eli: Maybe I don't buy that because I have enough leftovers
16:44 SamB_MacG5: eli: what will you use to fight over the remaining internets?
16:44 (quit) acarrico: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
16:46 eli: SamB_MacG5: C4.
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16:46 eli: Possibly some other things that I don't know how they're called in English.
16:47 eli had actual experience with these...
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18:16 (quit) jrslepak: Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?
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18:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/3X6SIw
18:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] expanson -> expansion - Danny Yoo
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18:35 SamB_MacG5: okay, *how* did ~/hacking/racket/bin get into my PATH?
18:37 SamB_MacG5: hmm, someone or something put it into ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist ...
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19:38 offby1 cackles evilly
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20:53 neilv: "meth:contract violation"
20:54 asumu: neilv: ?
20:54 neilv: in addition to racketeering, we're now drug dealing (and reneging on deals, besides)?
20:54 asumu: Oh, hah.
20:54 asumu: It is an unfortunate abbreviation indeed.
20:55 jrslepak: what is it an abbreviation for?
20:55 neilv: i assume it's for a contract violation on a method invocation
20:55 jrslepak: ah
20:55 neilv: bbl
21:00 asumu: rudybot: eval (require racket/draw) (define c (make-object color%))
21:00 rudybot: asumu: Done.
21:00 asumu: rudybot: (send c set "green" "blue" "red")
21:00 rudybot: asumu: error: set method of color%: expects type <byte> as 1st argument, given: "green"; other arguments were: "blue" "red" 1.0
21:00 asumu: Hmm, I thought that had contracts.
21:01 asumu: rudybot: (version)
21:01 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: "5.2.900.1"
21:01 asumu: Okay, so it has contracts in 5.3
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22:15 SHUstudent: hello world, student here... would appreciate any help with creating a game in racket using universe.css and image.css
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22:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/TUrISg
22:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Make odd? and even? future-safe - James Swaine
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23:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/VllIng
23:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust the teaching languages interactions with - Robby Findler
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