00:04 asumu: There have been several short free movies released by the Blender people, I think.
00:14 SamB_MacG5 struggles in vain to use scribble/srcdoc ...
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00:15 neilv: SamB_MacG5: an alternative is mcfly
00:16 neilv: http://www.neilvandyke.org/mcfly/
00:18 neilv: and http://www.neilvandyke.org/mcfly-tools/
00:20 SamB_MacG5 doesn't think he can use that in setup/scribble.rkt ...
00:20 SamB_MacG5: (if nothing else, the buildds would throw a fit...)
00:22 neilv: ah
00:24 SamB_MacG5: other than that it looks pretty neat, though ;-)
00:26 SamB_MacG5: hmm. documented easter eggs?
00:26 SamB_MacG5 isn't sure if that's allowed ...
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02:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/6sKIng
02:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] add binary_operator and unary_operator forms for plain expression-based operators - Jon Rafkind
02:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add items-slide - Jon Rafkind
02:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] docs for items-slide - Jon Rafkind
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02:22 cky: rudybot: (require racket/sandbox)
02:22 rudybot: cky: your sandbox is ready
02:22 rudybot: cky: Done.
02:22 cky: rudybot: (define x (make-evaluator 'racket))
02:22 rudybot: cky: error: simple-form-path: expected argument of type <path or string>; given: #f
02:23 cky: rudybot: (make-evaluator 'racket)
02:23 rudybot: cky: error: simple-form-path: expected argument of type <path or string>; given: #f
02:24 cky: rudybot: (version)
02:24 rudybot: cky: ; Value: "5.2.900.1"
02:24 cky: Fine. Let's test rudybot's sandbox directly, rather than making an evaluator, then. :-P
02:24 cky: rudybot: (system "echo foo bar baz")
02:24 rudybot: cky: error: subprocess: `execute' access denied for /bin/sh
02:24 cky: :-D
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02:40 cky: rudybot: (exit)
02:40 rudybot: cky: error: evaluator: terminated (exited)
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02:41 cky: rudybot: (+ 1 2 3)
02:41 rudybot: cky: your sandbox is ready
02:41 rudybot: cky: ; Value: 6
02:41 cky: Hahaha, I see rudybot restarts the evaluator after it dies.
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02:42 asumu: rudybot: (custodian-shutdown-all)
02:42 rudybot: asumu: error: custodian-shutdown-all: expects 1 argument, given 0
02:42 asumu: rudybot: (custodian-shutdown-all (current-custodian))
02:42 rudybot: asumu: error: evaluator: terminated (custodian-shutdown)
02:42 cky: :-O
02:43 asumu: rudybot: "err, sorry"
02:43 rudybot: asumu: err, which key shortcut can switch the search engine in w3m defined by add-to-list 'w3m-search-engine-alist ? thanks
02:43 asumu: rudybot: eval "test"
02:43 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
02:43 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: "test"
02:43 asumu: Okay, it's still alive. :p
02:44 cky: :-D
02:44 cky: I think I'm going to take a leaf from rudybot, in terms of evaluator recovery.
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11:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/kXFVFg
11:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Call `close-output-port' on abandoned port in `ssl-abandon-port'. - Marc Burns
11:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix socket leak on redirected `*-pure-port' calls. - Marc Burns
11:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added CSS rules for printing. - Manu
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11:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/LqYa-Q
11:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] redex: doc fixes - Asumu Takikawa
11:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] redex: export documented but missing predicate - Asumu Takikawa
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11:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/N-OBJA
11:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix json treatment of eof, plus tests. - Eli Barzilay
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12:10 m4burns: eli: Thanks! I'm investigating one more problem with network ports in the interpreter implementation (tcp-
12:10 m4burns: err, tcp_abandon_port does not call shutdown().
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12:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/V0oi5Q
12:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Simplify fast path for typechecking simple function applications. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
12:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Revamp handling of `Any` as a contract. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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13:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/aVPXbQ
13:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] ffi/com: try to reduce overhead on `com-invoke' - Matthew Flatt
13:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] ffi/com: faster when calling methods on many objects of same type - Matthew Flatt
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13:48 jmite: I'm trying ti use racket with the eopl language (Essentials of Programming Languages). I have the following line:
13:48 jmite: (require (only-in racket [exn:fail? eopl:error?]                   box set-box! box? unbox))
13:48 jmite: Which gives the following error: only-in: bad module path in: (only-in racket (exn:fail? eopl:error?) box set-box! box? unbox)
13:49 jmite: I haven't written this code myself, it's for an assignment and it's taken directly from the files we're supposed to start with. Does anybody know what could possible be the problem, and how I might go about fixing it?
13:49 jmite: Thanks!
13:50 jmite: I'm using version 5.1.3
13:50 (quit) jmite: Client Quit
13:50 stamourv: jmite: IIRC, eopls uses old-style require clauses.
13:51 asumu: That works in 5.3 for me.
13:51 stamourv: Oh.
13:51 asumu: He's gone anyway.
13:51 stamourv: I think dvh fixed eopl for 5.3.
13:51 asumu: IRC: not for the impatient.
13:51 stamourv: jmite: In case you read the logs, look for the docs for mzscheme's require.
13:52 asumu: Or just use 5.3 if you can.
13:52 stamourv: rudybot: (require (rename-in mzscheme [require mz-require]))
13:52 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
13:52 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
13:52 stamourv: doc: mz-require
13:52 stamourv: rudybot: doc mz-require
13:52 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/mzscheme/Old_Syntactic_Forms.html#(form._((lib._mzscheme%2Fmain..rkt)._require))
13:52 stamourv: jmite: ^
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13:54 jmite: Sorry, lost internet for a minute.
13:54 jmite: Did anyone have any ideas for my issue?
13:55 asumu: jmite: upgrading to 5.3 should solve it. Or if you need to use 5.1.3, you can use the old require form.
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13:57 jmite: Looks like that's the problem, I was on a school machine which was running 5.1.3, I'll switch to my home machine
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14:24 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
14:24 (names) -: gabot jeapostrophe gciolli jmite jrslepak mye JoelMcCracken MayDaniel mceier SamB_MacG5 masm pcavs dca_ stchang acarrico hash_table getpwnam lmg_ jonrafkind bitonic jesyspa bjz snorble_ lusory wtetzner cataska Shvillr mario-goulart wkelly Nisstyre sizz Demosthenes DT` bartbes_ noam Araq chrxn m4burns eMBee eXenon CoverSlide SeanTAllen asumu sethalves samth Gertm antono em dsantiago @ChanServ jamessan ivan\ bremner sid0 Shambles_ tewk hyko felipe pmatey
14:24 (names) -: roderic stamourv DraX Draggor typeless mattmight BeLucid `micro_ majoh triffiddd karswell_ danking_ skarpflier s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_ errstr- aidy chandler rotty_ trink server_failure cky jschuster pauls SHODAN elliottcable ivan` anonus jrslepak_neu Cryovat spanner otterdam rudybot offby1 rapacity Haffe gf3 ozzloy ianjneu friscosam
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14:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Nx39Hg
14:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] ffi/com: implement vardesc-based dispatch - Matthew Flatt
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16:05 SrPx: I'd like to report a bug on DrRacket. How to proceed?
16:06 stamourv: SrPx: From DrRacket: help > submit bug report.
16:09 SrPx: stamourv: thanks
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16:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4Rea3g
16:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add typed interface for the futures visualizer. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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16:26 SrPx: I'm using a modified keyboard layout on OSX. The remapping works for any program so far but DrRacket. When I try to input numbers on DrRacket it won't work. My numbers are mapped as Option + Key, with key being one of those: "UIOJKLM,. " (mapping to 7894561230 in order). For example, Option + U inputs the number 7 in every program but DrRacket, in which nothing happens.
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16:26 SrPx: This is the report
16:27 SrPx: Is it fine?
16:28 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
16:28 samth: sure
16:29 SrPx: I hope they fix it soon, can I wait for it ?
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16:31 tonyg: hi all - can someone help me with syntax-parse please?
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16:33 tonyg: heh never mind - figured it out :)
16:34 (part) tonyg
16:36 SrPx: (:
16:43 jrslepak wonders if this issue is vaguely related to the user who was getting blurry close/minimize/resize buttons on a retina display
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17:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Lirk8g
17:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add frame options to show-pict - James Swaine
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17:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ZjmHhQ
17:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Allow invoking thunks on the untyped side of an `Any`. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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18:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/zteOmQ
18:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] typo fixed with (lambda () ..); Closes PR 13164 - Matthias Felleisen
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18:21 mye: does the macro stepper only show expansion of macros in the main module used at the top level?
18:22 mye: I def. a macro and return its expansion from a function, but calling the function did't trigger it in the macro expander
18:22 mye: using it in the test submodule doesn't either
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18:25 samth: you might need to unhide some of the macros
18:25 (nick) samth -> samth_away
18:28 mye: double clicking in the policy editor and the Dr. hangs itself o_O
18:31 mye: even with an empty #racket module, some wild clicking on the policy editor text field makes it hang for me on osx
18:32 mye: spinning ball until killed, can someone reproduce this?
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18:33 mye: i.e. open empty module, click macro stepper, macro hiding: custom, focus on the white area and some clicking
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18:35 mye: going to try another nightly.
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18:37 eli: m4burns: I'm just asking the right people about the commits, and doing that horribly slowly.  So if you have anything else, then feel free to ping me.
18:38 eli: And BTW, it looks like those merges was a result of updating your repository with the git default instead of using a --rebase which means that they usually disappear.
18:39 eli: (One thing that this means is that it's easier to figure out the changes that you did, since I think that there's no good & safe way to know when a merge commit really doesn't add anything that is not in our repo.)
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19:26 neilv: if anyone has a mac os x terminal window handy, can they email me the output of the "ifconfig" command?   neil AT neilvandyke.org
19:31 m4burns: eli: Alright, I'll rebase from now on.
19:32 jrslepak: neilv: http://pastebin.com/nbDmmWY7
19:33 neilv: jrslepak: danke
19:34 neilv: jrslepak: yours is the first example i've found for macosx that includes tab characters
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19:34 jrslepak: really?
19:35 jrslepak: it's 10.6, in case that makes a difference
19:35 neilv: yes. i suspect the others were copy&pasted differently, or were converted to spaces by some web site thing
19:35 chandler: mine contains tabs too (10.8)
19:36 jrslepak: (my 10.4 machine is out of commission)
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19:52 SrPx: Is there a shorter version of the racket guide?
19:53 neilv: there are the tutorials: http://docs.racket-lang.org/
19:54 SrPx: And about macros?
19:54 neilv: r5rs is also mostly valid as a short language intro, but please use "#lang racket" rather than "#lang r5rs". http://docs.racket-lang.org/r5rs-std/index.html
19:54 SrPx: I want to use Racket to create a dsl but I'm not sure where to start
19:54 SrPx: That's fine but I know all that
19:55 neilv: for making a dsl, you probably want to start with syntax-case. there is a small chance you want to start with syntax-parse instead
19:55 SrPx: What is listed here, I mean: http://docs.racket-lang.org/r5rs-std/r5rs-Z-H-2.html
19:55 SrPx: Hmm
19:55 SrPx: you mean reading those on the reference?
19:56 neilv: the thing is that racket gives you syntax objects, which are very useful, so you probably want racket-specific documentation
19:57 neilv: but you can start with other syntax-case documentation, such as in tpsl, and it will *almost* work
19:57 neilv: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2011/04/writing-syntax-case-macros.html
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19:59 neilv: that blog entry by eli and this little cacm piece by matthew seem like good places to start for you: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2068896
20:00 neilv: matthew's piece uses multiple different kinds of syntax transformers. you might be best off just using syntax-case initially rather than confusing yourself with 3 different ways
20:01 SrPx: I've read a page on syntax objects and still have no clue on what they are
20:02 SrPx: I'm reading that tutorial now
20:06 SrPx: (syntax-e stx) — takes a syntax value and returns the value it “wraps”. For example, if stx is an identifier you'd get a symbol, and if it's a number you'd get the number. If it's a simple parenthesized form, you'd get a list of syntax values for the subforms. Note that the list can be improper, with the last element being a syntax object that contains a proper list. (But the list will actually be improper if the original syntax was
20:06 SrPx: What is a proper list and an improper list?
20:07 chandler: An improper list is a list that does not end in a null? value.
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20:08 neilv: chandler: schemers.org home page had a great pun about that
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20:10 SrPx: Note that the list can be improper, with the last element being a syntax object that contains a proper list.
20:11 SrPx: What, why ? A proper list of what ?
20:11 SrPx: Is "syntax object" the same as "syntax value"?
20:12 SrPx: Also, why is this so complicated? I thought Macros were just a way to reorganize a list before it is evaluated
20:14 neilv: that would be too easy. and would also lose you information about source code position and lexical context
20:20 SrPx: I see it
20:20 SrPx: just noticed there are 2 ways to define macros, right ?
20:20 SrPx: that being a more complicated way but with more information
20:20 SrPx: can I still use the simplest way for some cases where I do not need that information, though?
20:25 neilv: there are several ways to define macros
20:26 neilv: if you're trying to do a nontrivial dsl, syntax-case is a good choice. it can do simple things and complicated things
20:27 neilv: and you probably want the syntax position info for reporting errors in uses of your dsl
20:31 neilv: for example, as you're typing in the html-template dsl, drracket will highlight some dsl errors:  http://paste.org/55102
20:38 SamB_MacG5: how can I get the name of amodule/source file from within it?
20:38 neilv: search for "this-expression" in help. there are a couple things you can get
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20:39 neilv: you can also get info about planet version
20:39 neilv: this-package-version , for example
20:39 SamB_MacG5 is actually trying to stamp the plt-index.js files used for searching with a reference to the module that generates them
20:40 whiteout: Hi there! I cannot start xrepl in Gracket or in DrRacket - only in racket.exe: after (require xrepl) prompt -> does not appear and ,h not work. Is it a bug or a feature?
20:41 whiteout: ... only in racket.exe it works
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20:55 dyoo: whiteout: my understanding is that xrepl is a racket.exe only thing
20:57 dyoo: there's a little bit at the beginning of http://docs.racket-lang.org/xrepl/index.html that says how to get it to automatically start up in the "Installing XREPL" section
20:59 dyoo: SrPx: you might also find: http://hashcollision.org/brainfudge helpful in seeing how all the Racket pieces work together for a silly little DSL
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21:10 whiteout: dyoo: I had read it (about install) alredy. "my understanding is that xrepl is a racket.exe only thing" - so, you mean it is feature
21:10 dyoo: it means I'm not an expert on it, so I may be wildly wrong.. :)
21:11 dyoo: but since the docs specifically mention running on racket and assuming readline support
21:11 dyoo: that's something that only the plain racket executable provides
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21:31 mye: odd, the macro stepper doesn't pick up a macro used inside parameterize!?!
21:33 neilv: it's never expanded, or just expanded in a different order than you expect?
21:34 mye: neilv: it doesn't show up in the stepper as expandable paste.lisp.org/display/132405
21:34 mye: if I run this, no expansion
21:38 mye: The code works, but I can't step the macro while developing it if it's inside parameterize (so it seems). Isn't that odd?
21:39 mye: is parameterise possibly a macro that the stepper ignores
21:39 mye: hmm
21:40 mye: if I show paramertize in the stepper it's body is still left unexpanded...
21:41 mye: can someone reproduce this? I use a recent nightly
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21:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5B_WhA
21:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix error message - Matthew Flatt
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22:20 neilv: a compiled cache bug bit me again
22:31 neilv: racket -l racket -e "(require (planet neil/hostname:1:2)) (get-ipv4-addrs)"
22:31 neilv: hopefully that works on all unix-y host platforms. not windows, tho
22:37 SrPx: neilv: thanks
22:39 mye: is users@ always moderated?
22:39 neilv: mye: posts from people not subscribed to the list are held for moderator approval, to stop spam
22:40 neilv: posts from subscribing addresses go through immediately
22:40 mye: neilv: yeah, but I am subscribed and sending from that address.
22:40 mye: neilv: ok thanks, something I must be doing wrong
22:41 neilv: if your post doesn't go through soon, you can ask eli
22:42 mye: I'm planning the post :) but my last three where moderated so I thought maybe that's always the case
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23:23 SamB_MacG5: neilv: syntax/location seems more like what I was looking for, actually ...
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