00:01 asumu: joebob: that's ok. Feel free to ask more questions.
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00:26 em: can anyone think of a clever way for a computer program to determine the public ip of the computer it is running on, without using any third party website?
00:26 mithos28: What do you mean by public ip?
00:26 em: like when i ssh to my machine I use the public ip to do that. ssh em@24.etc.etc.etc
00:27 em: i think the public ip is the one that shows up when we are on irc without a hostmask too
00:27 em: the public ip is the one that http://whatismyip.org  gives you
00:28 em: but naturally you don't want to have to hope that a website like that exists for as long as people are using your program
00:28 em: so hopefully there is some clever way for a program to figure out what the ip is.
00:29 mithos28: I don't understand what the distinguishing factor between that IP and the IP you likely have behind your router is
00:31 mithos28: I'm trying to understand how you would validate a function that supposedly returned your public IP
00:33 em: i may be wrong about this, but say I wanted to send you a file directly from my machine to yours. I think I will need what I am calling your 'public ip'.
00:34 em: if you for example go to the website:  http://wimi.com  it will tell you your public address
00:34 mithos28: The issue is that many machines behind the same network may have the same public ip
00:35 em: the question is could you figure out your public ip address without relying on a website like wimi.com ?
00:35 em: well yeah
00:35 em: but in that case the person will do some sort of port forwarding I think.
00:36 mithos28: Right so you will also need the right ports
00:36 mithos28: What I assume you want to do, is to take two computers and have them talk directly to each other?
00:36 em: yeah
00:36 em: over the internet
00:38 mithos28: How will the computers discover one another?
00:38 em: the users will share public ip addresses with one another. Perhaps in an email or something.
00:39 em: but it is asking a lot of a user to 'go find your ip address'. I'm trying to be user friendly. It would be nice if the program could determine it to make that easier on a user.
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00:41 mithos28: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/905406/obtaining-own-external-ip-address-in-posix-c
00:41 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/d3bawze
00:43 mithos28: I don't think the question makes any sense still. I don't think such an IP number exists, any number you get could be only valid for that one connection, and that would still be following the spec.
00:45 asumu: BTW, I think it's nice that Google will tell you your IP if you look up "what is my ip"
00:45 asumu: They even show you your IPv6 if you're going through that.
00:46 jonrafkind: i bet 'whatismyip.com' took a big hit
00:47 em: asumu: yes i saw that, and that is nice, and if it turns out that the only way to get a public ip is to ask some other website i guess i would code it to ask google since google seems likely to exist for as long as people use my program
00:47 mithos28: em: The only issue would be parsing the results page
00:47 em: i dont feel so confident that i can count on 'whatismyip.com' existing for as long as people use my program
00:47 mithos28: as that will change a lot
00:48 em: yeah you never know if you can trust their results format
00:48 em: mithos28: i dont understand what's confusing about my question.
00:48 em: everyone knows that we all have a public ip
00:49 em: i may be wrong but i think our public ip is what shows up here in irc if we don't use a hostmask
00:49 mithos28: That is a public ip which works for the irc connection.
00:49 asumu: You could write an FFI to a C library that implements NAT traversal and the like: e.g, http://nice.freedesktop.org/wiki/
00:49 em: ..
00:50 mithos28: I'm claiming that it would be valid for that ip on any other port to not connect to my machine
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00:54 em: im assuming that you want people to contact you
00:54 em: you want to be able to give them a public ip that they can use to communicate via my program
00:55 em: im assuming that my user might be computer illiterate and asking them to (1) figure out your ip address and exchange it with your friend, might be prohibitively difficult for them
00:55 em: if my program had a way to at least figure out their ip for them, that would make it easier.
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02:18 asumu: I've finally figured how to use make-syntax-introducer and why I'd want to use it.
02:19 jonrafkind: nice
02:19 jonrafkind: I used it once
02:21 jonrafkind: looks like i ripped it out though
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02:41 jonrafkind: man, no triangle in slideshow/pict
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02:52 lewis1711: rackets class system makes very little sense
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03:14 jonrafkind: lewis1711, you mean the augride, pubment, stuff like that?
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03:23 lewis1711: jonrafkind: every time I try and use it I leave scratching my head.
03:23 jonrafkind: yea me too
03:23 jonrafkind: if you stick to just define and define/override you can do alright
03:24 lewis1711: super-new :/
03:24 jonrafkind: ah yea that too
03:24 jonrafkind: and the way fields are setup is strange sometimes
03:24 jonrafkind: (field) (init-field) (define)
03:24 jonrafkind: i guess you should find something that works and just stick to it
03:25 jonrafkind: dont try to understand or use the whole system
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03:56 lewis1711: I think I might just do some syntax sugar with hash tables instead
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04:05 lewis1711: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (record name . slots) (begin (define (name key) (hash-ref (make-hash slots) key))))
04:05 rudybot: lewis1711: your sandbox is ready
04:05 rudybot: lewis1711: Done.
04:05 lewis1711: rudybot: (record coord '(x . 1))
04:05 rudybot: lewis1711: Done.
04:05 lewis1711: rudybot: (coord 'x)
04:05 rudybot: lewis1711: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: '(x . 1) (no arguments)
04:06 lewis1711: like that, except working :)
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04:09 mye: when I used 'Jump to Binding Occurrence' in DrRacket, is there a way to jump back to where I left?
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06:03 neilv: hm. i have a process created with "subprocess", and i think i want any stdout or stderr to go to a racket logger
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06:04 neilv: i guess i just start a thread that syncs on the two input ports and turns each line into a log-debug call
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06:57 neilv: if drracket gets a flood of log messages, clicking stop repeatedly won't stop it
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08:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fIq4eQ
08:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add syntax error check when the arrow in a reduction - Robby Findler
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08:47 neilv: core: ELF 32-bit LSB core file Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), SVR4-style, from '/usr/local/racket-5.3/bin/gracket -N /usr/local/racket-5.3/bin/drracket -J DrRa'
08:47 neilv: haven't had that happen in a while
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09:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/a_H-Mg
09:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] sqrt 2 to show #i numbers - Matthias Felleisen
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11:49 joebob: can anyone help me interpret this line? (if (= a 0) (f2 b) (f4 (- a 1) (f5 (- a 1) b) b))
11:50 joebob: im stuck on (f4 (- a 1) (f5 (- a 1) b) b)) really
11:51 ianjneu: f4 takes 3 arguments
11:51 ianjneu: 1st is a - 1, last is b, the middle is a call to f5, a 2 argument function, with a - 1 and b.
11:53 joebob: ok it's clear now. thanks
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12:10 asumu: Is there a summary of what the new error message format is supposed to be now somewhere?
12:10 asumu: I suspect that scheme_wrong_return_arity has a slightly broken format, but I'm not sure what the standard format is.
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12:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/lYxa0Q
12:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added $PLT/compiled-root/ to git's ignore list so we have somewhere convenient - Carl Eastlund
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12:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/A_wEow
12:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] syntax/parse/experimental/template: fix ellipses/depth rules again - Ryan Culpepper
12:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] syntax/parse/experimental/template: improve prop handling & syntax checks - Ryan Culpepper
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12:40 mye: asumu: there's something in section 9.2.1 of the docs if that's what you mean
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15:24 mye: why doesn't check syntax work for submodules?
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15:25 asumu: mye: I think Robby just fixed that recently.
15:26 asumu: So if you try a pre-release build it may work.
15:26 mye: asumu: ah, I thought that may be the case
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16:07 Cryovat: I've been a bit unfaithful recently
16:07 Cryovat: Been leafing through a Haskell book
16:08 Cryovat: Thinking in terms of laziness is a headful :/
16:08 Cryovat: Coming from a background as an imperative/oo programmer, it's almost harder than thinking in terms of lists
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16:12 ianjneu: Faith is for the weak.
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16:19 stamourv: Cryovat: Laziness is tricky. It makes it especially hard to reason about space usage.
16:19 bremner: how often do you need to think about laziness though?
16:20 bremner: (in a lazy language)
16:20 asumu is dealing with a laziness issue right now...
16:22 jonrafkind whips asumu. get back to work!
16:23 asumu: rudybot: (force asumu)
16:23 rudybot: asumu: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: asumu in module: 'program
16:31 Cryovat: bremner: The example in the book (Real World Haskell) was a module for writing JSON
16:31 Cryovat: In the example, they stored two versions of the resulting string in the tree at once
16:31 Cryovat: One with linebreaks, and one "compact"
16:32 Cryovat: It was kind of an epiphany for me, but at the same time hard to accept that neither strings never materialized before you asked for it
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16:50 jonrafkind: hm, its annoying that if I have a colorized pict that I can't recolorize it
16:51 jonrafkind: I guess coloring it destroys some state that can't be overwritten?
16:52 tewk: color it lazily :)
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16:59 bremner: Cryovat: I guess I tend to think about that kind of thing as syntactic sugar for closures. That doesn't make it easy to analyze, but at least it isn't magic
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17:01 Cryovat: That makes sense, thanks :)
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18:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/ck2abA
18:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Slideshow viewer: "s" and "a" keys navigate next/previous by title - Matthew Flatt
18:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] error message fix - Matthew Flatt
18:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] slideshow/pict: make `colorize' accept list of bytes (as documented) - Matthew Flatt
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19:22 lewis1711: I have a list of identifiers I pass into a macro "slots ..."
19:23 lewis1711: how can I make them all symbols?
19:24 ianjneu: syntax->datum
19:24 ianjneu: or, easier, '(slots ...)
19:24 ianjneu: if you're in a syntax interpolation context
19:25 lewis1711: ianjneu: that does the trick, thanks
19:26 lewis1711: I had (list slots ...)
19:28 ianjneu: ah
19:28 ianjneu: quote is a lovely beast
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19:29 lewis1711: also, what's a good way to implement type predicates?
19:29 lewis1711: like when you make a struct foo, you get foo?
19:29 ianjneu: In typed racket?
19:30 lewis1711: no regular racket. I just mean the procedure that tests a type. like integer?
19:30 lewis1711: but for a custom data type
19:30 lewis1711: my first instinct would be to give each instance a generated uinique id thing, and test that
19:31 ianjneu: uh, so how are you representing your "types"?
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19:32 ianjneu: You just want a function that says yes if it's what you want and no if not. If something is an integer or a string, its predicate is (lambda (x) (or (string? x) (integer? x)))
19:33 ianjneu: structs are generative, so to protect your type abstractions, you should wrap your representation in a 1-field struct and not export it.
19:34 ianjneu: that way only your module has the ability to modify the data structure.
19:36 lewis1711: http://pastebin.com/fJXZTLTB that's the thing I am making
19:36 lewis1711: which is esssentially just a closure over a hashtable
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19:37 dyoo: lewis1711: could you reuse the low-level infrrastructure for structs?  The make-struct-type function
19:37 dyoo: gives you the pieces for making type-tagged values
19:37 dyoo: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/creatingmorestructs.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._make-struct-type))
19:37 dyoo: (or you could just use the high-level 'struct' form)
19:39 lewis1711: that looks handy
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19:40 dyoo: lewis1711; I'm looking at your record code now.  I can't help but feel that someone must have done this before!  :)  Is the point that the records act like objects with key/value pairs?
19:43 lewis1711: dyoo: I guess the point is I end up making a lot of my own structures like this. so i thought I should write macros to do it for me
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19:44 dyoo: ok, I'm trying to see how much of struct you can reuse, since so much of the rest of Racket likes structures... give me a sec
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19:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/D85KWg
19:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] avoid the default handler for call-with-continuation-prompt in - Robby Findler
19:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] remove redunant arguments (they were the same as the default args, in 70-something places) - Robby Findler
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19:48 lewis1711: I dislike structs because each struct has its own referrers. I like the idea of just being able to send a symbol to any struct and get something back
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19:48 lewis1711: though I guess you can do stuff with struct inheritance
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19:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/TgQOew
19:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] change `stream-append' to use its last argument as the result tail - Matthew Flatt
19:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] doc fix - Matthew Flatt
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19:52 dyoo: lewis1711: understood.  I'm trying something out...
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19:53 ianjneu: You can just use structs and also make a definition that uses case on the symbols of the fields to dispatch to the accessors.
19:54 ianjneu: Then you get pattern matching too
20:00 dyoo: lewis1711: here, try this out: https://gist.github.com/3759037
20:01 dyoo: it uses structs underneath the surface, but still should have the same interface as what you had earlier.  It reuses the predicate we get out of structs
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20:03 dyoo: ... on second though, this might just be too ugly code.  Hmm.  There's probably a much simpler way to do this.
20:06 lewis1711: wow
20:06 lewis1711: I don't understand most of that but it works really well
20:06 lewis1711: I just finished wrapping my head around "begin" :)
20:07 dyoo: no, I think I overengineered it
20:07 dyoo: I"m looking at it again to see if it can be much simpler
20:07 dyoo: that's the problem with learning macros: then it's all too easy to do the messy solution... :)
20:08 lewis1711: my knowledge of macros is limited to "define-syntax-rules" and "begin"
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20:10 asumu: Wow, Matthew fixed that stream bug really fast.
20:10 asumu: It took me a long time just to find it.
20:14 dyoo: lewis1711; ok, updated the gist to be a slightly simpler version. It's a bit different because it preserves the existing constructors and such, and also adds in a "new-XXX" constructor
20:18 (part) dyoo
20:41 danl-ndi: is anyone familiar with the config module? loading an ffi module it wants lib-search-dirs to be a path-string but it's #f
20:42 danl-ndi: I'm having trouble figuring out the relationship between setup and config modules......
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