00:06 micaeked: lewis1711: i'm not sure what's going on here, but if you're looking for the reason that regex does not match, perhaps it's because of the space between the two groups
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00:07 lewis1711: micaeked: you mean (regexp-match #px"([:alnum]+)([:space],[:alnum]+)" "a, a") instead? still no luck. hmm.
00:10 micaeked: this seems to work, although i'm not sure if that's what you are trying to do: (regexp-match #px"([:alnum]+)(, [:alnum]+)" "a, a")
00:10 micaeked: lewis1711: ^^
00:20 lewis1711: micaeked: hmm thanks. It appears [:space] does not do what I think it does
00:20 lewis1711: also, I asked this in #scheme, but racket is verboten :)
00:20 lewis1711: http://pastebin.com/dGJbgzrd once the while condition on line 10 is false, the whole thing freezes up. at that point, I expect it to return new-states at 53. However it does nothing but does not terminate. help? is my loop macro incorrect?
00:26 Daemmerung: lewis1711: racket is certainly not verboten there, but when you post in #scheme without preamble, we must assume R5RS
00:27 lewis1711: fair enough
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04:05 Gertm: Is typed racket faster (or supposed to be faster) than vanilla racket?
04:05 Gertm: Or is it just the advantage of the static checking you get from it?
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04:30 arbn: Gertm: http://docs.racket-lang.org/ts-guide/optimization.html
04:31 Gertm: arbn: thanks, found that myself in the mean time. Very interesting.
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05:17 lewis1711: I still don't get along well with typed/racket. often don't understand what the errors mean. also, idk why they don't use the contract syntax for functions (-> type type type) instead of the weird (type type  -> type)
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07:10 bremner: the "weird" on is closer to that used in languages like Haskell, fwiw
07:23 lewis1711: I know. but it's not very LISPy
07:25 bremner: racket is unLispy in this way in several places.
07:25 bremner: I guess the others are optional fake infix operator type things
07:28 bremner: personally I like the infix type notation.
07:29 bremner: but then I'm used to it from other contexts.
07:30 Haffe: It would be really cool with an intro to openGL taught in RACKET.
07:30 Haffe: Wonder if there is such a beast somewhere.
07:32 lewis1711: I prefer consistancy
07:34 bremner: lewis1711: in the abstract, I understand your argument.
07:34 Gertm: Racket makes a few compromises to improve practicality. Can't be a bad thing, right?
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07:35 lewis1711: I'll just write a macro, ->* :)
07:36 Haffe: These macros.
07:36 Haffe: They are said to be very powerfull and usable.
07:36 Haffe: How does one become friend with them?
07:36 Gertm: Haffe: learn them last. :)
07:37 Gertm: People have very different opinions on them. Some think they are the best thing since sliced bread, other think they should be removed.
07:37 Gertm: Just don't overuse them, is what I say. If you find an abstraction you can't make with the other stuff, macros are there to help you.
07:38 Gertm: ( ^ these are all my personal views, ymmv )
07:39 bremner: do macro-haters have some other ideas about how to make extensible syntax? or they want "python with parens"?
07:39 Haffe: I heard that the macro language in C++ is really horrible.
07:39 Haffe: With something like O(n³) complexity.
07:39 Gertm: Haffe: don't compare those systems.
07:40 bremner: Haffe: it's turing complete, so O() doesn't really make sense
07:40 bremner: (the C++ one)
07:40 Gertm: Macros give you the freedom to shape the language to match the problem you're trying to solve.
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08:56 em: when a file is written as a 'binary file' how is that done?
08:57 em: its not as if it is a text file of zeros and ones.
08:57 em: how is the computer doing that
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13:47 wtetzner: i have a problem with defining a match expander
13:47 wtetzner: i have a function called point that creates points
13:47 wtetzner: and i would also like the match expander to be called point
13:47 wtetzner: is this possible?
13:48 wtetzner: how does this work for list? or is list a special case in the match code?
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13:53 jonrafkind: yea its a special case
13:54 jonrafkind: if you create your own then you have to have a unique name since there is only a single namespace
13:55 wtetzner: is it possible to have point behave as a function and a match expander?
13:56 jonrafkind: hm, not sure but i doubt it
13:57 wtetzner: i know for structs, you can have a struct info and a constructor function bound to the same name
13:57 wtetzner: but i don't understand how it works
13:57 jonrafkind: yea thats because the struct info is used at phase 1 while the constructor is used at phase 0
13:58 jonrafkind: so they can be bound to different things
13:58 wtetzner: should be similar for match expanders, right?
13:59 wtetzner: they're run at compile time
14:01 wtetzner: i guess it's not that big of a deal, i can just use make-point for my point-making function
14:01 wtetzner: but it would be nice if the names were the same
14:08 jonrafkind: true, i dont know why define-match-expander creates a phase 0 binding
14:14 jonrafkind: ok define-match-expander expands to (define-syntax id ...), I think this is because match is analyzing phase 0 code at phase 1, to do that it needs to look at phase 0 bindings
14:16 jonrafkind: but of course it needs to get phase 1 values because it is going to actually execute the match-expander at phase 1
14:20 wtetzner: oh
14:21 wtetzner: ok
14:21 wtetzner: i guess i'll just use different names then :)
14:26 wtetzner: thanks
14:49 jonrafkind: ok i was curious how (struct a ()) works, it defines a macro named `a' and if you expand it then it turns into a reference to the struct constructor called `a1', if you don't expand a but instead extract the phase 1 value from the phase 0 binding then you get the struct info
14:49 jonrafkind: so the transformer for a and the struct info are combined into a single thing
14:51 jonrafkind: this is only really possible because `struct' itself defines `a' such that it contains both things, so you can't somehow separate the expansion of a from the phase 1 value of a
14:52 jonrafkind: I mean normally if you do (define-syntax a (lambda (stx) ...)) like it was a regular transformer and you did (syntax-local-value #'a) at phase 1 you would get back the (lambda (stx) ...) function part
14:53 jonrafkind: but (struct a ()) turns into (define-syntax (a) (make-struct-ctor-thing ..stuff...)) where the transformer (lambda (stx) ...) is part of the result of (make-struct-ctor-thing)
14:54 jonrafkind: and the way that works is that `make-struct-ctor-thing' (ok its really called make-self-ctor-checked-struct-info) creates a struct with a prop:procedure property so that it can contain stuff (like the struct info itself) and can still be applied as a regular procedure (transformer)
14:57 wtetzner: huh
14:57 wtetzner: i guess that makes sense
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15:07 wtetzner: so it wouldn't work for match expanders
15:07 wtetzner: because both values are procedures
15:09 dca: i'd like to ask for an advice. should i go for using classes and OOP stuff while writing program for studying racket? or use types? or macros? or ... (got some scheme knowledge) ?
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15:10 wtetzner: dca: depends on what program you're writing
15:10 dca: basic raytracing
15:10 wtetzner: objects are nice for encapsulating state
15:10 dca: render a scene using scene description language
15:10 wtetzner: but if you don't have state (you're writing things functionally), then go with structs and functions
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15:11 wtetzner: and use macros when you can't find another way to create the abstraction you want
15:11 wtetzner: or if you want take an existing abstraction you have, and give it prettier syntax
15:12 dca: is using macros with classes a good practice?
15:13 wtetzner: using macros with classes is fine
15:13 wtetzner: just be aware that there are disadvantages to using macros over functions and objects
15:14 wtetzner: for example, they are compile time constructs, so you can't pass them around at runtime
15:14 jonrafkind: my advice is to use classes, functions + structs can be sort of annoying
15:15 wtetzner: jonrafkind: what do you find annoying about it?
15:16 jonrafkind: well the namespace issue for one, you have to have a foo_do_x instead of just class Foo{ x() }
15:16 jonrafkind: also inheritance is pretty useful
15:17 jonrafkind: imo classes are a superset of structs+functions and can do more stuff like inheritance and encapsulation
15:18 Araq: who needs inheritance when there is dynamic typing?
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15:18 wtetzner: what i prefer about functions is that i can use them with other higher-order functions
15:19 wtetzner: like map and curry
15:19 jonrafkind: i find such things not so useful in practice
15:19 wtetzner: hmm
15:19 wtetzner: i use them often
15:19 jonrafkind: ok :)
15:19 wtetzner: different programming styles, i guess
15:23 wtetzner: dca: so try them all, see what you like, i guess :)
15:24 dca: wtetzner: okay
15:24 dca: thanks for advises!
15:24 Araq: don't use inheritance :P
15:24 Araq: nor OO :P
15:24 wtetzner: Araq: what do you have against inheritance?
15:24 Araq: I almost never saw it used properly
15:25 Araq: sum types are much better anyway
15:25 Araq: and yeah they are not extensible
15:25 Araq: that's a *feature*
15:25 wtetzner: well, in terms of subtyping, i  agree
15:25 wtetzner: but inheritance can be useful way to share implementation
15:25 Araq: use delegation for that
15:27 Araq: caring for extensibility is often just a huge waste of time, the extensions won't fit into your carefully designed hierachy anyway
15:29 Araq: there is a reason nobody needed a word like "refactoring" (and the extensive non local code transformations the term describes) before OO became en vogue
15:31 dca: how does racket implement sum types?
15:32 dca: any dynamic variable is infinite sum of types :3
15:32 Araq: yeah that's the next point
15:32 Araq: inheritance is unnecessary if you already have dynamic typing
15:34 dca: well if you have an objectDrawable that implements draw you cant (send objectDrawable draw). and if you send draw by mistake to unsupported object it'lll complain, isn't it?
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15:35 dca: but (draw-object badObject) is gonna fail somewhere inside isn't it?
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16:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mva2PQ
16:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Integers include inexact single-float integers. - Vincent St-Amour
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16:15 Araq: dca: I don't know, I never used Racket :-)
16:16 Gertm: Araq: Try it. It's great :)
16:17 Araq: I would if I had the time ;-)
16:29 Cryovat: ...single float integer?
16:29 Cryovat: How does that work?
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20:07 yw0: hello
20:08 yw0: I'm trying to make some "overloading" work in Racket, but don't know how to fight the module system ;-)
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20:34 yoklov: does anybody ever use mpairs?
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21:01 neilv: it's been a year or two since i used the racket web server. time to re-learn everything i forgot
21:02 Daemmerung: s/racket web server/Racket/, sigh
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