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01:03 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 57 new commits to master: http://git.io/hHsGPw
01:03 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Change require from mzlib/class to racket/class. - Patrick Mahoney
01:03 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Change lang of struct.rkt from scheme/base to racket/base. - Patrick Mahoney
01:03 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Require racket/struct-info instead of scheme/struct-info. - Patrick Mahoney
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01:04 mithos28: 57 commits wow!
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04:46 lewis1711: maybe I should stop using sets so much. it's hard to use the regular car/cdr tricks on them.
04:46 lewis1711: end up writing stuff like this:
04:46 lewis1711: (define (set-flatten xs)
04:46 lewis1711: (list->set (flatten (set-map xs set->list))))
04:48 noelw: Implement fold on your sets. It's the universal traversal
04:48 noelw: Or implement an iterator for for-comprehenesions
04:49 lewis1711: noelw: the implementations of flatten I've seen involve the use of car cons, and I don't know how to emulate that with sets
04:49 lewis1711: but yeah usually I use for/set, or for/fold or whatever
04:50 noelw: Flatten is (Setof (Setof X)) -> (Setof X) ?
04:50 noelw: Seems you could write that with map and insert
04:50 noelw: Since insert should deduplicate
04:51 lewis1711: what does insert do? not a recognised symbol in 5.3
04:52 noelw: Oh, I'm being a n00b
04:52 noelw: set-add
04:53 noelw: Or perhaps set-union would do it one step
04:53 lewis1711: how? I did try this but failed badly
04:53 lewis1711: I tried set-union with a fold
04:53 noelw: Ok, I see
04:53 noelw: that's what I'd do
04:54 noelw: Flatten is recursive
04:54 noelw: So you'd have to do a recursive fold + set-union
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04:58 lewis1711: rudybot: (for/fold ([accum (set)]) ([s (set (set) (set 1) (set 1 2))]) (set-union accum s))
04:58 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: #<set: 1 2>
04:59 lewis1711: rudybot: (for/fold ([accum (set)]) ([s (set (set) (set "r") (set "q") (set "r" "q"))]) (set-union accum s))
04:59 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: #<set: "r" "q">
04:59 noelw: yeah dawg
04:59 lewis1711: I swear I tried that:/ oh well, cool
05:01 lewis1711: ugh it irritates me how set-map returns a list. but I digress
05:01 lewis1711: I can use for/set but it's uglier
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05:07 lewis1711: actually.. no it's not. I am going to use it on lists as well, more consistent
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05:07 lewis1711: for/list, rather
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09:02 The_third_man: hi !
09:03 The_third_man: I just stumbled upon some scribble files and it seems linked with racket
09:03 bremner: yes
09:03 The_third_man: my problem is that I don't find a source/binary for scribble
09:03 The_third_man: (the official does not explain how to get it, or where it is)
09:03 bremner: a racket install ususally includes a binary (a script I think) called scribble
09:03 The_third_man: ok
09:04 The_third_man: thank you :)
09:04 The_third_man: which compiler would you advise ?
09:04 bremner: e.g. on Debian/Ubuntu  /usr/bin/scribble
09:04 bremner: compiler?
09:05 The_third_man: nevermind
09:05 The_third_man: thanks again !
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10:22 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
10:22 (names) -: gabot gciolli billyoc noelw mye Kaylin jao emadshaaban The_third_man Shviller kanak Jeanne-Kamikaze karswell Shvillr djcoin add^_ masm jesyspa bitonic Shambles_1 Nisstyre_ dsantiago popaya zurtik sklentikle romtank jrslepak spanner flying_rhino jrslepak_neu jschuster majoh cataska rapacity sizz aidy bremner ivan` asumu `micro Haffe Draggor noam ameoba dspt_ @ChanServ acarrico Gertm em ivan\ danking errstr server_failure benatkin Cryovat snorble_ trink
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11:27 asumu: eli: do you think it'd be possible to extend XREPL to render those bluebox things?
11:28 eli: asumu: I didn't even see them.  (I'm assuming that you're talking about the new drr thing.)
11:28 asumu: (yes)
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12:49 sikilpaake: does anybody know any good scheme/racket podcasts?
12:49 mithos28: There is the racket one on floss weekly
12:50 mithos28: http://twit.tv/floss167
12:50 mithos28: But that is just one episode
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12:52 sikilpaake: mithos28: there isn't one where i can like suscribe and listen to programming conversations?
12:53 mithos28: Not that I know of
12:53 sikilpaake: mithos28: which programming podcasts do you listen to?
12:53 mithos28: TWIG, but thats more news about tech
12:53 mithos28: not programming
12:53 sikilpaake: mithos28: hmm.. yeah
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12:54 sikilpaake: mithos28: so are you studying computers in university? or are self-taught?
12:54 sikilpaake: mithos28: so are you studying computers in university? or are *you self-taught?
12:55 mithos28: mithos28: I studied at university, and am now a software engineer
12:56 sikilpaake: oh, nice
12:56 sikilpaake: so you use racket at work, then?
12:56 mithos28: no, just as a hobby
12:57 Gertm: sikilpaake: there's "Programming Throwdown", Hanselminutes (MS-oriented though), Software Engineering Radio
12:57 Gertm: There are more but I can't remember.
12:57 sikilpaake: Gertm: is "software engineering radio" OS-agnostic?
12:57 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
12:58 Gertm: Yes, I believe so.
12:59 jonrafkind: everyone know that HEAD is broken right?
12:59 Gertm: sikilpaake: It's a bit 'enterprisey' at times though.
12:59 sikilpaake: Gertm: werd
12:59 sikilpaake: Gertm: thanks
12:59 (quit) spanner: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
12:59 Gertm: Sure, np.
13:00 mithos28: jonrafkind: HEAD is always broken, see all the open bug reports
13:00 jonrafkind: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/114847087/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-lpia.racket_5.3.0.22-20120905~karmic_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
13:00 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/9vymnpa
13:01 mithos28: I asume it was that frtime patch that got pulled in yesterday
13:01 jonrafkind: yes of course
13:01 jonrafkind: im sort of amazed with ~20 people working on racket it takes so long for an email to get sent about it
13:01 sikilpaake: Gertm: dude, who else in this room should i ask for podcasts?
13:02 asumu: jonrafkind: that's what DrDr is for.
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13:30 mye: I need a 2D parametric plot in two parameters. Can I do this with plot somehow?
13:32 asumu: mye: not sure, you might ask on the mailing list.
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14:32 cdshines: Hello all. Could anyone of you help me with racket formlets?
14:32 asumu: cdshines: possibly, ask anyway.
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14:41 cdshines: seems like my messages have lost somewhere. I asked 1) examples of working and quality code of webapps in Racket and 2) what #:attributes are allowed in predefined formltes like (text-input) etc.?
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17:51 chimeracoder: From browsing the mail archives, it seems Racket/Scribble still doesn't have a format for lightweight inline documentation of functions (like Python's docstring)
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17:51 chimeracoder: Is there an easier way to integrate function documentation into the code besides scribble/srcdoc's (provide) statements?
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17:52 jonrafkind: I think it has a (define/doc) form or something where you can provide the documentation right next to the function
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17:53 chimeracoder: jonrafkind: which lang is this in? I haven't been able to find anything like that anywhere yet :-/
17:53 jonrafkind: i have to find it, i saw it somewhere
17:53 chimeracoder: thanks - I'm on a computer that doesn't have racket atm
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17:54 jonrafkind: well I suppose you could write a macro that expands to (define) and (proc-doc)
17:55 chimeracoder: ah yes, I meant proc-doc, not provide
17:56 chimeracoder: I guess I could do that - I'm honestly not too familiar with Racket/Scheme's macro system yet
17:57 chimeracoder: proc-doc is great, but the main thing I like about Python's docstrings is that it's got no structure - really, just a description, so I can use docstrings as stubs while working
17:58 jonrafkind: so you actually refer to foo.__doc__ or whatever it is at hte repl?
17:59 chimeracoder: no - it's more that I can put a one-liner at the top of the function when I write it (perhaps the function name isn't descriptive enough, or I want to note a bug/edge case)
17:59 jonrafkind: but you can just do that with a comment
17:59 chimeracoder: that helps me when I come back to it in a week
17:59 chimeracoder: well, yes, but it also serves as a basis for when I'm writing the actual documentation
17:59 jonrafkind: in fact i dont know what the hubbub is about python doc strings, i never use them in any way. i just read the online docs
18:00 chimeracoder: well, online docs can be autogenerated from docstrings
18:00 chimeracoder: they're not mutually exclusive
18:00 jonrafkind: yea true
18:00 chimeracoder: but docstrings let me write hte documentation as I write the code (single-step)
18:00 chimeracoder: which makes writing the documentation at the end easier, because the work is already half-done
18:01 chimeracoder: (and I benefit in the meantime from having partial documentation when coding)
18:01 jonrafkind: I guess you could expand to (proc-doc function-name any "whatever you would put in a python doc string")
18:01 jonrafkind: except that racket doesn't have """ so you have to escape " characters
18:01 jonrafkind: well thats not true, it does have heredocs
18:01 jonrafkind: not that I can remember how you type them
18:02 chimeracoder: hmm
18:02 chimeracoder: Python fakes this because standalone strings evaluate to empty statements
18:02 chimeracoder: I assume there's no way to use the native comments in racket without re-parsing?
18:03 chimeracoder: I never really thought about using comments in reader macros, haha
18:03 jonrafkind: right
18:08 chimeracoder: Okay, so would the best approach be to do something like this? https://gist.github.com/3645946
18:10 jonrafkind: i updated it.. something like that
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18:16 chimeracoder: okay, thanks
18:16 chimeracoder: let me install racket + try that out
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18:28 chimeracoder: hmm - not quite working for me. What's the purpose of putting the define statement as literal-id and then having an underscore in the pattern?
18:28 chimeracoder: shouldn't the define statement be part of the pattern to be matched?
18:29 jonrafkind: the _ matches the macro itself
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18:29 jonrafkind: putting define as the literal ensures that its not matched as a pattern variable
18:30 jonrafkind: the define is part of the pattern
18:30 jonrafkind: the pattern is (_ docstr (define (name arg ...) body ...))
18:30 chimeracoder: oh, I see
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19:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/tR5yRA
19:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix documentation of the prompt installed by `module' - Matthew Flatt
19:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] change a thread's initial prompt to use the default handler - Matthew Flatt
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20:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/gLI3OA
20:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix one frtime compilation error by updating require and provide forms in collects/frtime/reactive.rkt - Gregory Cooper
20:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix the other frtime compilation error by commenting out the body of collects/frtime/frtime-opt-lang.rkt - Gregory Cooper
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21:07 lewis1711: I love it when text books give a mathematical description of an algorithm instead of imperative pseudocode... the former usually makes it far easier to write in languages like racket
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22:06 asumu: lewis1711: although sometimes I wish they would give working code and not pseudocode.
22:07 asumu: (or you can be Knuth and provide working code in your own architecture/language...)
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22:13 lewis1711: asumu: I am fine with pseudocode usually. it's just if it's imperative I feel a bit dirty translating it into a nice language like racket or scala
22:13 lewis1711: where as if it's an equation.. much better
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23:29 lewis1711: http://pastie.org/4671814 I've gotten myself confused...  I could write the procedure on line 17 without first computing the whole powerset, right? by using my defn of powerset and using a #:when clause there... except i tried a couple of places and I'm not sure where
23:31 mithos28: lewis1711: I'm not sure what your question is.
23:32 lewis1711: mithos28: I calculated the whole powerset then filtered it, could I do it more efficiently?
23:33 mithos28: What is eclosed
23:34 mithos28: Also what do you mean by more efficiently, not generating the whole power set, or not storing the whole power set in memory at once?
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23:36 lewis1711: mithos28: not generating the whole powerset. eclosed? generates whether the given set has a closure under epsilon. it just returns a boolean
23:36 lewis1711: deterministic finite automata
23:38 mithos28: well if (eclosed? trans-func s) returns true for all s, then you have to generate the whole power set
23:39 mithos28: What property of eclosed can you use to not have to iterate over every element of the porewr set
23:39 lewis1711: that's true
23:39 lewis1711: I more meant, if eclosed is false than I can avoid adding it to the powerset in the first place
23:40 mithos28: But you want to run eclosed on every element in the powerset
23:40 mithos28: thus you do need to generate the whole power set, correct?
23:42 lewis1711: mithos28: I need to generate every possible element of the powerset yes, but I don't need to add every single possible element to the result.  is your point sort of "what are you saving since you have to calculate every subset anyway" ? hmm
23:43 mithos28: Yes, what is your measure of efficency that you are not meeting?
23:43 lewis1711: I guess just generating an extra long powerset when I cut away many of the results
23:43 lewis1711: guess it doesn't *really* matter
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