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12:02 Fare: hi!
12:02 mithos28: hello, Fare
12:02 Fare: hi.
12:03 Fare: bibliographical question: is anyone aware of any previous work in automatically translating between pure and stateful datastructures?
12:03 Fare: maybe some kind of monad on steroid?
12:03 mithos28: ST monad in haskell
12:04 Fare: it's just for a single cell, isn't it?
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12:04 mithos28: It allows you to use a mutative array, and then once you are done initializing it, turn it into an immutable one without copying
12:04 Fare: it doesn't wrap around each and every method to do the wrapping/unwrapping of data, is it?
12:05 (part) ambrosebs
12:05 mithos28: I'm not sure what you mean by that
12:05 Fare: in lil, I automatically transform all the methods: insert, drop, etc., from pure to stateful and back based on a simple description of side-effects.
12:06 Fare: e.g. the pure method monadically passes the structure around, the stateful method modifies it in place
12:06 mithos28: Oh, yes. Some people showed that it can be done with at most log(n) slowdown
12:06 mithos28: for any datastructure
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12:06 Fare: that's not the question: did anyone automate that before?
12:07 Fare: and yes, log(n) slowdown is trivial.
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12:07 mithos28: As in did they implement their proof?
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12:07 Fare: in a constructive way, usable by programmers
12:07 mithos28: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sleator/papers/Persistence.htm
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12:08 mithos28: That seems to be what you are asking about
12:08 Fare: related though not exactly
12:09 Fare: I'll probably add it to bibliography after reading it, though -- thanks!
12:10 Fare is looking for a coauthor on his ilc2012 paper for lisp-interface-library.
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12:18 Fare: maybe I should have adopted the persistent vs ephemeral lingo instead of pure vs stateful...
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14:34 asumu: Nice, Neil's blog post got on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/yu3qa/fully_inlined_merge_sort/
14:34 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/cvh4ewr
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15:19 Fare: hi
15:21 Fare: btw, how do I write the equivalent of nest with define-syntax? (defmacro nest (&rest things) (reduce #'(lambda (outer inner) (append outer (list inner))) things :from-end t))
15:35 soegaard: Fare: Do you have any examples of usage and corresponding expansion? (for us that don't read CL)
15:36 Fare: Riastradh on #scheme gave me a solution: (define-syntax nest (syntax-rules () ((nest x) x) ((nest (x ...) y z ...) (x ... (nest y z ...)))))
15:36 jonrafkind: isnt there already a nest in racket somewhere
15:37 Fare: dunno... is there?
15:37 Fare: it's great to nest binding forms
15:38 Fare: note that foldl instead of foldr is great for piping
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15:43 soegaard: http://docs.racket-lang.org/scheme/nest.html?q=nest#(form._((lib._scheme/nest..rkt)._nest))
15:43 Fare: way cool!
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15:45 Fare: thanks!
15:47 asumu: Oh, so Clojure's -> is basically just nest.
15:47 soegaard: Rare thing to see this in the docs: "The nest form is unusual in that it has no semantics apart from its expansion, and its implementation is easier to understand than a precise prose description:" followed by a syntax-rules macro
15:52 Fare: interestingly, racket's nest is different from my nest - gratuitously more complex.
15:53 Fare: IIUC: (mynest x ...) ==> (racket:next (x ...))
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15:54 soegaard: related: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@racket-lang.org/msg06109.html
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16:43 flaggy: hello, when using define-syntax, is there a way to bind variables which can be used inside the generated code?
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16:54 Cryovat: If they're "named parameters" in the rule, you can treat them as variables
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17:03 flaggy: I want to create a macro called define-action-with-tournament which creates a function that takes an id as parameter and then does (let ((tournament (tournament/find id)) ...). So, when I write (define-action-with-tournament my-fun ...) the code in ... can use tournament variable.
17:06 soegaard: flaggy: How about with-syntax ?
17:12 soegaard: https://gist.github.com/3483621
17:14 soegaard: We need a site to show case small programs written in the teaching langauges showing code and graphics.
17:15 soegaard: http://www.khanacademy.org/cs/chompy-and-friends/882986876
17:16 soegaard: Students can discuss programs written by themselves or by friends.
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17:23 flaggy: I don't know how to do it. Can someone give me an example? I guess I want is an unhygienic macro. Maybe it's not even possible.
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17:33 rapacity: check format-id
17:33 rapacity: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/syntax-util.html
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17:40 rapacity: eval (require (for-syntax racket/syntax))
17:40 rapacity: rudybot eval (require (for-syntax racket/syntax))
17:40 rapacity: rudybot: eval (require (for-syntax racket/syntax))
17:40 rudybot: rapacity: Done.
17:40 flaggy: let me show what I have so far: https://gist.github.com/3483759 I want to make tournament and request available inside of code ...
17:41 rapacity: rudybot: eval (define-syntax (make-lol stx) (syntax-case stx () [(make-lol id body ...) (with-syntax ([lol (format-id #'id "lol")]) #`(let ([lol (+ 9000 id)]) body ...))]))
17:41 rudybot: rapacity: Done.
17:41 rapacity: rudybot: eval (make-lol x (displayln x))
17:41 rudybot: rapacity: ; stdout: "21\n"
17:41 rapacity: rudybot: eval (make-lol x (displayln lol))
17:41 rudybot: rapacity: ; stdout: "9021\n"
17:41 flaggy: hm
17:43 flaggy: this is odd
17:45 rapacity: you just need to add (with-syntax ([tournament (format-id #'action-name "tournament")]) after line 3 in your code to wrap #'(define ...
17:45 rapacity: err and the require for racket/syntax
17:46 flaggy: yeah, I think I get what I need to do, but I'm still figuring out what's happening. Thanks for the help :)
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18:14 flaggy: I think I undestand what's going on, what i'm not quite following yet is what is a lexical context, the first parameter for format-id
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21:17 zencephalon: Hey guys, I'm working on writing a web forum in Racket. How would you recommend implementing session variables for doing login?
21:20 jonrafkind: probably using a parameter, (make-parameter)
21:21 zencephalon: So just keep the state in a hidden field?
21:21 jonrafkind: oh for that you should serialize continuations and have the user return the continuation id with their request
21:23 zencephalon: ah, thanks
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