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00:23 jyc: would anyone know where write/display are defined in the source? I've been looking but really have no idea
00:24 mithos28: Those are likely defined in the c code
00:24 jyc: mithos28: oh, heh. that explains it. will look some more, thanks again!
00:25 mithos28: try print.c
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00:49 mithos28: Is there a standard macro that evaluates an expression in phase 1, and uses the result of that as the output of the macro?
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01:53 jyc: should I write a contract for every function? (and if so, how deeply should it check?)
01:53 mithos28: jyc: It depends
01:53 jyc: it seems like I could write a contract to verify the value returned by every function, but then there would be a lot of redundancy
01:53 mithos28: Usually you write a contract for every export of a module
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01:54 mithos28: I like to check enough to make sure that I don't need any error checking in the implementation code
01:55 jyc: that sounds reasonable. what about return values? should I just check their types, or is it recommended to write little tests?
01:55 mithos28: But for example I don't use the forall combinator in functions to make sure that they don't examine things they should be polymorphic in
01:55 mithos28: Both
01:56 jyc: alright, thanks once again!
01:56 mithos28: The contract on the return type is useful for documentation
01:57 mithos28: contracts serve a different point then tests, they tell you who is at fault when something goes wrong, tests make sure that your code works
01:57 jyc: you read my mind, haha
01:58 jyc: (that was the next question I was going to ask)
01:58 mithos28: Seemed likely
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03:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tjFgDg
03:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] New Racket version 5.3.0.20. - Eli Barzilay
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10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 5 new commits to master: http://git.io/vrW78w
10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Cleanup TR printer to use lazy-require. - Eric Dobson
10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove unused old printer. - Eric Dobson
10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Make disabling the custom printer work. - Eric Dobson
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10:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/RRF2rQ
10:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Move `define-struct/printer` to new file. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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11:00 nowhere_man: hi people
11:00 nowhere_man: I just went to se racket's FFI, but I can't find a good example of its use
11:01 nowhere_man: examples installed with racket seem to use a previous API, from mzscheme
11:02 asumu: nowhere_man: did you look in the ffi/examples directory?
11:02 asumu: https://github.com/plt/racket/tree/master/collects/ffi/examples
11:03 soegaard: nowhere_man: http://planet.racket-lang.org/package-source/asumu/taglib.plt/1/0/taglib.rkt
11:03 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/9hlsjvc
11:04 soegaard: Search for "binding" on the front page of Planet to see more examples.
11:06 nowhere_man: asumu: yeah, they start with (require mzlib/foreign)
11:06 nowhere_man: but racket's documentation uses (require ffi/unsafe)
11:07 asumu: I think the copies in git use the modern API.
11:07 asumu: The release build might have the old files.
11:07 nowhere_man: asumu: thanks a lot!
11:08 asumu: NP. :)
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11:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/h6yOeg
11:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] remove unnecessary dependency from scribble on slideshow - Robby Findler
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11:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/dqUeDg
11:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix race on resolved-module-path table - Matthew Flatt
11:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add "rackunit" to "mz" distribution - Matthew Flatt
11:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] include root "contract-blueboxes.rktd" in distributions - Matthew Flatt
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11:51 asumu: Interesting that cutting srfi/13 dependency decreases the bytecode footprint.
11:51 asumu: I wonder if we went on a campaign to remove SRFI dependencies we could appreciably cut the memory footprint of #lang racket.
11:51 asumu: (or at least often used libraries)
11:53 asumu: (okay, there's not actually that much code that depends on them)
11:54 stamourv: A quick grep in the `racket' collect doesn't show any dependencies on srfis.
11:54 asumu: There is some DrRacket/GUI code that does, so it could potentially affect DrRacket mem use.
11:56 stamourv: Good point.
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12:02 chandler: asumu: A campaign to get built in collects to use racket/base would probably help too.
12:03 chandler: (Or maybe most of them do? I know that db doesn't, but it might be an outlier.)
12:04 samth: chandler: i think most do
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12:06 asumu: A grep shows that most, but not all, do at least in core parts like racket and drracket.
12:06 asumu: Though might be worth tracking down the few outliers.
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12:10 samth: mithos28: apropos your question from overnight
12:10 samth: i remember that ryanc once wrote a form like that for debugging
12:11 samth: but i couldn't find it in the tree
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12:11 mithos28: should I put it in unstable?
12:12 mithos28: I'd have to write it, but I have seen a couple of uses of it in TR
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12:17 mithos28: samth: Are lots of tiny pull requests like I have been sending good, or should I try to batch them more. I have been trying to keep them at one conceptual change each.
12:18 samth: mithos28: i like having multiple pull requests
12:19 mithos28: ok
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13:28 chandler: Whoops! I was wrong about "db" using racket instead of racket/base. I wonder why I thought it did.
13:30 gf3: Is anyone using the latest racket 5.3 package on arch?
13:31 gf3: I get this lovely error after installation: "racket: error while loading shared libraries: libffi.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
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13:33 gf3: Upgraded libffi package, everything seems fine
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13:39 jonrafkind: did someone  make an arch package for racket?
13:44 gf3: Also, that sandbox issue with libcrypto still exists :(
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14:11 asumu: gf3: what sandbox issue?
14:13 samth: asumu: that you get a sandbox error using libcrypto
14:13 gf3: asumu: When making use of the sandbox I get the following error → "file-exists?: `exists' access denied for /usr/lib/libcrypto.so"
14:13 gf3: Existed in 5.2 as well
14:14 asumu: Huh. Any sandbox?
14:14 gf3: For me yes
14:14 gf3: And it's only on Arch linux that I can reproduce ut
14:14 gf3: *it
14:14 gf3: I haven't been able to reproduce it on any other machines or configurations
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14:29 asumu: gf3: do the examples here work for you? http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Sandboxed_Evaluation.html?q=sandbox&q=redex&q=gen%3Asequence&q=racket/draw&q=main&q=syntax-local#(def._((lib._racket/sandbox..rkt)._make-evaluator))
14:29 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/bnc6g32
14:34 gf3: asumu: OH MAN!
14:35 gf3: asumu: I found it
14:35 gf3: asumu, samth: When I require net/url in the evaluator it implodes
14:35 gf3: asumu, samth: This is new to 5.3
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14:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/eL05mw
14:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix types of magnitude and angle. - Vincent St-Amour
14:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix type of expt. - Vincent St-Amour
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14:40 jonrafkind: how do I match a sequence in a sub-pattern in match? like match '(a 1 2 3 4 5 6) with (list x (first second) ...)
14:41 DanBurton: what do you mean "match a sequence", exactly? what names do you expect to be bound to what values in that example?
14:41 jonrafkind: first should be bound to (1 3 5) and second to (2 4 6)
14:41 jonrafkind: in syntax/parse I can do this with (~seq first second) ...
14:42 asumu: gf3: I think the problem is that net/url depends on the openssl module. This uses the FFI.
14:42 asumu: Which is unsafe.
14:42 gf3: I see
14:43 DanBurton: I'm not sure match can do that, that is, know how to split the list in half like that
14:43 jonrafkind: I guess I have to make a match expander that matches (first second) and do matcher ...
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14:44 samth: jonrafkind: there's nothing like `~seq` in `match`
14:44 jonrafkind: any other way to get what I'm looking for?
14:46 DanBurton: If you want to do that sort of thing, I'd recommend writing (define (halve xs) (let ... (values first-half second-half))) and then use let-values to bind to it
14:48 jonrafkind: yea but I really wanted to do (a 1 2 3 4 b) with (list a (first:int second:int) ... b)
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14:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/ptCZCw
14:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Make simple substitution happen all at once. - Eric Dobson
14:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix substitute and add test case. - Eric Dobson
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15:00 arubis: Howdy, folks.
15:01 stamourv: Hello.
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15:23 arubis: Hm. GPRS uplinks are problematic. Hi again.
15:25 arubis: Anyway! Anyone know much about getting plt-racket playing nice under MacOS/Homebrew? It compiles for me, and racket launches properly in the terminal, but DrRacket and Gracket fail with ffi-lib: couldn't open "libcairo.2.dylib" (dlopen(libcairo.2.dylib, 10): image not found)
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15:27 asumu: arubis: you might ask on the mailing list. A bunch of people there use Mac.
15:27 asumu: I'm not sure there are many users on IRC right now who use Mac.
15:28 arubis: asumu: It's definitely not the GUI-est environment. I kinda wonder what IRC's demographic has become these days...
15:29 arubis: Good thought, though; I'll give that a shot. Googling around hasn't helped much.
15:29 asumu: Yeah, the thing is Racket has plenty of devs who use Mac, but many who don't hang out on IRC as much.
15:29 arubis: Would that I knew enough lispy stuff to otherwise contribute to the conversation :P
15:30 arubis: Fair 'nuff...and...brb. Oy, timing.
15:30 soegaard: arubis: Is there a particular reason you want to use Homebrew instead of using the installer on the Racket homepage ?
15:32 stamourv: arubis: I believe there's a repo containing the Mac libraries Racket needs on PLT's github.
15:33 stamourv: arubis: https://github.com/plt/libs
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15:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/XqlO7A
15:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Don't special-case applications with instantiations. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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15:52 arubis`: soegaard: habit, mostly. Homebrew feels "cleaner," somehow.
15:52 arubis`: stamourv: and that I will look into, thank you!
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15:53 soegaard: I don't see why.
15:55 arubis: soegaard: I've never tried to justify it. On first blush... it feels "right" to install normal Apple-flavoured GUI software with DMGs, and CLI-driven UNIXy stuff with something that feels more like apt; homebrew, in this case.
15:56 soegaard: Well a dog is just a mounted disk image. What could be more unixy ;-)
15:56 soegaard: dog -> dog  (mumble spell checker)
15:56 soegaard: dog -> dmg
15:56 soegaard: sigh
15:58 arubis: If I were way more awake I'd make such a killer witticism with dogs and pipes.
15:58 arubis: Or mounting. Or...I don't know. Something _hilarious._
15:59 arubis: Anyway; not trying to convince the rest of the world. That's just how installers taste to me.
16:03 soegaard: To me it is a problem if, say, a Homebrew installer isn't made by the same people that make the software.
16:03 soegaard: Besides introducing an extra source of errors, it also means that updates will be slower.
16:04 soegaard: Case in point: The installer in ports is still for mzscheme.
16:04 soegaard: http://www.macports.org/ports.php?by=name&substr=scheme
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16:13 arubis: and but seriously, if you were ever wondering if internet access in developing nations is any good...well, not this one.
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16:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/pxSSDQ
16:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Removed deprecated printf/log. - Eric Dobson
16:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix internal error for untyped kw functions. - Eric Dobson
16:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Replaced infer-dummy with lazy-require. - Eric Dobson
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16:14 jonrafkind: swim to brazil :)
16:15 arubis: long swim but tempting anyway.
16:16 arubis: (my other justification for trying to get this working with Homebrew rather than the DMG: downloading another 100+MB is kind of a hassle.)
16:21 soegaard: See that I argument I understand.
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16:23 samth: close to 100 users!
16:25 arubis`: popularity, whoo!
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16:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/3iqXgg
16:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Make promises like every other TR container. - Eric Dobson
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18:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/0h7qEA
18:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] rename contract-blueboxes.rktd to blueboxes.rktd - Robby Findler
18:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] show docs for syntax-quoted identifiers - Robby Findler
18:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjut check syntax so that it pays attention only - Robby Findler
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20:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vaiP9A
20:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] pass the currently specified directory to get-directory - Robby Findler
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21:04 sizz_: Does DrRacket have a mode to provide functionality equivalent to ParEdit in Emacs?
21:09 asumu: sizz_: Unfortunately, no. I heard DivaScheme (a plugin for DrRacket) does, but it comes with a bunch of other things too.
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22:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/fJHLvw
22:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] improve the error message for cases where there is - Robby Findler
22:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust 'authors' from scriblib/autobib so that it - Robby Findler
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23:15 asumu: eli: BTW, I see better sitelinks for Racket on Google now.
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23:38 sizz_: Another question about DrRacket -- I don't seem to have full syntax highlighting. If you look at the all-nums function as seen in DrRacket on my system, here http://derp.co.uk/54696.info?iamsure I would expect that lat, else and each appearance of all-nums would be highlighted, and that define and lambda would be highlighted differently from these, and also differently from everything else. Is this not correct?
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