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01:02 mithos28: Is there a way to create a module-level definition from a macro expanding in an expression context?
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02:07 asumu: mithos28: does `syntax-local-lift-expression` do what you want?
02:07 asumu: (or the several variants on this)
02:07 mithos28: asumu: I need to be able to lift a definition
02:07 mithos28: None of those looked like they did that
02:09 asumu: `syntax-local-lift-expression` binds its argument to the generated identifier at the top-level. So if you can lift the body of your definition, it should work.
02:09 asumu: (well, not necessarily top-level, but wherever it ends up being lifted to)
02:10 mithos28: I want to lift a definition, or more specificaly a form that will expand out into a define-values form
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02:15 mithos28: Can you wrap a box in a syntax object, and then mutate the box, changing the syntax object or does it make a copy?
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02:20 mithos28: Cannot do it for boxes but can do it for mpairs, and likely other mutable objects
02:22 asumu: mithos28: how about something like this https://gist.github.com/3180554
02:23 mithos28: I don't think that will work. Try (#%expression (foo x)) instead of (foo x)
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02:24 mithos28: I'm not sure if this approach will work even if I can get this part
02:25 mithos28: I am trying to figure out how to turn TRs define-predicate into a make-predicate macro.
02:25 asumu: You're right, that doesn't work. Hmph.
02:25 mithos28: define-predicate needs to be written at the module level, because of crazy TR magic
02:26 mithos28: all that make-predicate should need to do is to create a temporary identifier, and raise a define-predicate before the current expression
02:27 mithos28: It cannot be after as the (make-predicate ty) could be evaluated before the next top level form is evaluated
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02:47 mithos28: There is a good reason that what I want is impossible
02:48 mithos28: You can currently figure out all the definitions in the module level context before executing anything in an expression context
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05:38 MightyFoo: is there a standard function that implements (lambda (x) (display x) (newline)) ?
05:38 MightyFoo: (or write)
05:40 noelw: displayln
05:45 MightyFoo: noelw: thx
05:45 noelw: no problemo
05:46 MightyFoo: other than wrapping with a (let/cc...), is there any (simple) way to make for/fold to work like for/first - but returning out an accumulator
05:47 MightyFoo: maybe i'm, asking if there is any way to run an accumulator in any for iterators other than for/fold
05:47 MightyFoo: (move the comma as you will)
05:50 noelw: Mutation? I.e. set!
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05:53 MightyFoo: is there a "purer" way? -- I'm sure I can write a custom fold'er; but i wondered if it was already within the facilities available to me
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05:57 noelw: You want do any early exit, right?
05:58 noelw: let/ec is the simplest way to achieve that
05:58 noelw: Otherwise you can build custom for comprehensions using the (somewhat involved) tools provided
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05:58 noelw: I forget if there is one doing what you want already -- might be something in the standard library or Planet
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06:24 MightyFoo: is there an "easy" discussion of prompts, continuations, escapes et al?
06:24 MightyFoo: (i see you sugest let/ec rather than let/cc)
06:35 noelw: There isn't, that I know of
06:35 noelw: but let/ec is very easy to understand
06:35 noelw: you have a one shot continuation
06:35 noelw: and you call it to exit
06:35 noelw: you can't use it again so you can't play games like you can with let/cc
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06:37 MightyFoo: is it (what do they call it?) a return only continuation? like the ones Java based schemes are limited to?
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07:51 noelw: yeah, return only = escape only
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09:47 soegaard: MightyFoo: Apropos making for/fold work like for/first without let/ec.    https://gist.github.com/3182110
09:50 soegaard: Actually the (set! stop? #t) line is not needed.
09:54 soegaard: Hmm. Found a bug.
09:57 (nick) danking_ -> danking
10:04 soegaard: What is the expected result of the following?
10:04 soegaard: https://gist.github.com/3182213
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10:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/lrdSZA
10:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] typo - Matthew Flatt
10:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] racket/port: fix `make-limited-input-port' handling of progress evts - Matthew Flatt
10:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] typo - Matthew Flatt
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11:09 doomrobo: is there a function that returns a copy of an inputted vector but with a specified element modified?
11:09 doomrobo: instead of using vector-set!
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11:10 asumu: doomrobo: unfortunately, no. But since that would have to copy the whole vector anyway, you don't get much benefit.
11:10 doomrobo: asumu, I just wanted it to be pure :-P
11:10 doomrobo: I wonder how Haskell does it
11:12 asumu: Clojure does it by making their vectors into trees instead of actual arrays.
11:19 doomrobo: I did it but it's useless: (define (vector-set vec i val) (let ((n (vector-copy vec))) (begin (vector-set! n i val) n)))
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11:25 asumu: It would be interesting for us to implement persistent vectors ala Clojure and see if they're useful.
11:25 asumu: Since immutable vectors right now are mostly useful as read-only data structure.s
11:26 doomrobo: apparently c++ vectors can access their elements in constant time
11:26 doomrobo: I wonder what underlying structure is used
11:28 doomrobo: it's an array
11:28 doomrobo facepalms
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11:30 doomrobo: asumu, I don't thinking using trees for a vector is the right decision. It *should* be a constant look up
11:31 asumu: It's an amortized constant lookup.
11:31 nilyaK updates flash... again
11:32 asumu: Alternatively, you could use one of the variants on lists that have better lookup complexity.
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11:34 asumu: (random access lists, that is)
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11:35 doomrobo: I'm not too familiar with these structures or terms (amortized O(1)?)
11:36 asumu: Amortized O(1) just means that over a sequence of operations, it's O(1) even though each operation isn't.
11:38 doomrobo: asumu, like searching an array?
11:38 doomrobo: it's O(n) total but O(1) per element
11:40 asumu: Not quite, amortized analysis considers all operations you do on some data structure.
11:41 asumu: The idea is that operations can be fast most of the time, but sometimes requires a larger cost.
11:41 asumu: Such as balancing the tree or whatever.
11:41 asumu: So you balance out the large cost by the smaller ones and get a good amortized cost.
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11:58 doomrobo: I think I understand
12:01 MightyFoo: noelw: i've just stunbled upon stop-before and stop-after, which might (untried) do the trick for stopping my for/folds
12:01 noelw: oh, ok. I don't know about them
12:01 (quit) Shvillr_: Quit: bye
12:02 euro: realm of racket should appear this summer, but it's prolonged to this winter... HtDP/2e grows up incredibly slowly and we should expect another 2-3 years to become available in publishable format despite the fact that it's funded by US goverment funds.... oh, what a shame! On the other fand, there are that modest Shen project (www.shenlanguage.org) and one incredible man, Mark Tarver!
12:02 euro: What a man!
12:02 euro: SHEN, the best language ever!
12:03 noelw: Good times
12:03 euro: Shriram, shame on you! Matthias, shame on you! Eli, Shame on you!
12:03 euro: HAHAHHAHAHA
12:03 noelw: Shame on me too?
12:03 MightyFoo: especially you Noel!
12:03 euro: noelw, shame on you too, you choose scala
12:03 euro: hahahah
12:03 (nick) MightyFoo -> tim-brown
12:03 euro: even you dont't belive in racket
12:05 danl_ndi: can I get some shame?
12:06 tim-brown: nope, try harder next time
12:06 euro: and there are one disgusting guy: Niel Van Dyke... sucha an asshole
12:06 danl_ndi sulks.
12:06 euro: this man is real jerk
12:06 tim-brown: danl_ndi: shame on you for sulking
12:06 danl_ndi: cool thanks
12:06 euro: tim brown, you are good guy but you don't understanrd
12:07 tim-brown: stop sulking and there's no more shame for you
12:08 euro: tim, would you like to come drink with me (i love franch's sancerre)
12:08 euro: racket con? hahaha what a joke! and this year this will passed unfilmed
12:08 euro: hahhahahaa
12:08 euro: what a bunch of idiots!
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12:09 euro: realm of racket should appear this summer, but it's prolonged to this winter... HtDP/2e grows up incredibly slowly and we should expect another 2-3 years to become available in publishable format despite the fact that it's funded by US goverment funds.... oh, what a shame! On the other fand, there are that modest Shen project (www.shenlanguage.org) and one incredible man, Mark Tarver!
12:10 euro: on the uther hand, Clojure is the new LISP
12:10 euro: but why? it's only because of incomnetence of this crowd
12:10 stamourv: euro: Please behave.
12:11 euro: i'am, mr, stamourv
12:11 stamourv: I don't want to have to remember how to kick you.
12:11 euro: and i must say, you're an idiot hehehehe
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12:11 euro: you small soul
12:11 euro: SHEN, the best kanguage ever
12:12 euro: language
12:12 euro: MARK TARVER
12:12 euro: the best man
12:12 euro: www.shenlanguage.org
12:12 noelw: all hail Mark Tarver!
12:12 stamourv shrugs.
12:12 euro: YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:12 euro: fuck you all
12:12 euro: hahahahha
12:12 euro: hahhahaha
12:12 euro: hahhahaha
12:12 noelw: Oh, c'mon, that's not fair
12:12 euro: why?
12:13 euro: noelw? did you wrote the book abou racket as you promise
12:13 noelw: What have we ever done wrong, apart from our shameful actions above, and not being Mark Tarver?
12:13 euro: ???
12:13 tonyg gets popcorn
12:13 euro: noelw? did you wrote the book abou racket as you promise
12:13 euro: ??
12:13 euro: fuck you wrote!
12:13 noelw: I sure didn't. But I don't think I ever promised to
12:13 tim-brown: stamourv's rifling through his irc in a nutshell -- i sense it
12:13 euro: and poll about book?
12:14 stamourv: tim-brown: I'm ready. Say when. ;)
12:14 euro: you don't know anything about that?
12:14 euro: stamourv, you are an banning idiot
12:14 tim-brown: as soon as you're bored of it
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12:14 stamourv: euro: I guess I am.
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12:15 noelw: I did run a poll. That is true.
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12:16 noelw: well. the show didn't last long
12:17 noelw: anyway, i gotta go
12:17 noelw: laters
12:17 (nick) noelw -> noelw_away
12:17 tim-brown: noelw: ttfn - and shame on you!
12:17 noelw_away: my shame is a heavy burden
12:18 tim-brown: you bear it wll
12:21 neuro__: @rudybot 3
12:22 neuro__: any web tutorial for racket?
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12:23 tim-brown: neuro__: start at http://docs.racket-lang.org/
12:23 neuro__: are there anybody who write web applications in racket?
12:24 neuro__: tim-brown, this is such an stupid answer
12:24 tim-brown: there's three tutorials at the top of that; and the second is web apps
12:24 tonyg: neuro__: Tutorial: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=racket+tutorial&l=1#
12:24 neuro__: yeah,continue
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12:24 neuro__: stupid and catastrophic tutorial
12:25 neuro__: no templates
12:25 neuro__: no nothing
12:25 neuro__: crap
12:25 neuro__: tonyg, you're asshole
12:25 tonyg: neuro__: You'd probably prefer x86 assembly language programming. There are loads of tutorials on the net for that
12:26 neuro__: you don't know anything about that
12:26 neuro__: and you send me to the google
12:26 neuro__: you are idiot
12:26 tonyg: neuro__: you're drunk.
12:26 neuro__: yeah!
12:26 neuro__: i'm bloody am
12:26 neuro__: hahahaha
12:27 neuro__: i'm an expert on lisp programming
12:27 neuro__: ask me anything
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12:29 stamourv: Nice try, stamourv_.
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12:30 danl_ndi: this channel does get boring every once in awhile... so there's that
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12:31 korkyra: hi
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12:33 tim-brown: tonyg didn't even have time to pop corn
12:36 tonyg: tim-brown: i used super-duper quick-popping /imaginary/ popcorn
12:36 tonyg: it's the tastiest.
12:36 tim-brown: sweet or salted?
12:36 tonyg: yes.
12:36 tim-brown: ooh
12:37 tonyg: yeah you know it. Now you want some. But guess what! I have spare. Here, have these.
12:37 tim-brown: nom
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12:48 tim-brown: i asked this a couple of years back, but does the racket gui framework have a "table" layout?
12:49 tim-brown: or maybe i'll look at planet and see table-panel/table-snip
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12:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/pLLqgQ
12:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] toward fixed interaction between positions and peek-commits - Matthew Flatt
12:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] more on `port-commit-peeked' and EOFs - Matthew Flatt
12:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] another repair to `subprocess' test - Matthew Flatt
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13:02 tim-brown: night all
13:03 doomrobo: gn
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13:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 10 new commits to release: http://git.io/46V0Gg
13:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] Note `require' of a `main' submodule for `-t', `-l', and `-p' - Matthew Flatt
13:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] windows: fix `subprocess' for an empty argument - Matthew Flatt
13:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] fix `current-subprocess-custodian-mode' - Matthew Flatt
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13:16 dyoo: hi everyone; hope folks are having a good week
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13:17 vu3rdd: is there a way I can print to the console from a thread? My debug prints in the thread are not seen in the interaction window.
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13:17 dyoo: vu3rdd: so in drracket, the printfs in your thread aren't showing up?
13:18 vu3rdd: dyoo: no.
13:18 dyoo: vu3rdd: how about the logging mechanism?  http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/logging.html
13:19 vu3rdd: dyoo: thanks, I will hav a look.
13:19 dyoo: I think you can open up the log window in DrRacket; it should be under View/Show Log
13:20 dyoo: The thing about printf is that it might be buffered, so you might be not seeing output just because the buffer hasn't flushed yet
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13:20 dyoo: so I'd recommend either fprinting to standard error instead, or use the log-XXX functions instead
13:23 tonyg: or there's always (flush-output)
13:25 vu3rdd: dyoo: tonyg: thanks.
13:27 dyoo: did it work?
13:28 vu3rdd: dyoo: yes
13:29 dyoo: cool
13:29 vu3rdd: :)
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14:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9otlWw
14:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Move engines from mzlib/thread to racket/engine - Asumu Takikawa
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14:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Ah06-w
14:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] release notes update for stepper. - John Clements
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15:33 samth: eli, does the 'xrepl.rkt' test have some strange dependency on the environment?
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18:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/xjMPaQ
18:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] COM test updates - Matthew Flatt
18:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix for bytecode validator - Matthew Flatt
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19:19 PfhorSlayer: If I have a symbol like 'foo, is there a way to bind something to extract the "foo" and bind something to that variable?
19:20 PfhorSlayer: I want to have a let statement that binds something to the name of each symbol in a list
19:22 asumu: PfhorSlayer: that's technically do-able, but seems pretty kludgy. Why not just use real identifiers?
19:25 (quit) ski: Remote host closed the connection
19:27 PfhorSlayer: I basically am defining a set of characters that are part of a move, and each are given a user-defined name ('player, 'attacker, etc). Later in this I need to be able to do things with those characters by using the name the user defined. So I could have the 'player do something. The problem is with the way it's set up in order to get access to the object that 'player refers to, I have to pass
19:27 PfhorSlayer: "'player" into a function that figures out which actual object the 'player symbol refers to and returns that.
19:27 PfhorSlayer: so before doing anything with these characters each block of code typically starts with a let statement binding the return of that function to "player" and "attacker" etc
19:27 asumu: Why not just store them in a hash table or something?
19:28 PfhorSlayer: they are in a hash table, but at compile time we don't know the object
19:28 PfhorSlayer: only at run time
19:29 PfhorSlayer: hold on a second, got people here
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19:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/H_PegQ
19:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix coordinate computation for the new, big definitions/interactions labels - Robby Findler
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19:54 PfhorSlayer: sorry about that
19:54 PfhorSlayer: Back now.
19:55 PfhorSlayer: So the issue is that I have a list with symbols in it at compile time, and I want to run a preprocess over this list that will create a let statement that binds something to the name of each symbol in the list
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19:58 asumu: By "at compile time" you mean that you're writing a macro that gets a bunch of symbols from somewhere?
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20:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/XwihSA
20:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix bug in the computation to determine if the big interactions/definitions - Robby Findler
20:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] try out Asumu's suggestion, namely if there is a keyboard event, - Robby Findler
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20:09 PfhorSlayer: Yeah
20:10 PfhorSlayer: sorry, we compile racket code which generates code in our own scripting language
20:10 PfhorSlayer: by "compiling" I mean "running the racket code"
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20:22 asumu: So you want to generate a let statement in your target language? Doesn't quoting solve this kind of thing?
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20:22 asumu: (I'm assuming your scripting language has an interpreter or something and not implemented as a #lang)
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20:37 PfhorSlayer: Yeah, in the target language
20:37 PfhorSlayer: but the target language uses the same style of let statement as racket
20:37 PfhorSlayer: so I just need to generate a racket let statement
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20:43 PfhorSlayer: I guess what you're saying is that I'd have to write the let statement IN my target language, right?
20:43 PfhorSlayer: the compiler for teh target language interprets the racket syntax and builds an AST tree from it which it then compiles down
20:43 PfhorSlayer: I guess I could figure out how to build my own tree for the let statement and give it that?
20:44 PfhorSlayer: But what I'd rather do is have racket generate the let statement somehow...
20:44 PfhorSlayer: but that would require another phase of compilation
21:04 danl_ndi: dylan what on earth are you going
21:04 danl_ndi: doing
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22:28 PfhorSlayer: fun stuff!
22:43 asumu: eli: is it possible to get Racket mugs for your Zazzle store?
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23:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/3FJn9A
23:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] rewording of release notes message. - John Clements
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