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02:50 mithos28: who is the maintainer of the dict generic interface?
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06:26 MightyFoo: i have the gittiest version of racket -- how do i invoke jamesswaine's future browser?
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07:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/f6TW6Q
07:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Use `lazy` instead of `delay`, as recommended by Eli. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
07:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix error message for `find-system-path`. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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08:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/EAg2qQ
08:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] FFI repairs for 64-bit big-endian - Matthew Flatt
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08:53 samth: MightyFoo: if you have the very gittiest, then search the documentation for futures-visualizer
08:54 samth: or just do:
08:55 samth: (require futures-visualizer)
08:55 samth: (visualize-futures some-expr-with-futures)
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09:08 stamourv: mithos28: Re generic dicts: asumu and I.
09:10 samth: mithos28 (who's currently not here): the reason to use lazy-require is to avoid the cost of loading the implementation when running compiled programs
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09:47 tim-brown: tim@timlinux:~/racket/racket$ git pull
09:47 tim-brown: Already up-to-date.
09:47 tim-brown: tim@timlinux:~/racket/racket/src$ find . -name '*visuali*'
09:47 tim-brown: tim@timlinux:~/racket/racket/src$
09:47 tim-brown: (it's not in ~/racket/racket, neither)
09:47 tim-brown: :-(
09:48 tim-brown: samth: do i not understand something w.r.t getting this futures-visualiser?
09:48 tim-brown: z
09:50 samth: tim-brown: it should be in 'collects/futures-visualizer'
09:52 tim-brown: samth: where *is* the master git? i got mine from
09:52 tim-brown: git clone https://github.com/tim-brown/racket.git
09:53 samth: tim-brown: well, your fork is certainly not the master :)
09:53 samth: but you can get it from either github:plt/racket or from git.racket-lang.org
09:53 tim-brown: pants... thanks
09:53 tim-brown: so used to seeing my own name, i just ignore it!
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11:13 tim-brown: samth: thanks, am now fiddling with the future-visualizer
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11:17 tim-brown: night all
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13:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/pcCR7g
13:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Revert "racket/gui/init: module caching in the load handler" - Matthew Flatt
13:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] racket/gui/init: make load handler chain to original - Matthew Flatt
13:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] submodules: make .zo path stick for consistent independent loading - Matthew Flatt
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14:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/8ndE5w
14:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] typo - Robby Findler
14:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] remove the "dock/undock test report" menu items from the show menu - Robby Findler
14:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add support to the show menu item to make ordering the items - Robby Findler
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14:32 pmatey: Hi, I'd like to build a static analyzer for Racket. Is there a simpler intermediate form I can target?
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14:33 chimeracoder: pmatey: what do you mean by static analyzer?
14:33 chimeracoder: (er, what kind of static analysis are you doing?)
14:34 merijn: Is there a nice "racket for experienced programmers" tutorial/intro?
14:34 samth: pmatey: there are two possible ones
14:34 pmatey: chimeracoder: CESK style abstract interpreter
14:34 samth: one is fully-expanded programs
14:34 samth: the other is the racket vm bytecode
14:36 chimeracoder: pmatey: I ask because a surprising amount already exists (at least in part) with various packages/languages…. yours I'm not sure of, though
14:36 chimeracoder: merijn: are you familiar with other Lisp/Scheme dialects?
14:37 merijn: chimeracoder: I'm familiar with the whole Lisp concept, but I've never done any actual coding in a lisp (well, not counting 6 line snippets)
14:38 chimeracoder: The Racket documentation recommends reading SICP ('the wizard book') and using Racket as a Scheme
14:39 chimeracoder: I'd say it's worthwhile, since everyone should read SICP anyway, so you're killing two birds with one stone :-)
14:39 merijn: ok, I'll just stick with SICP then, thanks
14:39 stamourv: merijn: I recommend HTDP.
14:39 merijn: (I actually already started in SICP, but was just wondering if there was anything more appropriate)
14:39 stamourv: It's introductory, but it's much better than SICP.
14:40 pmatey: samth: I'm having trouble finding links that describe the vm bytecode and fully-expanded formats. Could you point me to any? Thanks.
14:40 samth: pmatey: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/syntax-model.html?q=fully%20expanded#%28part._fully-expanded%29
14:40 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7aotrww
14:41 samth: http://docs.racket-lang.org/raco/decompile.html?q=zo-parse&q=fully%20expanded#%28part._.Bytecode_.Representation%29
14:41 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6ln77xy
14:41 merijn: My biggest objection against SICP is that it moves quite slow
14:41 chimeracoder: How far into it are you?
14:42 merijn: I dunno how HTDP is in that regards.
14:42 chimeracoder: It's a slim book, sure, but it's *very* layered
14:42 merijn: End of chapter 2 begin chapter 3 I think?
14:43 chimeracoder: you can come back to it many times and still find it useful, particularly if you don't write in Lisp every day, so it's not as slow as it seems ;-)
14:43 chimeracoder: or rather, it has a lot in there, even if it doesn't seem so dense
14:43 merijn: It seems to cover a lot of basic computing theory and stuff that I already know and less the stuff I'd want to know for actually writing code. Maybe that's just the start, though
14:45 chimeracoder: meirjn: When beginning Lisp, it's easiest to 'forget' everything you already know and learn it again, because it's a big paradigm shift
14:46 chimeracoder: I don't remember which chapter is which in SICP, but you'll start to see it all emerge by the end
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14:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/MZVxug
14:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add a View menu item for the optimization coach - Robby Findler
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14:46 asumu2: merijn: for Racket, why not just read the Guide?
14:47 asumu2: (it is sort of an extended tutorial)
14:47 asumu2: (I agree a smaller tutorial would be nice...)
14:47 merijn: chimeracoder: Is the paradigm shift still that big after doing functional languages and compilers for a while?
14:48 chimeracoder: meirjn: I believe so. I'd done functional programming before learning Lisp, but the homoiconicity was new (and in my mind, that's the most important part of Lisp)
14:49 asumu2: pmatey: just curious, what kind of analysis were you interested in writing?
14:50 merijn: asumu2: I guess the GUide could work. I'll just shut up and keep reading now ;)
14:51 asumu2: merijn: if you see any deficiencies in it as a tutorial/guide, feel free to suggest improvements too.
14:52 chimeracoder: asumu2: One thing that I noticed is that there's not really a condensed Racket migration guide for Common Lispers
14:52 pmatey: asumu2: I want to build an abstract interpreter that will concretely interpret parts of the program that are guaranteed to terminate.
14:52 chimeracoder: I ended up just using the Guide, which worked fine, but it could be a bit more streamlined
14:52 chimeracoder: I may work on that myself
14:53 asumu2: chimeracoder: yeah, patches welcome. :)
14:53 pmatey: asumu2: where that guarantee of termination comes from using racket's Datalog module
14:54 asumu2: Neat.
14:55 pmatey: Does anybody know of a CESK style machine that runs some variant of Racket? That would really bootstrap my project.
14:56 pmatey: asumu2: Thanks. It is really an idea of Matthias's that I figured I take a crack at.
14:57 asumu2: Closest thing might be the Redex model of the Racket VM? https://github.com/plt/racket/tree/master/collects/redex/examples/racket-machine
14:57 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/d3rktbq
14:58 asumu2: chimeracoder: and yeah, in general it would be useful to have "Racket for X" guides for all X.
14:58 asumu2: (insert liberal interpretation of "for all X")
15:00 chimeracoder: I think I'll try and do the CL part of that "\forall X" this weekend… is the template for the existing doc format in the repo?
15:04 stamourv: chimeracoder: The docs are written in scribble.
15:04 stamourv: (Racket's document writing DSL.)
15:04 stamourv: rudybot: doc scribble/manual
15:04 rudybot: stamourv: not found in any library's documentation: scribble/manual
15:04 stamourv: rudybot: (require scribble/manual)
15:04 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
15:04 stamourv: rudybot: doc scribble/manual
15:04 rudybot: stamourv: not found in any library's documentation: scribble/manual
15:04 stamourv: Hmm.
15:04 stamourv: chimeracoder: Anyway, look for scribble/manual.
15:05 chimeracoder: Yeah, I found it
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15:05 stamourv: The code for the guide and other parts of the docs are in collects/scribblings
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15:08 chimeracoder: Heh, I wish I'd known about Racket ages ago… I once wrote a Lisp DSL to simplify my LaTeX, and I'm realizing that I basically reinvented half of this :-D
15:09 chimeracoder: Racket's the Lisp I always needed, never had
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15:17 stamourv: chimeracoder: Well, you got it now. :D
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17:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/LjrE5Q
17:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] revert use of `lazy-require' in `racket/match' implementation - Matthew Flatt
17:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix related to recent module-resolver change - Matthew Flatt
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19:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/e4RJeA
19:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Post-release version for the v5.3 release - Ryan Culpepper
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19:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to release: http://git.io/TMxiWw
19:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] Alpha version number for the v5.3 release - Ryan Culpepper
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22:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/A-Ktgw
22:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] bring the language test up to date with the latest error messages - Robby Findler
22:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjusted the repl test suite for the new error messages - Robby Findler
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23:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/j-GKBA
23:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] module lang test now up to date with error message changes - Robby Findler
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