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01:26 neilv: ok, mcfly now will let you use @ syntax if you have "#lang at-exp"
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01:37 asumu: neilv: :D
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09:49 petrum: hello, I need help using drracket; I'm first time on this char room, I hope I'm in the right place...
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09:51 petrum: I installed the latest version (v5.2.1); I get the error "module: this function is not defined" when I only type "#lang racket" in the top area...
09:51 petrum: I'm stuck now...
09:52 petrum: any idea what's wrong?
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10:12 soegaard: petrum: What language is DrRacket displaying in the lower left corner?
10:12 soegaard: petrum: If you want to use #lang it should say "Determine language from source"
10:20 mungojelly: Having watched this IRC channel for a few weeks I'm going to opine that that's a misfeature. :(  If there's an easy menu-driven version for beginners, it shouldn't be its own modal complication, it should simply change the #lang line.
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10:33 petrum: here is a screenshot: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/65655385/drracket-error01.png
10:34 petrum: I got it! many thanks for help! It works now!
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10:43 petrum: BTW it works great now!  I hope to get my kids from nintendo and facebook, and introduce them into programming...
10:47 soegaard: petrum:  KIds? Take a look at: http://www.bootstrapworld.org/materials/
10:51 asumu: mungojelly: this is true and in the long run I think it will work like that.
10:51 asumu: But unfortunately there is a lot of infrastructure built up around the teaching languages.
10:52 asumu: And if we rip it out and replace it, it better work very well (since many schools depend on this)
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10:58 asumu: (also a lot of this would be solved if we had a screenshot-based tutorial, I think)
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11:01 Shambles_: petrum: I don't think it would have got me off my NES, and I've never had any interest in Facebook, but I wish I'd learned Racket, or some flavor of Lisp, as my first programming language, rather than BASIC.
11:03 Shambles_: It would probably have stopped me from spending ~3 years learning why structured programming was a good idea the hard way. ;)
11:09 petrum: thanks everybody for you thoughts!
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13:40 aidy: To 'add a type' to a hash table, would you just pack it in a struct and use gen:dict?
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13:41 offby1 stares blankly
13:41 offby1: what does 'add a type' mean?
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13:45 aidy: offby1: e.g. function (make-special-dict ...) which is just produces a hash table, but you want to have a predicate special-dict? for it too
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13:47 aidy: -is
13:48 offby1: gosh, I've never heard of make-special-dict
13:49 offby1: oh I think I see what you mean.
13:49 aidy: *not sure if serious*
13:49 aidy: :D
13:50 offby1: I was, but I misunderstood.  You want to make a new type that acts like a hash table but _also_ has its own predicate
13:50 aidy: indeed
13:50 offby1: Funny, I've thought about that too, and I can't think of an easy way to do it.
13:50 offby1: You can of course use structs
13:50 aidy: using structs isn't that hard I think
13:50 offby1: I hope you don't have to write wrapper functions for every existing hash-table function, though; that'd be tedious
13:50 mithos28: offby1: chaperone + impersonator property
13:51 mithos28: oh sorry aidy you asked the original question
13:52 aidy: thanks
13:52 mithos28: Why do you want to do this?
13:53 mithos28: because depending on what you want it to do, you may lose the impersonator property
13:54 mithos28: like passing an imutable special-hash through hash/c with non flat contracts
13:54 aidy: I have an old library here http://synthcode.com/scheme/fmt/ which does all kinds of not-so-great things like implementing an abstract data type using vector and then actually using vector? to check if an object is of that type
13:55 aidy: so hash-set wouldn't work?
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13:56 mithos28: hash-set should work, but I don't like that it does
13:56 mithos28: how chaperones work on immutable hashes has issues, since it stays through functional updat (IIRC)
13:58 aidy: I see
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14:32 offby1 never knew about chaperones, impersonators, and cross-dressers
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19:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 5 new commits to master: http://git.io/1YDY9Q
19:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Use promises for `current-type-names`. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
19:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Require binding of `add-mod`. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
19:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Intern `Struct` types properly wrt. identifiers. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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19:34 neilv: meow has an idle timer full-buffer scan that it uses to do tokenizing for precise syntax coloring, paren-matching, etc
19:35 neilv: i came up with an indent algorithm, and have been adding it to that idle scan
19:36 neilv: it's a lot of work. there is a ton of stuff in the racket reader
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20:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eM94eA
20:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Mutable data at typed boundaries can't have flat contracts. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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22:29 mithos28: ugh, drracket is ugly at high dpi
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22:39 asumu: mithos28: running it on a retina display?
22:39 mithos28: Yep, submitting a bug now
22:40 mithos28: it does subpixel rendering and then blows it up by a factor of 4
22:40 mithos28: or 2 depending on how you count
22:41 mithos28: Now matthew has an excuse that he needs a new computer
22:44 mithos28: This new machine can now actually run drracket and a web browser at the same time, which is nice
22:44 asumu: Hah.
22:45 asumu: Yeah, I can't run both on my laptop. 2GB just isn't enough.
22:45 mithos28: I had 3 and it was bad
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22:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/jfSjnA
22:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix documentation of `Sequenceof` type. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
22:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Vector fixes. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
22:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Don't shortcut simple `letrec` forms that aren't `lambda`s. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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23:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2UcUsw
23:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Properly handle quoted constants with bad expected types. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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23:34 eli: mithos28_: And with that I suddenly realize why so many ios things had updates specific to "retina display".
23:34 eli: (And of course, yet one more reason to curse apple as the bad company that it is...)
23:35 mithos28_: I don't understand the exact cause of the bug, but I assume it is because drracket is using old gui apis
23:36 eli: mithos28_: Perhaps -- the obnoxious thing is that increased resolution should not lead to such problems.
23:37 mithos28_: eli: its not increased resolution, its the seperation of points from pixels
23:37 eli: That's a concept that is almost as ancient as x11.
23:38 eli: The only new thing they did was add pixels...
23:38 mithos28_: No, because If I use the full resolution drracket doesn't have the issue
23:39 mithos28_: Say the width of my screen is 3000 pixels
23:39 mithos28_: There are only 1500 distinct points that my mouse can be at
23:40 mithos28_: per horizontal line that is
23:40 eli sighs
23:40 eli: And that improves things ... how?
23:40 mithos28_: It looks oh so pretty
23:40 eli: It looks pretty that your mouse cannot be at every other pixel?
23:41 mithos28_: oh that point. I'm not sure, but text at normal point font is readable.
23:41 mithos28_: And that is less so at huge resolutions.
23:42 eli: mithos28_: So the bottom line is still just more pixels.
23:42 eli: And a bad gui layer that does the wrong thing.
23:42 mithos28_: yes
23:42 eli: And a bad company that forces developers to deal with it...
23:43 eli: (But I somehow doubt that apple fans will agree to all of this, including FF.)
23:43 mithos28_: yep, stay on the upgrade wagon
23:43 mithos28_: I know chrome has had issues with the resolution and their font engine
23:45 eli: I basically believe that such a simple issue of upgrading the number of pixels on your screen should not have affected anyone, except maybe for artists that are responsible for non-svg images who would want to re-rended images.
23:45 eli: But what do I know.
23:45 mithos28_: Its not that, its turning on and actually using points != display pixels.
23:46 eli: Similar to the sound story, where apparently you need 10 pages of code just to output a wave, compared to a one line thing on Windows.
23:46 mithos28_: If I switch to 1:1 mode, its fine. Its not the resolution, its what it does because of the resolution.
23:47 eli: mithos28_: By "points" I thought that you were talking about plain DPI, which is not at all a new concept; but that thing about the mouse that you said is not it.
23:47 eli: And the fact that DPI existed for decades means that still there should not have been changes in code.
23:48 mithos28_: The coordinate space of the mouse is no longer the same density as the coordinate space of the monitor
23:48 mithos28_: I think that is the clearest way to say it
23:49 eli: Then that is still plain dpi.
23:49 eli: (But whatever.  I'll be happy when they'll finally crash and burn.)
23:50 mithos28_: Not likely to happen soon
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23:51 eli: IMO, it's sooner than apple fans would like to admit.
23:51 eli: At least on the ios vs android front,
23:51 eli: and that's big enough to get the whole evil tower down.
23:53 mithos28_: I don't see android winning out all that soon
23:54 chimeracoder: mithos28_: define "winning" - I think Google's metric of success for Android is very different from Apple's for iOS
23:54 chimeracoder: Apple wants iOS to be a platform for definitive devices
23:55 chimeracoder: Google wants Android to be a universal common platform for *every* kind of device (like household appliances, etc.)
23:55 mithos28_: I meant to be seen as the main smart phone os
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23:56 chimeracoder: Yeah, I know what you mean; I'm just pointing out that Google's goals for Android are much broader than that
23:56 chimeracoder: (and FWIW, Android's already got the majority of the market)
23:57 mithos28_: chimeracoder: for smart phones, or feature phones?
23:57 chimeracoder: To be honest, I'm not sure I could tell you the difference anymore
23:58 chimeracoder: even some of the really cheap phones these days have more functionality than a Blackberry did ten years ago
23:58 eli: mithos28_: Even with smartphones -- there's the question of who's winning the phones, with apple (& fans) coming up with creative ways to excuse the numbers for the reality they want to see,
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23:58 mithos28_: and so does Google
23:59 chimeracoder: mithos28_: not really, Android's far ahead no matter how you look at it; just with a smaller margin if you exclude feature phones
23:59 eli: but that makes little difference since they bottom line is that ios is going down and android is going up, so whatever difference was had shrunk to the point where it's *kind of* debatable, but it *will* continue.