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00:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/R2L5Lw
00:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Provide `main' too, since it's used by redex/tests/run-tests. - Eli Barzilay
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00:28 mithos28: Are there any good docs on how to implement a good hashcode for prop:equal+hash? Especially with regards to combining hashes of subparts.
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00:52 mithos28: Does (and (not (chaperone? a)) (not (chaperone? b)) (equal? a b)) imply (chaperone-of? a b)? The docs seem to imply that but I am not getting that in my program
00:54 mithos28: It looks like it might be related to my custom equality function, as the type of objects I am comparing are structs with prop:equal+hash.
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01:32 adu: hi!
01:32 mithos28: adu: hello
01:33 adu: mithos28: equal+hash is a nice place to be
01:33 adu: are you talking about racket?
01:33 mithos28: yes
01:33 adu: oh I'm talking about #scheme
01:34 adu: I know a tiny bit of racket
01:34 adu: but mostly scheme
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11:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Wd1aGA
11:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix future visualizer not showing requested size for allocation events - James Swaine
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12:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mTs29A
12:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Disable Optimization Coach in the student languages. - Vincent St-Amour
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13:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/3QpbFg
13:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [Distributed Places] place functions now work with distributed places - Kevin Tew
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14:16 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
14:16 (names) -: gabot jtpercon gf3 MayDaniel soegaard masm jrslepak jao surrounder nilyaK mceier stamourv Shambles_ dzhus imami|afk Shviller basepi m4burns bitonic eli stchang eMBee cdidd danl_ndi BeLucid_ ivan\ DrDuck1 asumu mario-goulart DraX Nisstyre peeeep sizz em ppilate rapacity noam ivan` cataska acarrico elliottcable Guest56248 SeanTAllen dsantiago SHODAN samth jrslepak_neu ski Araq karswell Shvillr errstr hyko danking ozzloy rotty dspt offby1 igibson @ChanServ
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17:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4xlxjw
17:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add scribble support for additional letters from the Czech alphabet. - Vincent St-Amour
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17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/VKU03w
17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Rename `type-decl` submodule to `#%type-decl`. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Delay actual initialization of type environment. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Reduce some dependencies of Typed Racket prims. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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17:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5GWBkA
17:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] futures: fix a problem related to lightweight continuations - Matthew Flatt
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18:03 tonyg: How do I use quasipatterns in match with unquote-splicing?
18:04 tonyg: I'm trying the following:
18:04 tonyg: (match `(1 2 3) [`(1 ,@(list-rest vs)) vs])
18:04 tonyg: ... expecting vs to contain '(2 3)
18:04 tonyg: but it complains with
18:04 tonyg: match: non-list pattern inside unquote-splicing
18:05 stamourv: rudybot: (match `(1 2 3) [`(1 . ,(list-rest vs)) vs])
18:05 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
18:05 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: (2 3)
18:05 stamourv: tonyg: ^
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18:33 tonyg: stamourv: thanks. hmm still can't figure out how to use ,@ in match but now i have a workaround so that's ok
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18:34 samth: tonyg: ,@x ...
18:34 tonyg: with literal ... ?
18:35 tonyg: it's weird that there's no symmetry (match `(,a ,@as) [`(,a ,@as) ...])
18:37 samth: i didn't design this syntax
18:37 tonyg: heh
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19:18 jeapostrophe: asumu: ping?
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19:29 jeapostrophe: asumu: nevermind :)
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19:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/WPnhOQ
19:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Changing contracts on gl-context<%> and applying it to the gl-context% object. - Jay McCarthy
19:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] new email setup - Jay McCarthy
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19:57 asumu: jeapostrophe: I sent an e-mail response.
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20:33 asumu: jeapostrophe: ah, thanks for catching the mis-interfacing.
20:33 jeapostrophe: very good :)
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22:25 chimeracoder: I've never really used Racket/Scheme-style macros before... could someone tell me the way to modify function definitions something like this? http://pastebin.com/mWkxA6iM
22:26 chimeracoder: (type signatures just for clarity)
22:26 offby1: I'd consider trying "define-syntax-rule"; it's super-easy
22:27 chimeracoder: You know, I just realized that's not a great example; what I'm trying to do actually involves a recursive call
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22:28 chimeracoder: hmm, maybe macros aren't what I'm looking for...
22:28 lewis1711: sometimes I dunno when to use macros and when not to
22:28 chimeracoder: Okay, here's a better example
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22:30 offby1: lewis1711: if you don't need a macro, don't use one.
22:30 offby1: Just say "no" to macros.
22:30 chimeracoder: offby1: well, the point is I'm not sure :-p
22:30 offby1: This is your brain on drugs.  etc.
22:30 offby1: chimeracoder: given an example.
22:30 offby1: I shall enlighten you because I'm bored :)
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22:31 lewis1711: but abusing macros is the whole point of dynamically typed languages
22:31 chimeracoder: http://pastebin.com/DnPEtFcr
22:31 chimeracoder: Now there, I know it's kind of too magick-y
22:31 offby1: lewis1711: most dynamically typed languages don't _have_ macros
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22:32 lewis1711: yeah but they're not worth using
22:32 chimeracoder: but in this context, it makes more sense to be able to apply a function to an atom or to a list, the way a language like R does
22:32 offby1: OK, what am I looking at?
22:32 chimeracoder: offby1: ah, crap, I messed up the arguments >.<
22:33 chimeracoder is tired
22:33 chimeracoder: one second
22:33 offby1: rudybot: (define (automap func thing) (if list? thing) (map func thing) (func thing))
22:33 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
22:33 rudybot: *offby1: error: #<undefined>:1:29: if: bad syntax (must have an "else" expression) in: (if list? thing)
22:33 offby1: rudybot: (define (automap func thing) (if list? thing (map func thing) (func thing)) )
22:33 rudybot: *offby1: error: #<undefined>:1:29: if: bad syntax (has 4 parts after keyword) in: (if list? thing (map func thing) (func thing))
22:33 offby1: *sigh
22:33 offby1: rudybot: (define (automap func thing) (if (list? thing) (map func thing) (func thing)) )
22:33 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
22:33 chimeracoder: offby1: okay, but what I want to do is have the if-else inserted into the function definition
22:34 offby1: rudybot: (automap add1 3)
22:34 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 4
22:34 offby1: rudybot: (automap add1 (list 3 4 5))
22:34 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: (4 5 6)
22:34 offby1: chimeracoder: I have no idea what you mean.  Give an example or something.
22:35 mithos28: Note that auto map is a bad idea because it dosen't allow you to apply length to a list of numbers
22:35 chimeracoder: Alright, so in R (language for statistics), you can have an operation that is applied either to an atom (scalar) or to a vector
22:35 chimeracoder: without prior knowledge of which it is
22:35 offby1 stares blankly
22:35 mithos28: can you have vectors of vectors?
22:36 offby1: of course
22:36 chimeracoder: mithos28: absolutely
22:36 lewis1711: does R even have scalars then? maybe they just treat scalars as vectors of length 1
22:36 chimeracoder: lewis1711: that's how MATLAB does it
22:36 lewis1711: what, so how does function application work?
22:37 lewis1711: f(x) - if x is a vector, does it map?
22:37 chimeracoder: lewis1711: not all functions implicitly map
22:37 mithos28: If I have a function which works on a vector, and I apply it to a vector of vectors, What happens?
22:37 chimeracoder: mithos28: it is implicitly mapped over the vector of vectors, so it's applied to each vector and returns a vector of whatever type the function returns
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22:38 mithos28: but if it was a vector of numbers it wouldn't?
22:39 chimeracoder: er, then it would throw an error, I guess
22:39 chimeracoder: it's not defined for all operations
22:39 mithos28: But I gave it a vector, and it works on vectors
22:39 chimeracoder: it's been a while since I dove that deep into R, so I'm a bit hazy on the details, but it works well for basic things, like
22:39 chimeracoder: x <- c(1,2,3,4,5)
22:40 chimeracoder: x is now a list
22:40 chimeracoder: y <- x + 1
22:40 mithos28: what is c?
22:40 chimeracoder: y is now c(2,3,4,5,5)
22:40 chimeracoder: mithos28: just concatenate - list creation
22:40 chimeracoder: or like
22:40 chimeracoder: I can do
22:40 chimeracoder: x && y
22:41 chimeracoder: and if x and y are boolean (scalars), I get a single boolean response
22:41 chimeracoder: if they're boolean vectors, I get a vector of booleans, which is the result of applying n && m pairwise for each n,m pair in x,y
22:41 mithos28: does length(x) => 5
22:42 chimeracoder: sorry, I meant y results in c(2,3,4,5,6)
22:42 chimeracoder: but yes, the length of the result is the same
22:42 mithos28: what about length(c(x,y))? Does it go to 2 or c(5,5).
22:42 chimeracoder: neither; I think that's undefined
22:43 chimeracoder: but on the other hand
22:43 chimeracoder: x <- TRUE
22:43 chimeracoder: y <- c(TRUE, TRUE, FALSE, FALSE, TRUE)
22:43 chimeracoder: x && y  ----- this would return the pairwise application of (TRUE && z) for all z in y
22:44 mithos28: This doesn't seem to scale well, it assumes that lists are different than other kinds of values.
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22:45 chimeracoder: mithos28: it doesn't work for arbitrary functions, no, but it works well in specific domains
22:45 chimeracoder: which is why it would be helpful here
22:45 mithos28: ok, I buy that
22:49 lewis1711: someone should make a java port of racket so I can use something better than ruby
22:49 mithos28: lewis1711: Use rhino and whalesong
22:49 (quit) chimeracoder: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
22:49 lewis1711: huh, look at that
22:50 lewis1711: I wonder if that's feasible
22:50 mithos28: well whalesong doesn't support racket/base yet, but its pretty good other than that
22:51 asumu: Is it just #%kernel or a different subset?
22:51 asumu: (i'm guessing smaller since there are like 1064 primitives there)
22:51 mithos28: its larger than #%kernel, in terms of syntax
22:51 mithos28: but not all the primitives
22:52 mithos28: I think it is enough to run world/universe programs
22:52 asumu: Nice.
22:52 mithos28: but I haven't talked with danny about it in a year
22:52 mithos28: but the page still says support for racket/base coming
22:54 mithos28: asumu: I figured out that my solution for dict/c on immutable dictionaries won't work
22:55 mithos28: chaperones are wierd, and treat hashes specially
22:55 lewis1711: wonder how hard it'd be to write a jvm backend
22:55 lewis1711: I mean there are programemrs now who think clojure is a good language
22:55 mithos28: lewis1711: Depends on what you want to be able to support
22:55 asumu: IIRC, it has been tried and it's not easy.
22:55 lewis1711: imagine if they had racket
22:55 mithos28: continuations are hard to implement on most machines
22:55 lewis1711: ah
22:55 asumu: Oh, actually I think they tried .NET. Not JVM.
22:56 mithos28: unless it was designed for it
22:56 lewis1711: some poor grad student should do it. hell I'd volunteer that for a project if my marks weren't so bad
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22:57 mithos28: The hard part is higher order functions (going racket -> native -> racket) and then capturing the continuation
22:58 mithos28: You need to be able to have a machine which supports that
22:59 asumu: mithos28: what's the special handling of hashes?
22:59 mithos28: Did you see my post to the list?
23:00 mithos28: dev-list
23:00 mithos28: (chaperone-of? (hash 'a 'b) (hash 'a 'b)) => #t
23:00 mithos28: But that is not true for other data types if they define their own equality
23:02 mithos28: in particular free-id-tables need their own custom equality check, to not check equality of the identifiers but free-id=?
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23:04 asumu: Ah, hadn't read that e-mail yet. Will read it now.
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