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01:43 vivi_: hi guys
01:43 vivi_: recently i get intresting on the graph database
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01:44 Fare: which graph database?
01:44 vivi_: and i find a perfect one called AllegroGraph
01:44 vivi_: it is produce by the franz
01:44 vivi_: it support common lisp
01:45 vivi_: i wonder if there is any one can support Racket
01:45 vivi_: who can give me an advice
01:47 vivi_: i do not know how you think about the difference between key/vaule, ralational,graph databases
01:48 vivi_: but i think the graph database is so nature so powerful and can be an mainfreme
01:49 Fare: vivi: give a look at datomic
01:49 Fare: for the design
01:49 vivi_: but the neo4j and others are all rwitten in java
01:49 Fare: you could probably implement the same design in racket
01:49 Fare: especially since there's already a datalog for racket
01:50 vivi_: do the datomic support racket?
01:50 Fare: probably not yet
01:50 Fare: but go read the whitepaper
01:50 Fare: probably not that hard to add client support, and not that hard to reimplement a server
01:50 Fare: even a compatible server
01:51 vivi_: but that sound very hard for me , because i am new to racket
01:52 vivi_: i am thinking about whether turn to the common lisp for the covinience or seeking some alternative in racket
01:53 vivi_: is there any advice?
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01:55 vivi_: hi Fare
01:57 vivi_: if i dont want use a rdbms with the racket development,it there some libary for the key/value store database?
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02:02 vivi_: why so quient?
02:03 vivi_: do my question stupid enough?
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02:13 vivi_: if anyone want  or plan to write a graph database libary,i can give a hand
02:13 vivi_: use the racket
02:20 vivi_: nobody?
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04:57 ppilate: hi
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12:52 tim-brown: night all
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14:20 soegaard: Fancy a puzzle?
14:20 soegaard: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11400712/how-to-find-the-minimum-positive-number-that-added-to-1-0-gives-something-larger
14:20 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/c6t9qrk
14:23 jonrafkind: isnt the answer 1?
14:24 dyoo: ?!  This has got to be a joke... right?
14:24 jonrafkind: (define (epsilon x) 1)
14:24 dyoo: no one can be that silly
14:24 dyoo: I refuse to believe it.  :)
14:24 jonrafkind: oh positive number, not integer
14:24 jonrafkind: so its asking what the smallest representable number is
14:24 jonrafkind: well i guess theres no answer since racket supports infinite precision right?
14:25 jonrafkind: in fortran is probably makes more sense since its restricted to 32-bit floating point values or some such thing
14:26 samth: soegaard: in racket, there's no such number
14:26 samth: b/c of exact rationals
14:32 dyoo: Hmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_epsilon seems appropriate
14:37 dyoo: git clone git://gist.github.com/3078092.git gist-3078092
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14:43 jonrafkind: how do you get scribble to cite things as [1] instead of (Foobar 2010)
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14:58 dyoo: jonrafkind: do any of the functions described in http://docs.racket-lang.org/scriblib/autobib.html help?
14:58 jonrafkind: no
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15:14 dyoo: darn... haven't been able to figure out out yet.  Sorry jon
15:27 jonrafkind: hm if i could get access to the auto-bib-key maybe I could do it, but its not provided from autobib.rkt
15:30 dyoo: I expected to be able to do something at the resolve pass, but dunno how to get at the bibliography yet at that time
15:31 Fare: jonrafkind, if you find a solution, I'm interested
15:33 jonrafkind: hm, maybe i should make a new abstraction layer that can use either bib-entry or make-bib so I can switch between them easily
15:47 samth: dyoo: you should get whalesong listed here: <dyoo> jonrafkind: do any of the functions described in http://docs.racket-lang.org/scriblib/autobib.html help?
15:47 samth: damn irc client
15:47 samth: dyoo: you should get whalesong listed here: http://ceaude.twoticketsplease.de/js-lisps.html
15:54 stamourv: samth: I told Moritz (and gave him a bunch more implementations), but he never updated his thing.
15:54 samth: ah, too bad
16:01 ppilate: Hello, samth, I have a question which is offtopic in this channel. May I pm you?
16:01 samth: ppilate: ok
16:01 samth: unless it's spam
16:02 ppilate: nah
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16:06 dyoo: samth: thanks for the reference; I'll send Moritz a ping to see if I can get Whalesong listed
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17:02 soegaard: samth: Should have explicitly stated that I was looking for floats.
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17:04 soegaard: dyoo: thanks for the link to machine epsilon. Weird. Until now I thought machine epsilon was the smallest positive representable number. Turns out that's not the case.
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17:19 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
17:19 (names) -: gabot cdidd djcoin gf3 Blkt sstrickl jonrafkind BeLucid masm mceier jrslepak jao jesyspa zyoung Shviller em bitonic ppilate Fare soegaard Shambles_1 stchang rapacity noam ivan` cataska acarrico elliottcable Guest56248 SeanTAllen dsantiago SHODAN eli samth jrslepak_neu stamourv ski Araq karswell imami|afk Shvillr errstr surrounder maahes aidy hyko danking basepi ozzloy rotty dspt offby1 igibson @ChanServ ivan\ DrDuck anonus sethalves m4burns s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_
17:19 (names) -: spanner tewk lusory otterdam bartbes asumu antono cky bremner chandler rudybot DraX mario-goulart friscosam jamessan Cryovat eMBee
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17:34 jonrafkind: actually it seems like I have to set up the keys to cite to be numbers. (bib-entry #:key "1") (cite "1") to get "blah [1]"
17:34 jonrafkind: #:key "foo" then (cite "foo") results in "blah [foo]"
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17:50 Fare: thanks!
17:50 Fare: do you have to number them manually?
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18:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/Mw-RrQ
18:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix inconsistent docs - Asumu Takikawa
18:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] racket/draw: clean up object name hacks - Asumu Takikawa
18:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] racket/draw: Use interface contracts - Asumu Takikawa
18:05 (part) RacketCommitBot
18:10 soegaard: Is there something similar to https://gist.github.com/3079344 for Typed Racket?
18:13 samth: soegaard: isn't that something that would work with TR?
18:16 soegaard: samth: I got this error:
18:16 soegaard: Type Checker: Cannot apply expression of type Any, since it is not a function type in: (define: (f) : Real (tagged-begin (return 42) 43.0))
18:16 soegaard: https://gist.github.com/8d4f3337d9921a586edd
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18:17 soegaard: Well, the 42 shoud have been a 42.0, but the error persists.
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18:20 samth: soegaard: yeah, that's going to be hard to make work
18:21 samth: lots of un-annotated variables
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18:24 soegaard: Is the best route to change the expansion? The types of the lambdas in the expansion are simple (I think).
18:25 samth: soegaard: the best route is not to expand into lambdas that take arguments ...
18:27 soegaard: Well, only return takes arguments. And that argument must be of the same type as the result. So perhaps if I let the user explicitly give the type which tagged-begin is supposed to return ?
18:28 samth: soegaard: that would work
18:28 soegaard: samth: Okay. I'll give it a try tomorrow.Thanks.
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19:00 dgs: i'm trying to use command line racket (rather than the drracket gui), and am having issues getting it to load the racket libraries (i think)
19:00 dgs: eg, I have no (check-expect) etc
19:01 dgs: https://gist.github.com/7c9eabe60bcdcefbf819 <-- how I'm trying to do it
19:01 dgs: can anyone see anything obvious I'm doing wrong?
19:04 (quit) soegaard: Quit: soegaard
19:07 bremner: dgs: try putting what you want to run in a file with a #lang
19:15 dgs: yeah, tried playing with #lang - i'm trying to use it as a repl though
19:15 dgs: specifically - sending chunks of code from vim via slime.vim
19:15 bremner: oh.
19:16 bremner: well, good luck ;)
19:16 bremner: you might check out xrepl
19:16 dgs: using #lang from within racket by itself doesn't seem to be supported - or at least I get:
19:16 dgs: #lang racket
19:16 dgs: stdin::65: read: #lang not enabled in the current context
19:16 dgs: 
19:16 bremner: no, you can't use #lang from the repl
19:16 bremner: you need something like ,enter
19:17 dgs: k
19:17 dgs: I'll have a look at xrepl
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19:20 dgs: mmm. xrepl is definintly a step further :p
19:20 dgs: ,enter racket seems to get me into a racket mode
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19:21 dgs: just seems to be doing something weird with check-expect - the last ) won't close off the expression
19:21 dgs: racket/main> (require htdp/testing)
19:21 dgs: racket/main> (check-expect 1 2)
19:21 dgs: racket/main> )
19:21 dgs: ; readline-input:12:0: read: unexpected `)' [,bt for context]
19:21 dgs: other stuff seems to be working fine
19:21 dgs: racket/main> (list 1 2)
19:21 dgs: '(1 2)
19:29 (nick) samth -> samth_away
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19:35 yoklov: dgs: err
19:35 yoklov: that looks right?
19:35 yoklov: you have a ) that didn't have a ( before it
19:36 dgs: well, yeah
19:36 dgs: but . . . (check-expect 1 2) was not being run
19:37 dgs: that should raise an error shouldn't it?
19:40 asumu: dgs: if you are using the teaching languages, you should use DrRacket.
19:40 asumu: The teaching languages are not intended to be used at the REPL.
19:41 asumu: If you want unit testing but aren't using the teaching languages, try (require rackunit)
19:41 asumu: rudybot: (require rackunit)
19:41 rudybot: asumu: Done.
19:41 asumu: rudybot: (check-equal? 1 2)
19:41 rudybot: asumu: ; stderr: "--------------------\nFAILURE\nname:       check-equal?\nlocation:   (#<undefined> 1 0 1 18)\nexpression: (check-equal? 1 2)\nactual:     1\nexpected:   2\n\nCheck failure\n--------------------\n"
19:41 asumu: rudybot: (check-equal? 1 1)
19:41 rudybot: asumu: Done.
19:44 dgs: well, i'm happy to run the teaching languages - (i'm working thru how to design programs 2nd ed)
19:44 dgs: the aim is just to not have to use the drracket gui
19:45 dgs: so you're saying that's not really possible with the teaching languages?
19:47 asumu: dgs: Yes. Besides, you'll want DrRacket to show images and such for HtDP2e exercises.
19:48 asumu: (IIRC, there is a plan to eventually make the teaching languages work as #lang-based extensions)
19:48 asumu: (and then it might work fine at the REPL---minus images and so on)
19:48 dgs: if I run the code from a file from within racket command line, it'll fire up the world programs at least...
19:48 dgs: hmm
19:48 dgs: bugger
19:49 dgs: that's the worlds most painful editor =/
19:49 dgs: guess I'll just have to put up with it
19:49 dgs: thanks for helping though =)
19:51 yoklov: dgs: what's the most painful editor, drracket?
19:51 dgs: yoklov: yeah
19:51 dgs: i just find it very frustrating
19:51 yoklov: there's always… you know…
19:51 yoklov: (emacs)
19:51 dgs: hah
19:51 dgs: !
19:51 dgs: i can't emac
19:51 dgs: i've tried
19:52 dgs: slime.vim works well with lisp - so thought I'd try it with racket
19:52 yoklov: drracket was my gateway drug to emacs
19:52 dgs: does emacs handle all the images etc?
19:52 asumu: I use evil-mode in emacs.
19:52 asumu: (best vim emulation I've found)
19:52 yoklov: dgs: nah, if you need that you're stuck with drracket
19:52 yoklov: though
19:53 dgs: yeah, evil-mode was passable. there was always something that kept dragging me back to vim
19:53 yoklov: you can use geiser-mode+gracket and write some commands that open up any type of image you pass them in a frame%
19:53 asumu: dgs: so you could probably work through HtDP2e using #lang racket if you really wanted.
19:53 asumu: The caveat being the curriculum isn't designed with that in mind.
19:54 yoklov: if i'm doing gui dev i usually end up back in drracket cursing about the lack of paredit mode
19:54 dgs: paredit?
19:55 yoklov: it's amazing.
19:56 yoklov: it balances your parentheses for you
19:56 yoklov: and more.
19:56 dgs: ahh. just adds them in when you hit enter?
19:56 yoklov: it prevents you from ever having an unbalanced s-expression
19:56 asumu: dgs: the slimv plugin for vim comes with a paredit mode. It's not as good as the emacs one.
19:57 asumu: (but it mostly works)
19:57 yoklov: as a result you think about your operations differently
19:57 yoklov: it really hammers home the whole code=data thing
19:57 yoklov: and just makes me much less insane when it comes to balancing my parentheses.
19:58 asumu: And yeah, it'd be nice if DrRacket had a paredit plugin. I think DivaScheme has something like it, but I'm not sure you can just use that feature.
19:59 yoklov: you can't :(
19:59 asumu: (patches/planet packages accepted :p)
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20:02 yoklov: i considered trying to port paredit mode from elisp to racket, but drracket's way of doing things is so radically different that it wouldn't be simple at all.
20:02 yoklov: or at least, i wouldn't know where to begin.
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20:06 asumu: Maybe you could focus on getting one function working at a time.
20:07 asumu: (like just get paren insertion working or whatever)
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20:18 yoklov: right, i ended up going back to emacs for now though.
20:19 yoklov: the other issue is that drracket is slow :(
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20:21 yoklov: at least, on my laptop it runs much slower than emacs whenever there's too much code on the screen at once.
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20:40 yoklov: hm, so racket's complaining about "reference to an identifier before its definition: foo26.4", when i haven't defined foo26.4, and while I have a few potentially unkosher uses of format-id, none of them involve the foo identifier, so does anybody have any ideas?
20:41 chandler: have you tried the macro stepper?
20:41 yoklov: yeah, it doesn't complain
20:41 yoklov: no matter how much macro hiding i turn off
20:42 chandler: so it makes it through the macro stepper but fails check syntax? wow.
20:42 chandler: I think I'd be adding a lot of `display's to my macros in that case :-)
20:43 yoklov: it passes check syntax, but fails before the debugger kicks in
20:44 yoklov: Well that's the weird thing, my macros are actually really simple, they just let me define a few replacements so that I can turn on and off safe/unsafe operations uniformly
20:45 asumu: Do you have a small snippet to debug?
20:46 yoklov: h/o, i'll see about making it smaller
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20:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/h-rAYQ
20:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove old menu item from DrRacket docs - Asumu Takikawa
20:49 (part) RacketCommitBot
20:52 yoklov: hm
20:52 yoklov: https://gist.github.com/3080254
20:53 yoklov: mysteriously, that still errors, even with all the syntax trickery missing
20:54 asumu: AAB
20:54 asumu: oops
20:54 asumu: yoklov: that works if you re-order definitions
20:55 yoklov: err
20:55 asumu: (move pvector up)
20:55 yoklov: okay
20:55 yoklov: any clue about the error thouhg?
20:56 yoklov: pvector2.3?
20:56 chandler: I'm not sure why it's got numbers on it, but the error is because pvector really isn't bound to anything when the definition of `empty-pvector' is evaluated.
20:56 yoklov: that makes sense
20:56 chandler: The error message itself should be reported as a bug.
20:57 yoklov: the error message is why i didn't try reordering, i figured I had accidentally broke something with format-id
20:58 chandler: When I click "run", DrRacket does color the bad use of pvector red for me.
20:58 asumu: The struct documentation could be clearer about this, but the renaming is necessary. It's due to this:
20:58 asumu: "In that case, the expansion of id as an expression produces an otherwise inaccessible identifier that is bound to the constructor procedure"
20:58 asumu: (in the case that the constructor id and the struct id are the same)
20:59 yoklov: chandler: it doesn't for me
20:59 chandler: Huh. Are you on 5.2.1?
20:59 yoklov: yup
21:00 yoklov: on mac, though.
21:00 chandler: Me too.
21:00 asumu: (but it's unfortunate that the "inaccessible identifier" leaks through in an error)
21:02 yoklov: now that i think about it, drracket hasn't been highlighting anything for me for a while.
21:07 asumu: Also, check syntax doesn't seem to be able to analyze binding issues like this statically.
21:07 asumu: For a similar thing, try (define foo bar) (define bar 5)
21:08 asumu: (not sure if this is impossible to just hasn't been done)
21:09 yoklov: hm
21:09 yoklov: i wouldn't think you could know that statically, but I don't know much about racket's internals
21:12 chandler: you can know that *that* case is going to error
21:13 chandler: I'm not sure what would be sensible for something like (define foo (if (something-from-another-module) bar #f)) (define bar 5) though.
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22:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/OaFBWg
22:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added types for single-value sequences - Neil Toronto
22:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added inline hint around `index?' definition; my own timing suggests 2x speedup - Neil Toronto
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22:52 zencephalon: Is it possible for typed racket to get caught in an infinite loop if I'm using recursive types stupidly?
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22:54 offby1: ought to be easy to figure that out for yourself
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