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00:46 chimeracoder: Is there a recommended json parsing library? Supposedly one is being released "summer of 2012"
00:50 adu: neil and dherman seem to have json parsing libraries on planet
00:51 chimeracoder: Yeah, I saw dherman's, but if one's being released soon, I wasn't sure if that's still the most recent (last updated Feb)
00:51 chimeracoder: thanks
00:52 eli: chimeracoder: Yes, there is a json library that will be included in the next release: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/json/
00:53 eli: It should be compatible with 5.2.1, so you can just get the directory if you want to start using it now.
00:53 eli: (Or you can use a nightly build.)
00:54 chimeracoder: oh great, thanks
01:00 adu: chimeracoder: I'm releasing my uber-compile-every-language-to-racket in about 50 years, can you wait until then?
01:06 chimeracoder: adu: just compile Javascript to Racket, then mooch off of all  'X in Y lines of Javascript' posts that flood HackerNews every day ;-)
01:07 adu: wtf does 'X in Y' mean?
01:07 chimeracoder: eg, 'Python in 40 lines of Javascript'
01:07 adu: oh haha
01:07 chimeracoder: At least a few months ago, there used to be at least one of those posts per day on the front page, haha
01:08 adu: or, use all the X->C impls and compile C->LLVM, then LLVM->JS, then JS->Racket
01:09 adu: we seriously need a function database
01:10 adu: for the sake of humanity
01:10 chimeracoder: adu++
01:11 chimeracoder: In all seriousness, though, I'm confused about how to use the Json library - I can write something like (jsexpr? "{asdf : 4}") which returns true, but how do I actually access the value?
01:12 eli: chimeracoder: `jsexpr?' tests for racket values that correspond to json values (which are called jsexprs).
01:13 eli: So (jsexpr? "blah {{{") also returns #t, since all strings are jsexprs.
01:13 chimeracoder: oh *facepalm*
01:14 chimeracoder: so is there a function that parses those, or do I have to write that myself?
01:14 adu: chimeracoder: all I want to do (it's either unbelievable or common sense, depending on who I ask) is generate binaries and documentation from the same source, I mean doxygen was designed for that purpose, right?
01:14 eli: If you want to convert a string to a jsexpr, then the unsurprising name for it is `string->jsexpr'.
01:14 eli: For example, (string->jsexpr "{asdf : 4}")
01:14 eli: Which is "of course" an error, since it's invalid json.
01:14 eli: What you really want is (string->jsexpr "{\"asdf\" : 4}")
01:15 eli: adu: That's not necessarily a good idea.  You can get easy but relatively bad documentation using it.
01:16 eli: (And BTW, IIRC, neilv's mcfly is a recent package that does that.)
01:16 chimeracoder: herm, so what would be the better approach?
01:16 eli: chimeracoder: To `string->jsexpr'?
01:16 eli: There's `read-jsexpr' that works directly on input.
01:17 eli: s/input/an input port/
01:17 eli: Sorry, `read-json'.
01:18 eli: The names are explained in the documentation, btw -- the idea is that these use "json" since they deal with real json, as coming form a file or on a network line.
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01:19 adu: eli: my favorite documentation is the navigable kind
01:19 chimeracoder: ah
01:19 chimeracoder: I think I was getting the json/jsexpr mixed up
01:19 eli: adu: Huh?  Rendering documentation as html can be done either way.
01:20 eli: chimeracoder: That's one of the things that we changed from Dave's library.
01:20 eli: chimeracoder: Also, note the different treatment of json nulls.
01:22 chimeracoder: yeah, thanks
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08:42 pooya72: Is there any way to get arabic/persian to show up correctly in Dr.Racket?
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09:02 soegaard: Don't know.
09:02 neilv: ask on the email list
09:02 soegaard: good advice
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09:51 eli: Bah...
09:52 eli: FWIW, there is no way to do RTL text in drracket ATM.
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10:00 soegaard: Does anyone know anything about https://github.com/Pylipala/racket-hack/blob/master/README ?
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10:05 soegaard: pooya72: You missed eli's remark. I quote: FWIW, there is no way to do RTL text in drracket ATM.
10:06 pooya72: soegaard: thanks. my internet got disconnected. That sucks. It such a great platform for teaching kids. But the kids I want to teach don't have English as their first language.
10:07 soegaard: How old are they?
10:07 pooya72: soegaard: the characters show up fine. they just aren't connected.
10:07 eli: pooya72: Yeah, what soegaard quoted; I've looked into it once, and it looked messy -- these days it might be easier since we're using a modern gui layer on linux, and windows/mac should be easy too, but it wasn't done.
10:07 pooya72: they're 16
10:07 pooya72: eli: thanks eli.
10:07 soegaard: okay
10:08 eli: And recently it came up in a similar context -- making it possible for young kids to use drracket...
10:08 pooya72: eli: I was teaching them ruby, since ruby doesn't have much syntax symbols like : $ etc...
10:09 pooya72: but Dr.Racket gives good feedback
10:09 pooya72: it shows where the mistake was
10:10 eli: pooya72: Well, once RTL is possible, then it should be very easy to have a language with bindings in different languages, which is even better.,
10:10 eli: The only tricky issue would be translating error messages.
10:10 pooya72: eli: well I wouldn't do that.
10:10 pooya72: I mean translate error messages
10:10 eli: Heh, yeah, like I said, it would be difficult...
10:11 pooya72: not just that, they expect it to be in english
10:11 eli: One crazy idea that I played with is hooking into the error display handler, and pass the text through google translate...
10:11 pooya72: lol. that would be a funny experience.
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10:12 eli: Well, if the bindings are in a different language, then english error messages wouldn't be too great...
10:12 eli: And using google is not too hard, btw.
10:12 eli: rudybot: t8 en ar Hellow world
10:12 rudybot: eli: Hellow العالم
10:12 eli: rudybot: t8 en ar Hello world
10:12 rudybot: eli: مرحبا العالم
10:13 eli: (rudybot is written in racket...)
10:13 pooya72: well, I think all they would wan't is to have strings show up correctly
10:13 pooya72: oh nice
10:13 jamessan: isn't the translate API being paywalled or does rudybot just screen scrape?
10:13 eli: (I don't know, the usual thing for them to do is to limit how much you can use it without paying.)
10:14 soegaard: FWIW Texas Instruments tried translating function names to local languages on the TI89. They went back to english function names with NSpire. In NSpire the names in the menu is translated, but when a menu item is chosen, the standard english function name is inserted into the editor.
10:15 eli: soegaard: We were (are, still) discussing teaching in middle school, where the language could be more of a problem...
10:16 eli: 7th grade to 9th, I think.
10:16 eli: (Translating from hebrew.)
10:16 chandler: Are there any other examples of programming languages that are localized?
10:16 eli: rudybot: t8 en he 8th grade
10:16 rudybot: eli: 8 כיתה
10:16 pooya72: on a positive note, arabic/farsi works when creating a gui.
10:16 eli: Bah.
10:17 soegaard: It is difficult - if function names are translated, then they can't use materials from internet.
10:17 eli: pooya72: If you mean buttons and menus etc, then that's not too surprising...
10:17 soegaard: On the OTH, they will grasp the meaning of some things faster.
10:17 chandler: It seems like you'd need a module system on the order of Racket's to be able to do it right.
10:18 eli: soegaard: At that stage looking stuff up on the web isn't important...
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10:18 eli: It's roughly things at the bootstrap level, if you know about that.
10:18 soegaard: A little. I have looked at WeScheme.
10:19 pooya72: So I looked into ruby shoes, and really Dr.Racket's gui is a lot more complete.
10:19 pooya72: though shoes is a little simpler
10:21 soegaard: jamessan: True (I believe this is a change). 20$ for 1M text is okay for translating error messages, that can be cached.
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10:23 pooya72: Ok, so how is it that everything in Dr.Racket works so well?
10:23 pooya72: seriously
10:24 pooya72: The gui is beautiful on the mac, it's easy to mac, and it's easy to make it into an app.
10:24 pooya72: it's easy to make
10:25 pooya72: come guys, it's like I'm not even programming. where's the hours of frustration?
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10:27 soegaard: ;-)
10:28 chandler: pooya72: I think you should write to the list and ask these questions. :-)
10:29 soegaard: eli: Thanks for reminding me of Bootstrap. I think, I'll steal some for my class next next year.
10:30 soegaard: that is, steal some ideas
10:34 pooya72: Is there any way to to compile a standalone app from an Intel Mac to a PPC Mac?
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11:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/P0BvXA
11:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] typo - Matthew Flatt
11:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] `raco decompile' fix - Matthew Flatt
11:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] *SL: fix `check-expect' syntax checking - Matthew Flatt
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11:33 roelof: Can someone explain me why this : (check-expect (links-of-draaien-cham (make-Vcham 20 100 "left")) (make-Vcham 17 99.9 "left")) get this error message : Vcham-Xcham: expects a Vcham; given (make-signature ...)
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11:49 roelof: nobody who can help me figure out why I get this message :  Vcat-Xcat: expects a Vcat; given (make-signature ...) on this script : http://pastebin.com/V2r5RfBa
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12:01 asumu: roelof: what kind of thing does the Vcham-Xcham function expect as input?
12:02 roelof: I would say a Vcham
12:04 asumu: roelof: and what are you giving it in the body of your function?
12:04 asumu: (in `links-of-draaien-cham`)
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12:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/MtE3zg
12:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] scribble Latex: add \SNumberOfAuthors{} in output - Matthew Flatt
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12:06 roelof: I use there a s  for short for the structure Vcham
12:06 asumu: Not here: "( < (Vcham-Xcham Vcham) ondergrens-cham)"
12:07 asumu: That's what the error was trying to tell you. `Vcham` is a structure definition. Not the Vcham you got as input to the functino.
12:07 asumu: *function
12:07 asumu: (unfortunately, using the structure name is not an error in BSL)
12:07 asumu: (I think because it's needed to write signatures)
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12:12 roelof: asuma : thanks I now can debug the rest
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12:25 roelof: asuma :"may I ask you one more question : how can I solve this one :  rectangle: expects a non negative real number as first argument, given -1
12:26 roelof: according to my knowlegde if happiness is zero the script stops
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13:09 roelof: anyone else who can help me ?
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13:17 offby1: I don't understand your question
13:22 roelof: I have this script : http://pastebin.com/amfsCUSi and now I see this error message appear : rectangle: expects a non negative real number as first argument, given -1
13:22 offby1: yikes that's a big script.
13:22 offby1: what language is it in?
13:23 offby1: have you tried running it inside DrRacket?  That's got a sort of debugger built in
13:23 offby1: it might point out where the problem is
13:24 roelof: it's in racket and im running it into DrRacket. There is where I get the error-message
13:25 roelof: and the debugger I cannot use because Im still in the beginner student language
13:26 soegaard: roelof: It is easier for everybody if you reveal the line number. Then people do not not have to copy the program, open DrRacket, run it etc.
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13:28 roelof: soegaard : I know but  DrRacket does not say which line number the problem is
13:28 soegaard: Did you click the error icon ?
13:31 roelof: I don't see a error icon just the text
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13:32 jsnikeris: Is there a better way to generate responses from templates than what is posted here: http://docs.racket-lang.org/web-server/templates.html#(part._.H.T.T.P_.Responses)
13:36 soegaard: roelof: What happens a screen just before you get the message?
13:38 roelof: then I see what I expected a cat running around the screen. The message appears when the script stops because happiness is zero
13:40 soegaard: So you are the red bar is a rectangle that gets smaller and smaller. You keep counting down and down. Do you check the value before you count down?
13:43 roelof: nope, I only check if the value is zero
13:43 soegaard: Only count down if the value is positive.
13:44 soegaard: Alternative: Use (max 0 happiness) as the width of the rectangle.
13:45 roelof: oke, I will try your first solution and see if it's helping
13:46 roelof: everyone thanks for the help and have a good evening
13:50 jsnikeris: I'm having a hard time deciding when to use "#lang web-server" vs. "#lang racket"
13:50 jsnikeris: Would you use #lang web-server in modules that represent various views?
13:51 jsnikeris: These view modules require some of the modules that are automatically required by #lang web-server
13:52 jsnikeris: Alternatively, I could just use #lang racket and require only the needed modules
13:52 jsnikeris: Thoughts?
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14:16 soegaard: jsnikeris: The perfect question for jeapostrophe
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15:34 pooya72: How do i provide a predicate for find-files? http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Filesystem.html#(def._((lib._racket/file..rkt)._find-files))
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15:39 jamessan: provide a function that matches the signature (path? . -> . any/c) as the first argument to find-files.  if you just want to find everything, (find-files (lambda (path) #t)) will do that
15:45 pooya72: jamessan: sorry I'm really new. don't know the syntax yet. How would i search for files ending in .txt?
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16:32 offby1: (define (is-text-file? filename) (regexp-match "\\.txt$" filename)) or something like that.
16:32 offby1: rudybot: (define (is-text-file? filename (regexp-match "\\.txt" filename)))
16:32 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
16:32 rudybot: *offby1: error: #<undefined>:1:32: define: not an identifier, identifier with default, or keyword for procedure argument at: (regexp-match "\\.txt" filename) in: (define (is-text-file? filename (regexp-match "\\.txt" filename)))
16:32 offby1 rubs chin
16:33 offby1: rudybot: init racket
16:33 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
16:33 offby1: rudybot: (define (is-text-file? filename (regexp-match "\\.txt" filename)))
16:33 rudybot: *offby1: error: #<undefined>:1:32: define: not an identifier, identifier with default, or keyword for procedure argument at: (regexp-match "\\.txt" filename) in: (define (is-text-file? filename (regexp-match "\\.txt" filename)))
16:33 offby1: rudybot: (define (is-text-file? filename)  (regexp-match "\\.txt" filename))
16:33 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
16:33 offby1: *ahem*
16:33 offby1: rudybot: (is-text-file? "foo.bar")
16:33 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: #f
16:33 offby1: rudybot: (is-text-file? "foo.bar.txt")
16:33 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: (".txt")
16:33 offby1: \o/
16:33 offby1: ~
16:33 offby1: / \
16:33 offby1: poo, he's gone
16:33 offby1: all that effort!  Wasted!
16:33 offby1 sobs
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16:37 soegaard: So do Italy.
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16:47 pooya72: Got it! http://pastebin.com/CPu089Lt
16:47 pooya72: Aww yeaahh...
16:47 pooya72: do a little racket!
16:47 pooya72: make a little lambda!
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17:10 adu: hi offby1
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