00:01 vu3rdd: .. reading more about Number type and the domain/range of sqrt, Type checker says is correct. Sorry for the noise.
00:04 asumu: vu3rdd: the example still doesn't type-check right? I think the example should have the Complex type instead maybe.
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00:30 chemuduguntar: hello
00:31 chemuduguntar: what is the best data structure to use to represent two dimensional values?
00:31 chemuduguntar: (x, y)
00:31 Shambles_: Probably a struct.
00:31 Shambles_: a.k.a. record
00:32 chemuduguntar: ok
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00:55 vu3rdd: asumu: since the sqr has the domain/range (Number -> Number), I guess Complex or Number as return type works fine
00:55 vu3rdd: asumu: I guess the example should mention that somewhere?
00:56 vu3rdd: chemuduguntar: struct perhaps or just cons cell?
01:01 chemuduguntar: vu3rdd: how about complex numbers?
01:07 vu3rdd: chemuduguntar: complex numbers are a native type in Scheme/Racket.
01:07 vu3rdd: > (* 1+4i 2+8i)
01:07 vu3rdd: -30+16i
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01:45 neilv: online check-syntax is even cooler if you switch all the preferences to "with gold highlighting"
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08:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/7OU1uQ
08:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix docs for render-term - Robby Findler
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09:03 Shambles_: I found a really strange error in the documentation.  http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/Literal_Sets_and_Conventions.html  Below (define-conventions xyz-as-ids    [x id] [y id] [z id]) it shows a error that not only doesn't occur, but makes no sense.
09:03 Shambles_: There's another weird one right below (define-conventions xn-prefixes    [#rx"^x" id]    [#rx"^n" nat])
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09:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/i3-KGg
09:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix minor typo - Rodolfo Henrique Carvalho
09:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix docs for unsafe-flmin and unsafe-flmax. - Vincent St-Amour
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09:47 Shambles_: There are other nonsense errors on: http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/Experimental.html  Search for "exists"
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12:34 netrino: Hi guys! Reading about reader macros right now. According to reference, i can define macro with make-readtable, but only with one character. But how implemented #hash or #rx? Currently my macro uses unicode lambda symbol, but i want to add an alias which would consist only of ascii characters ('lambda' or 'fn' for example). Can someone point me to the right direction?
12:37 asumu: netrino: You don't need a reader macro to implement an alias of 'lambda'.
12:37 asumu: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (fn e ...) (lambda e ...))
12:37 rudybot: asumu: Done.
12:38 asumu: rudybot: ((fn (x) (+ x 1)) 4)
12:38 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: 5
12:38 rudybot: asumu: ; stdout: "- : Integer [generalized from Positive-Index]\n"
12:42 netrino: asumu: sorry for confusing, i'm not very good with formulating my thought in english. I mean, that i have a reader-macro, and I want an alias for it. Currently I can write like this #λ(printf "\n~a\n" %). I want to be able to write #fn(printf "\n~a\n" %)
12:44 netrino: Can I somehome bind '#fn' to the '#λ' macro?
12:45 asumu: netrino: why not just register two reader macros?
12:46 asumu: One triggered on the lambda character and the other on 'f'
12:50 netrino: well, i thought about '#f', but looking on #rx i thought that it's possible to add multicharacter reader macros, which would be nice
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12:51 netrino: ah, and #f is already defined as false
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12:53 asumu: Things like #hash are built-in to the reader at the C level.
12:54 Cryovat: Ah, that reminds me of something I wanted to ask
12:54 asumu: (but essentially just check the first character and then parses the rest)
12:54 Cryovat: Do you know how the lifetime of strings s?
12:54 Cryovat: *is
12:55 Cryovat: As in, how they are allocated
12:55 Cryovat: Do they live in stack frames, or are they stored somewhere more permanent?
12:57 asumu: I imagine they're heap allocated and garbage collected.
12:58 Cryovat: How about cons cells?
12:59 netrino: asumu: so you propose define a reader-macro for 'f' symbol and then parse the input, searching for 'n' symbol? but won't that break existing macros, which starting with 'f'?
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13:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/e1obOg
13:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fixed error messages for create-world - Matthias Felleisen
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13:01 asumu: netrino: Not sure, maybe you can just call the old readtable entry if it's not a match.
13:03 asumu: (looks like you could just call read/recursive if it's not a match)
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13:13 netrino: asumu: I see, thanks for help
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14:53 Shambles_: Did anybody see my mention of the documentation errors earlier?
14:54 mithos28: You should submit it as a bug
14:55 mithos28: For some reason define-conventions is hitting the filesystem when trying to evaluate in the examples
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14:59 offby1: Is there a contract that checks that a value is a sequence, and that all the contained values pass a particular contract?  It'd be analogous to "listof".  My hunch is "no", because checking the contained values might modify the sequence ... but maybe there's a special case for sequences that don't get modified ...
14:59 offby1: "sequenceof" I guess
15:00 Shambles_: mithos28: Bug reports for documentation problems seems sort of strange.
15:00 Shambles_: mithos28: Yesterday somebody fixed the problems I found.  I figured they'd be willing to do it today.
15:00 mithos28: there is a menu in the bug ui to select documentation error
15:01 mithos28: If it is added to the bug database it is less likely to be forgotten in case someone doesn't get to it today
15:01 Cryovat: You could always fork, fix it and make a pull request on Github ;)
15:02 mithos28: Cryovat: The fix is not actually changing the documentation it is changing the implementation, so that the evaluator when generating the documentation doesn't error out
15:02 asumu: offby1: sequence/c does it for a fixed size sequence.
15:03 Cryovat: Oh, I see
15:03 asumu: sequenceof is problematic because it forces the entire sequence, which might be infinite.
15:03 mithos28: asumu: why? It wouldn't have to be flat.
15:04 asumu: Yeah, that's true.
15:06 asumu: offby1: actually, I think I misread the docs.
15:06 asumu: Looks like sequence/c actually does that.
15:06 mithos28: The tricky part would be maintaing equalness
15:07 asumu: rudybot: (require unstable/contract)
15:07 rudybot: asumu: Done.
15:07 mithos28: sequence/c doesn't do the tricky prat though
15:07 asumu: rudybot: (define/contract s (sequence/c number?) (in-list '(1 2 "bad")))
15:07 rudybot: asumu: error: Type Checker: Internal Typed Racket Error : #(struct:exn:fail:contract car: expects argument of type <pair>; given: #f #<continuation-mark-set>) in: here
15:07 asumu: rudybot: init racket
15:07 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
15:07 asumu: rudybot: (require unstable/contract)
15:07 rudybot: asumu: Done.
15:07 asumu: rudybot: (define/contract s (sequence/c number?) (in-list '(1 2  "bad")))
15:07 rudybot: asumu: error: car: expects argument of type <pair>; given: #f
15:08 asumu: Err.
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15:10 asumu: This example works in my REPL. Not sure what happened with rudybot.
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15:10 mithos28: rudybot: (in-list '(1 2 bad))
15:10 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
15:10 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: #<stream>
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15:11 mithos28: rudybot: (define/contract s any/c (in-list '(1 2 bad)))
15:11 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
15:11 mithos28: s
15:11 mithos28: rudybot: s
15:11 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: #<stream>
15:11 mithos28: rudybot: (version)
15:11 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: "5.2.900.1"
15:12 mithos28: asumu: I bet that is the difference
15:14 asumu: rudybot: (sequence-ref 5 1344434)
15:14 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: 4
15:15 asumu: Hmm, I hadn't realized that range sequences are infinite.
15:15 asumu: Oh, not it's just how sequence-ref works on any sequence.
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15:16 Shambles_: I honestly know nothing about git.  I think the only version management program I became marginally competent with was CVS.  I've always been mystified by why people can't just agree on one to use.  I have vague memories of the CVS / SubVersion wars on Sourceforge, and everybody switching to Git as the flavor of the week just discourages me from bothering learning now.
15:17 Shambles_: I'll try to submit a documentation bug report sometime today.
15:18 Cryovat: Git (and my preference hg) do have one big advantage
15:18 Cryovat: You have your own repo
15:19 Cryovat: So if you want to do in-between commits without forcing them on your team, you don't have to mess around with branches
15:19 jamessan: yeah, DVCS in general are very handy
15:20 jamessan: there are just quirks between the different flavors that some people prefer
15:20 Cryovat: We use Subversion at work
15:21 Cryovat: It works fine most of the time
15:21 Cryovat: But there's always those small cases where you want to do have rollback ability once or twice when working on a feature
15:22 Cryovat: I ended up using Git and the builtin Subversion bridge functionality
15:22 Cryovat: It gets pretty icky when there's a merge conflict
15:22 Cryovat: But the convenience outweighs that
15:23 Shambles_: I've only needed to download copies of the repository to try to fix problems myself, at which point I end up mailing off a unified diff to be ignored.
15:23 Cryovat: :(
15:24 Shambles_: I can see the benefit of being able to retrieve previous versions, look at the difference between versions, and detect conflicts, but all the systems seem to do that.  Some pretend to have some way to deal with conflicts.  Let me know if any of them ever do it automatically, correctly.  I'm not holding my breath.  I don't see how it /could/ work.
15:25 Cryovat: I'm not a fan of automatic merges at all
15:25 Cryovat: I don't trust them
15:26 Shambles_: Since they do seem to be equivalent, it just seems like people arguing over which way is best to cross the street.  Do you want to slink?  Do you want to strut?  Me, I don't care.  I just want to get across the @#$% thing.  The version control system mostly gets in my way. :P
15:26 Shambles_: It gives people an excuse to not put up tarballs or zips for their releases.
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15:27 Shambles_: Hey, you can just install this big hairy utility, and learn it, to download it!  Oh, and we change the format weekly, so you'll have 3 or more of these things to do the same thing! \o/
15:27 Shambles_: I have git on here somewhere, but I have only used it a few times, and with some GUI to try to get past having to devote more time to it.  I forget what I used it for.
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15:38 Mungojelly: Git is standard now.  I've been learning it and it's pretty easy.
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15:51 Shambles_: Standard, but for how long.
15:53 Shambles_: Also, so long as I can download source code, I don't really have much of a use for it.  For stuff I personally work on I like keeping a backup (or a lot of backups), and using diff regularly, which basically achieves the same thing if you're working by yourself.  A group probably needs some sort of version control system, but I don't see much of a need for them to keep changing unless there are really compelling features.
15:53 Shambles_: On another note, I'm really irritated that I remember something from the syntax-parse documentation that sounds like it would be useful for that "how do I write a starts-with-#fn reader macro" problem, but I can't find it.
15:54 Shambles_: It seems like it had something to do with attributes.
15:54 Shambles_: I think they used hash tables in the example of it.
15:55 Shambles_: It's so late the person with the problem has probably moved on, but it'll be bothering me for hours.
15:56 Cryovat: Well, he's still around
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16:13 netrino_: Shambles_: If you are talking to me, I've already solved my problem using asumu's advice
16:19 Shambles_: netrino_: I was remembering some way to match symbols when reading, but I can't seem to find it now.
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16:30 netrino_: Shambles_: don't bother on it, since everything works on simply reading input port and call default 'read' on match failure. but still thanks for an attempt to help
16:31 Shambles_: netrino_: It's alright.  Most programming channels are pretty hostile to new people.  So far folks have been pretty nice here.  Besides, trying to help out helps me check my understanding of things too.
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16:41 netrino_: Shambles_: agree with you, people here are very kind and responsive (including you).
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17:21 mithos28: Is a github pull request the best way to do a code review for the start of a patch?
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18:58 neilv: rudybot: eval '(OLD MACDONALD HAD A FARM ... #E1E10)
18:58 rudybot: neilv: ; Value: (OLD MACDONALD HAD A FARM ... 10000000000)
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18:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fj-8tQ
18:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `print-syntax-width' for +inf.0 - Matthew Flatt
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18:58 neilv: rudybot: why can't you play nice like a normal child?
18:58 rudybot: neilv: ponders what kind  things to post to IRC to make it not safe for work. Child porn haiku?
18:59 neilv: ok, i'm calling social services
19:00 otterdam: (require haiku/childporn)?
19:00 neilv: so. i posted a bug report against racket. literally 6 minutes after the notification email, matthew had already fixed it, done a git commit, and closed the bug in the tracking system
19:02 mithos28: well he is never on irc, so he can get real work done
19:02 otterdam: "Ah, someone finally found that bug. Better cherry-pick the fix for it and push it so we look superhumanly productive."
19:03 mithos28: also note that closing the bug in the tracking system is automatic on git push (with the right commit message)
19:03 neilv: fancy
19:05 otterdam: github has a bunch of different shortcuts, it pays to read up on its docmuentation
19:06 mithos28: otterdam: this is the old system, as bugs have not been moved to github
19:06 otterdam: ah, nice
19:07 jamessan: there is a plan to do that, though.  I forget what the ETA is
19:08 mithos28: I think eli was working on it, if my memory serves
19:09 jamessan: samth announced the migration back in March...
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19:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kHu-2g
19:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix printing of single-precision floats. - Vincent St-Amour
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19:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/Xd8VZw
19:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added to HISTORY.txt - Neil Toronto
19:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixed erroneously imprecise type for +nan.f literal (now Single-Flonum-Nan) - Neil Toronto
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21:53 neilv: mcfly is getting closer. it now automagically fixes your info.rkt for you, constantly. http://paste.lisp.org/display/129937
21:59 neilv: and here it is making a planet archive (first thing, it checks info.rkt, and sees it doesn't need to make any changes).  http://paste.lisp.org/display/129938
22:00 neilv: once this is finished, i can get rid of most of the informational messages unless a verbose flag is set
22:04 mithos28: The best part about TR bugs is that they allow you to segfault racket
22:08 mithos28: You just have to convince it that a constant value is a pointer, and it is nice enough to elide the safety checks
22:09 neilv: sounds promising. c is a popular language
22:09 mithos28: rudybot: (require typed/racket)
22:09 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
22:09 mithos28: (: f (Pair 'a 'b))
22:10 mithos28: rudybot: (: f (Pair 'a 'b))
22:10 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
22:10 mithos28: rudybot: (define f (letrec ((x x)) x))
22:10 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
22:10 mithos28: rudybot: (displayln f)
22:10 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "#<undefined>\n"
22:10 mithos28: rudybot: (:print-type f)
22:10 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "(Pairof 'a 'b)\n"
22:11 mithos28: (car f) would crash it, but I want to be nice to rudybot
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23:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/eC0rdA
23:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Improve handling of NaN in division. - Vincent St-Amour
23:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Be more conservative about returning Float-Complex and others. - Vincent St-Amour
23:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix typechecking of Single-Flonum-Complex literals. - Vincent St-Amour
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