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01:46 Freezerburn: Can anybody help me with an ffi-lib error I'm having?
01:46 jonrafkind: ya
01:47 Freezerburn: Much obliged jonraf. I'm getting this error from a REPL open in a command prompt (Windows 8\ x64): > (ffi-lib "libchipmunk") ffi-lib: couldn't open "libchipmunk.dll" (Unknown error; errno=193)
01:47 jonrafkind: where is libchipmunk.dll
01:48 Freezerburn: C:\Program Files (x86)\Racket\lib, which is where find-dll-dir reports as looking for stuff (at least I think that's what the docs said)
01:49 Freezerburn: I did have to compile it myself, but the chipmunk demo program seemed to run fine, so I'm pretty sure it's an ok build
01:50 jonrafkind: can you open any other dlls?
01:50 Freezerburn: > (require ffi/unsafe) > (ffi-lib "freetype6") #<ffi-lib>
01:51 Freezerburn: Seems to work for one that was already there
01:51 jonrafkind: and freetype6 is in the same directory as chipmunk?
01:52 jonrafkind: what version of racket btw
01:52 Freezerburn: Yes. It was already there when I put the chipmunk one in. Pretty sure it was installed by Racket
01:52 Freezerburn: Whatever the most recent one is. I only installed it a couple days ago
01:52 jonrafkind: there was some recent work to the 64 windows version, although honestly i dont know if it affects the ffi
01:53 jonrafkind: what if you put libchipmunk.dll in the same directory that your repl is running in
01:53 Freezerburn: I'm pretty sure I have the 32 bit version, considering it defaulted to installing in the x86 program Files directory
01:53 jonrafkind: oh ok
01:53 Freezerburn: It's already in the same directory
01:53 jonrafkind: oh i see, i thought you were running from a different directory
01:54 Freezerburn: Is there a way to double check that it is? I opened the REPL from a directory with the dll in it, but does that set it to the current one? I'm assumign so
01:54 jonrafkind: well if you're sure the dll is ok then i dont know what the issue could be
01:55 Freezerburn: Let me try and double-check
01:55 jonrafkind: yea the current directory will be the same
01:55 jonrafkind: i dont know of any native windows tools to check dlls, but you can download something, like the dll walker
01:55 jonrafkind: or some disassembler I guess, like ollydbg
01:57 Freezerburn: Hmm
01:58 jonrafkind: where can i download libchimpunk.dll
01:58 jonrafkind: ill test it on my windows box
01:59 Freezerburn: I'm not sure. The only thing I could find was the source and I had to manually build it in Visual Studio. I might be able to provide a link to the one I built though if you want
02:00 jonrafkind: oh yea, can you upload that dll somewhere and ill try it
02:00 jonrafkind: does it need whacky VS stuff, like msvc90.dll?
02:00 jonrafkind: btw that could be the issue in loading the chipmunk dll, if its dependancies aren't also loaded I think you will get some error
02:01 Freezerburn: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1p319jftpbfhumf/libchipmunk-dbg.dll is for the debug build
02:01 Freezerburn: https://www.dropbox.com/s/18xibffqrljzmmm/libchipmunk-rel.dll and the release
02:01 Freezerburn: I don't remember which one I copied by default, so I'm going to try and use both real quick and see what hwappens
02:03 Freezerburn: Yeah, both of them give the same error
02:03 Freezerburn: Also interestingly enough, it wouldn't load them when they were in the lib folder. Only when I put them into the local one
02:04 jonrafkind: huh
02:04 jonrafkind: it would load them from the local one?
02:05 Freezerburn: Yeah. They're both in the lib folder and it was telling me they couldn't be found, but when I put them in the local fodler they just gave that other error
02:07 jonrafkind: wait i thought you were running from the lib folder int he first place
02:07 jonrafkind: so whats the 'local folder' ?
02:07 Freezerburn: /cygdrive/c/Users/me.000/Dropbox/Code/workspace-racket/learning (using Racket from cygwin)
02:07 jonrafkind: rofl cygwin..
02:07 jonrafkind: worst piece of software ever
02:08 Freezerburn: If you know a better one, I would definitely enjoy recommendatoin
02:08 Freezerburn: I have to use the command line all the time at work, and not having it at home with Windows sucks
02:08 jonrafkind: well msys seemed to work last time i tried it
02:08 jonrafkind: ive had serious issues with cygwin in the past
02:08 Freezerburn: (might get a VM running at some point though,a ctually)
02:08 jonrafkind: yea, thats definitely the best answer
02:09 Freezerburn: Though I'd honestly like to have a build that i know works on Windows, which is trickier than on Linux generally, annoyingly. At least for LISP variants
02:10 gf3: Freezerburn: Well there's that whole CLR Clojure project
02:11 Freezerburn: huh, interesting
02:11 Freezerburn: Though seemingly not so cross-platform, unless mono can hold it up
02:12 gf3: Well if you care about that, you can just use regular Clojure
02:12 Freezerburn: Though if I were going to go that route, I'd probably jsut g- yeah, Clojure
02:13 Freezerburn: I need to look into that someday
02:13 Freezerburn: I even know Java pretty well, considering I've written a good amount of code in it
02:20 Freezerburn: jonrafkind: Any luck with the dlls I gave you?
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03:04 Freezerburn: Is it possible to load a static library with Racket's ffi?
03:04 Freezerburn: Because I don't think chipmunk compiles correctly into a dll
03:04 Freezerburn: Either that or I'm jsut failing at compiling it into a dll
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03:21 Freezerburn: ...yeah ok I'm just terrible at visual studio. Got Chipmunk working correctly after a clean build and messing around a little. Loaded in Racket and everything
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10:35 Blkt: good day everyone
10:35 Cryovat: Greetings
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10:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/6T-8qA
10:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] `=` can equate values with different types. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
10:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Whitespace fixes. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
10:52 (part) RacketCommitBot
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13:30 yoklov: So, I think i understood the blog on submodules mostly, up until where they're described as similar to java annotations, and then i stop understanding and wonder if I had actually understood the first part
13:32 yoklov: i mean, i see they can be used to solve similar problems
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13:33 Freezerburn: Does anybody have any experience working with the Chipmunk physics library? In particular building it from source on Windows? I'm trying to get it working through the FFI, but it's refusing to find any of the functions defined by it, and I am very confused as to why and I cannot find anything that helps online
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13:45 Freezerburn: Anyone therE?
13:55 (quit) yoklov: Quit: computer sleeping
13:58 samth: if anyone has a windows machine with PPT and DrRacket, testing this bug would be appreicated: <Freezerburn> Does anybody have any experience working with the Chipmunk physics library? In particular building it from source on Windows? I'm trying to get it working through the FFI, but it's refusing to find any of the functions defined by it, and I am very confused as to why and I cannot find anything that helps online
13:58 samth: damn
13:58 samth: wrong paste
13:58 samth: if anyone has a windows machine with PPT and DrRacket, testing this bug would be appreciated http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view&pr=5342
13:59 Cryovat: PPT being Powerpoint?
14:01 samth: Cryovat: yes
14:02 samth: or really any non-drracket windows app
14:02 Cryovat: I can verify that it's pasted into Powerpoint as a .
14:02 Cryovat: Notepad refuses to paste at all
14:02 Cryovat: Err
14:02 Cryovat: I mean Paint
14:02 samth: ok, thanks
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14:08 soegaard: samth: Is this commit related? https://github.com/plt/racket/commit/58db5f8b46bc8e9603a1557c1804a8a87e70b1c4
14:08 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/83ucy5j
14:08 samth: soegaard: yes
14:08 samth: basically, i'd like to know if that commit fixed PR 5342
14:08 soegaard: ok
14:09 samth: Cryovat: what version of DrRacket do you have?
14:09 Cryovat: This was in 5.3.0.8
14:10 Cryovat: If it's any help, here's what .NET says is on the clipboard:
14:10 Cryovat: https://gist.github.com/24c8d7b4af8a37527ff9
14:12 Cryovat: I have 5.3.0Tseted in 5.3.0.10, same happens
14:12 Cryovat: Erk, don't know what happened there, but yeah
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14:18 soegaard: Freezerburn: If you feel adventurous, try this: https://github.com/soegaard/this-and-that/blob/master/tmp/racket-chipmunk.rkt
14:18 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7bpmlg8
14:19 soegaard: I didn't get that far though, but rudimentary stuff works.
14:22 soegaard: If you wonder where Snoopy is from, my plan was to get my students to write a level each, of the old C64 classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDwP6bJwhRY
14:23 Cryovat: Hehe
14:23 Cryovat: Looking at that, it's incredible how far games have gotten
14:24 soegaard: Yeah - great fun back then.
14:24 Cryovat: The C64 was a bit before my time
14:24 Cryovat: I grew up with an Amiga
14:25 Cryovat: My big regret is that I never learned Basic back then
14:26 Cryovat: We got a copy of AMOS Basic for free, but my primary school self only used it to play the bundled sample games
14:26 soegaard: I learned C on the Amiga.
14:26 soegaard: My brother had AMOS, it was much better than the builtin basic.
14:27 Freezerburn: soegaard: Racket is giving me this serror when trying to run it: "C:\Users\me.000\Downloads\soegaard-this-and-that-eeb6fcf\soegaard-this-and-that-eeb6fcf\tmp\2d-tree.rkt" (The system cannot find the file specified.; errno=2)
14:27 soegaard: Oh, O forgot to commit that. Two seconds.
14:28 Cryovat: I had a brief trifle with Python, but my first real programming was with Java in uni
14:28 soegaard: https://github.com/soegaard/this-and-that/blob/master/tmp/2d-tree.ss
14:28 Cryovat: I wish I had started earlier :(
14:29 soegaard: I began with Basic on a ZX81 !
14:30 Cryovat: Haha, cool :)
14:30 Freezerburn: soegaard: Much obliged. Though now it's complaining about 1d-tree.rkt
14:30 soegaard: https://github.com/soegaard/this-and-that/blob/master/tmp/1d-tree.rkt
14:33 Freezerburn: That worked. Thanks :D
14:33 soegaard: I had forgotten there were dependencies.
14:34 Freezerburn: Heh
14:34 Freezerburn: The demo you have in the racket-chipmunk file feels a bit sluggish. Is that due to debug output or something?
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14:35 soegaard: Disable the printing and it gets a little better.
14:36 Cryovat starts stalking soegaard on Github
14:39 soegaard: Remove this line   (state #t)   to disable the printing.
14:40 Freezerburn: Yeah that's definitely better
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14:41 soegaard: Didn't Jay have a working chipmonk ffi binding?
14:42 Freezerburn: You mean the 3 year old one?
14:42 soegaard: 2 years, but yeah: https://github.com/jeapostrophe/chipmunk
14:42 soegaard: I believe I got it working on OS X at some point.
14:43 Freezerburn: I think it technically should work, actually. It seems like it's attempting to do the same thing I'm doing. However for some reason neither my nor his bindings actually find the functinos, for some reason
14:43 Freezerburn: Which is why I was attempting to make my own, or at least provide a small test case for getting things to work
14:43 soegaard: Okay
14:43 Freezerburn: Also cpInit is deprecated, so that needs to be removed
14:44 Cryovat: You said you compiled it with Visual Studio?
14:44 Freezerburn: yes
14:44 Cryovat: Have you tried mingw or clang?
14:45 Freezerburn: Not yet. I originally attempted to make it with gcc and the cmake files, but somethign went wrong during it. I think I needed to add the glut library only, actually... might try and do that real quick
14:45 Cryovat: Ah, yeah
14:45 Cryovat: I've never had much success with make on Windows
14:47 Freezerburn: heh
14:52 Freezerburn: If I were attempting to compile chipmunk with the command " gcc -O3 -ffast-math -std=gnu99 -fPIC -Iinclude/chipmunk -c src/cp*.c", what would be a similar command in clang/llvm?
14:53 soegaard: Why not download the dll from, say, here: http://code.google.com/p/pymunk/source/browse/trunk/pymunk/chipmunk.dll?r=334
14:53 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/73elygg
14:54 Freezerburn: ...you know, that would have been helpful throughout this process
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14:59 soegaard: You may or may not deduce the flags from http://code.google.com/p/pymunk/source/browse/trunk/setup.py?r=334
15:04 Cryovat: 7Unrelatedly
15:04 Cryovat: Is there a guideline somewhere for how to structure a Racket project repository?
15:07 jonrafkind: not really, you can just put the source in src/ and then have a top level (either racket or bash) file that runs it
15:08 soegaard: Not really. The only convention is that private/ contains modules, that users of the project shouldn't rely on.
15:08 Cryovat: I peeked at one of jeapostrophe's projects on Github and noticed he kept the source in an /exp/ folder
15:09 soegaard: I think you looked at his exp project :-)
15:09 soegaard: He has really short project names.
15:10 Cryovat: https://github.com/get-bonus/get-bonus
15:10 Cryovat: This one
15:10 Freezerburn: Okaaay... I grabbed the dll from the pymunk project, plopped it into the directly where I'm runnign the program that tries to use FFI, and it says that it can't find the procedures
15:10 Freezerburn: directory*
15:11 soegaard: Cryovat: I think "exp" is his shorhand for "experiment". https://github.com/jeapostrophe/exp
15:12 Cryovat: Ah, ok
15:12 soegaard: Freezerburn: "it" is that Racket or the dll ?
15:13 Freezerburn: Umm, when I use get-ffi-obj, Racket throws an error that says it cannot find the procedure in chipmunk.dll
15:13 Freezerburn: (define cpv   (get-ffi-obj "cpv" chipmunk (_fun _cpFloat _cpFloat -> _cpVect)))
15:13 Freezerburn: ffi-obj: couldn't get "cpv" from "chipmunk.dll" (The specified procedure could not be found.; errno=127)
15:14 Freezerburn: chipmunk.dll is in the same directory as the .rkt file that is being run
15:15 soegaard: Hmm. I don't have any real suggestions, except that (just to be sure that the right dll is loaded) try renaming it to mychipmunk.dll
15:15 Freezerburn: Same error
15:17 Freezerburn: This is really irritating
15:18 yoklov: how difficult is making racket bindings for a c++ library/
15:19 samth: yoklov: difficult
15:19 yoklov: :(
15:19 yoklov: c is easy, though, iirc
15:19 yoklov: is that correct?
15:19 samth: the same is true for just about every non c++ language
15:19 samth: yoklov: yes
15:20 bremner: err, you mean every non c language is hard?
15:20 Kaylin c's what you did there.
15:21 Cryovat: By the way
15:21 Cryovat: It would be awesome if the racket-lang.org frontpage had a search box that took you to the documentation
15:21 soegaard: Freezerburn: I think cpv is "special"
15:22 Cryovat: Just sayin' ;)
15:22 soegaard: It is defined in: http://code.google.com/p/chipmunk-physics/source/browse/trunk/include/chipmunk/chipmunk_ffi.h
15:22 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7pxqmvv
15:22 Cryovat: Maybe I should just start going directly to docs. instead of www. instead
15:22 bremner: Cryovat: that's what I do
15:22 Freezerburn: There are a lot of things defined int here to help make an FFI implemenation easier. What should I do about that though?
15:22 Freezerburn: Is the name different?
15:23 soegaard: Maybe _cpv works?
15:23 Freezerburn: And cpv is literally just a nice way to allocate vectors. All it does it return a cpVector with the two floats passed in, so it isn't particularly special
15:24 Freezerburn: ...sonofa
15:24 Freezerburn: Yeah, _cpv works
15:24 Freezerburn: *rages at the several hours wasted tryign to get this thing to work*
15:25 soegaard: The first steps on a new FFI are always the most difficult.
15:26 Freezerburn: Unfortunately
15:26 Freezerburn: Now I can actually make progress though
15:26 Freezerburn: Thanks a ton for the help
15:34 asumu: bremner: I suspect he meant binding to C++ is hard for every non-C++ language.
15:34 asumu: (which is too bad because Qt bindings would be great for a lot of things)
15:35 soegaard: Maybe Swig can be used for the C++ library?
15:36 bremner: yeah, I guess you typically need some C++ glue to use a C++ library even from C
15:43 Freezerburn: Hmm
15:44 Freezerburn: Ok so I'm able to load the function _cpv from Chipmunk now. however, I'm trying to define a function: (define cpvzero (cpv 0.0 0.0)) to emulate the cpvzero function of the library
15:44 Freezerburn: And when trying to run the program, it gives a segmentation fault now
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15:46 soegaard: I think you mean (define (cpvzero) ...) , but that is probably unrelated to the segfault.
15:47 Freezerburn: Ah, right, true
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15:49 Freezerburn: Also, if I'm requiring the chipmunk-ffi.rkt file, why is it saying that cpv is undefined when in my main rkt file?
15:50 soegaard: Did you export it? Notice Jay's file end with (provide (all-defined-out))
15:52 yoklov: asumu: yeah, that's what i meant
15:53 Freezerburn: Ooh, got it. Yeah it's not giving me that anymore, just a segfault
16:02 Freezerburn: I'll work on this a bit later, have some other things to do at the moment. I've at least made some decent progress with your help
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16:17 neilv: make-planet-archive, as called by mcfly, quietly does nothing with a perfectly good doc.scrbl file, except for creating directory planet-docs/doc with nothing in it
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16:21 neilv: Building PLaneT package "neil/soundex:2:=0" from directory "/home/user/racket/soundex/"...
16:21 neilv: Building: doc.scrbl
16:21 neilv: MzTarring ./...
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16:35 soegaard: neilv: Is it time to move soegaard/sicp into neilv/sicp ?
16:37 neilv: soegaard: it should be done, but i have been hoping someone would take over the project and redo much of my pieces of it
16:37 soegaard: :-)
16:38 soegaard: I got a bug report from someone who got confused about the error messages that come, when installing the sicp package.
16:38 soegaard: http://planet.racket-lang.org/trac/ticket/433
16:39 soegaard: The sicp package works fine, but there are error messages, that one should ignore.
16:39 neilv: getting that smoother is a job for a research assistant or research programmer in a department. i have a ton of unpaid racket stuff on my plate already
16:41 neilv: i just looked quickly at that bug report. i don't know the cause immediately
16:41 soegaard: Maybe someone on the mailing list is interested?
16:41 neilv: i asked recently on the email list (and asked once before a long time ago)
16:42 soegaard: Hmm.
16:45 soegaard: jeapostrophe: Do you remember which version of Chipmunk you used for the bindings at https://github.com/jeapostrophe/chipmunk ?
17:03 neilv: woot. it started working
17:04 neilv: seemed to be related to planet development links not being where make-planet-archive thought they should be, so it quietly failed
17:04 neilv: and someone would go upload their archive to planet and not know that there was no documentation in it
17:06 neilv: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129813
17:06 neilv: mcfly must have hundreds of hours into it now, and it hardly does anything
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17:08 soegaard: :-)
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18:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/b-Fhnw
18:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] In the multi-file search window, only re-load the file - Robby Findler
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18:09 ryan_: hi
18:10 samth_: hi
18:10 ryan_: i was looking at racket for the first time and had a question about static typing and objects
18:10 ryan_: basically, can you create a new type with a class
18:10 ryan_: or only with structs?
18:11 offby1: are you talking about "typed racket"?
18:11 offby1: (in any case, my answer is sure to be "I don't know"; I'm just curious)
18:11 ryan_: yea
18:11 ryan_: basically
18:12 ryan_: im looking for a static typed language with the best of java and scheme
18:12 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
18:12 offby1: typed racket is probably it.
18:13 offby1: However, as predicted: I don't know if you can use classes in typed racket.
18:13 offby1: In any case, racket programs rarely use classes; they much more often use "structs", which you _can_ use in typed racket (I suspect I just answered one of your questions).
18:13 offby1: try it out.  I myself am only just barely beginning to experiment with typed racket.
18:14 ryan_: ok
18:14 asumu: We're working on support for classes in TR.
18:14 ryan_: im dling it now
18:14 ryan_: tr?
18:14 asumu: Typed Racket, sorry.
18:14 offby1: to me, the best of java is: tons and tons of useful libraries.  No scheme that I know of has anything close to that.
18:14 ryan_: i meant the what the raw language provides
18:14 ryan_: not really the libraries
18:14 asumu: If you're coming from a Java background though, you might want to try using structs and functions and see if that works.
18:15 ryan_: im coming from both java and scheme lol
18:15 ryan_: ok ill try it out
18:15 asumu: Oh, I see.
18:17 ryan_: yea but thanks all for the help
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18:29 Cryovat: asumu: Speaking of TR
18:29 Cryovat: Is there an inverse of with-type?
18:30 Cryovat: My program is mostly TR, but it has a part where it needs to create a window
18:30 Cryovat: I ended up doing it in a separate file and using require/typed
18:31 Cryovat: But would be nice if I could avoid that
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18:42 em: 3
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20:54 Cryovat: Is there any way I can find out what part of a program is creating garbage?
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21:10 samth_: Cryovat, the separate file bit is what you need to do
21:10 samth_: submodules might be another solution, but they don't work in TR yet
21:11 samth_: Cryovat, no, sadly there's no allocation profiler
21:18 Cryovat: Ok, thanks
21:18 samth_: Cryovat, you can take a look at my gc-stats package on github
21:19 samth_: which might help some
21:21 Cryovat: Thanks
21:21 Cryovat: It's getting pretty late, but sounds like a good plan for tomorrow
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