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02:32 jesyspa: What value should I use when I'd like to represent the absence of a struct?  null?
02:32 mithos28: false
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02:33 mithos28: you then get the niceities like (or maybe-struct default-value)
02:33 jesyspa: Alright, thanks.
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02:34 jesyspa: Ah, nice.  Didn't realise null evaluates to true.
02:35 jesyspa: Oh yes, this isn't common lisp, everything except #f evaluates to true.
02:35 mithos28: everything but #f does which is much nicer than having 0 '() "" all be false aswell
02:36 jesyspa: Hmm, is (or/c env? false?) a reasonable left-hand side of a contract, or should I make it (or/c env? (and/c boolean? false?))?
02:37 mithos28: the only false value is false, so those are equivalent
02:37 jesyspa: Ah, okay.  Was worried about false?'s contract complaining.
02:37 jesyspa: Oh, hang on, read it backwards.
02:38 jesyspa: Never mind, thanks.
02:38 mithos28: I'd actually use (option/c env?)
02:38 mithos28: where option/c is from unstable/contract
02:38 jesyspa: Didn't know about option, will take a look.
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09:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/yAGBRw
09:05 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust datalog so that syntax objects are not used as source location - Robby Findler
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11:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/W04UrQ
11:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Revert "Test results from DrDr" - Robby Findler
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12:33 yoklov: so, I'm trying to make an editor for befunge in racket (just for fun). I've been reading the docs for text%, but the automatic paragraph positioning, etc. make it seem unsuitable for this.  Should I give up and just write it from scratch using canvas%?
12:36 yoklov: for the unfamiliar, befunge is a language where the 2d positioning of the code determines the program flow, so line wrapping would be extremely annoying
12:36 samth: yoklov: drracket uses text% and doesn't line-wrap
12:36 samth: so that can certainly be done
12:38 yoklov: hm, it does wrap for me when it goes off the edge, but maybe that's just a setting
12:45 yoklov: i mean, what i'd like to do is have it so wherever the user clicks the cursor goes (e.g. not end of line/nearest pos. of text)
12:47 samth: yoklov: the wrapping in drracket is just in the display, and i think that's a pref
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12:52 yoklov: hrm. yeah, everything i want to do seems possible
12:54 samth: stamourv: ping
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13:02 yoklov: is the order of evaluation in let guaranteed? e.g. if i do (let ([a (pop! stk)] [b (pop! stk)]) …) will those happen in the right order, or should i use let*
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13:12 samth: yoklov: the order of evaluation is guaranteed
13:13 samth: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/reference/let.html?q=let#%28form._%28%28lib._racket/private/letstx-scheme..rkt%29._let%29%29
13:13 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7fxbtlr
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13:31 mithos28: samth: what are the reasons that TR cannot do inference at polymorphic function-application? Are they problems with the type system that make it impossible, or is it an artifact of the current engine?
13:32 samth: mithos28: a combination of both
13:32 samth: full ml-style type inference is impossible
13:32 samth: but we could be doing better than we are
13:32 samth: scala has the best current system in this space
13:32 samth: and it's something i want to pursue at some point
13:32 mithos28: is there any work being done on it, or is it in the future?
13:35 samth: no one that i know of is working on it
13:35 samth is currently working on keyword arguments
13:36 mithos28: would it be something that I could make some headway on? or is it more of a massive overhaul required?
13:36 samth: mithos28: i'm unsure
13:37 samth: but probably significant surgery would be required
13:40 mithos28: I found http://lampwww.epfl.ch/~odersky/papers/mfcs06.pdf on scala's type system, was this what you were refering to or are there more recent works?
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13:46 samth: mithos28: the most relevant paper is 'colored local type inference' by odersky
13:48 mithos28: Ok, I'll do some reading and see if I think I can tackle it.
13:54 samth: mithos28: the big change will be altering what 'expected type' means throughout the type checker
13:54 samth: ok, off to lunch
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14:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5yfkfg
14:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust the check for multiple-file debugging so that it happens - Robby Findler
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14:47 tuor: Can I ask a WeScheme question here?
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14:50 tuor: I'm working on programs using big-bang, and usually when I make a change to the program and rerun it, the pop-up window comes up too small and nothing happens. Sometimes click Save fixes it, other times I close the program and reopen it to fix it. Am I doing something wrong?
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17:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/UorLdQ
17:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust `racket/generic' documentation style - Matthew Flatt
17:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] clarifications and additions to style guide - Matthew Flatt
17:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Solaris 5.10 has poll(), so set try_poll_syscall="yes" in configure - Tim Brown
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17:37 Cryovat: Is there any function to list all of the identifiers exported from a given module?
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17:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/S2F5bA
17:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] use sandbox evaluator to test honu code - Jon Rafkind
17:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] analyze macro parameters at phase 2. temporarily break patterns - Jon Rafkind
17:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] pass the original name being defined to get the proper lexical context - Jon Rafkind
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17:37 jonrafkind: there is in fact
17:37 jonrafkind: i wrote  a script to do it
17:38 jonrafkind: just a sec
17:38 Cryovat: Is it published anywhere?
17:38 jonrafkind: ill throw it on github
17:39 Cryovat: Awesome, thanks :)
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17:40 Sgeo: How can I fprintf or similar such that 1 in the argument becomes 001?
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17:41 jonrafkind: ugh, the script is currently broken because unstable/generics just moved, but anyway ill put it on github and fix it later
17:41 Cryovat: Ah
17:41 jonrafkind: anyway the function you want is module->exports
17:42 jonrafkind: gabot should respond to '? module->exports' queries and link to the relevant documentation
17:42 jonrafkind: theres a bot in other channels im in that does a similar thing
17:43 Cryovat: Thanks
17:45 jonrafkind: https://gist.github.com/2860053
17:46 bremner: jonrafkind: you mean rudybot? doesn't he have  doc command
17:46 jonrafkind: rudybot: doc module->exports
17:46 rudybot: jonrafkind: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Module_Names_and_Loading.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._module-~3eexports))
17:46 jonrafkind: ah cool
17:46 jonrafkind: well it would be easier if it responded to '?' as well
17:47 Cryovat: Wow
17:47 Cryovat: That's a pretty long script
17:47 jonrafkind: yea the first giant macro is about making struct-field names available
17:47 jonrafkind: so if you have an instance of struct X named foo, with fields a, b, c then it makes foo.a, foo.b, foo.c
17:48 jonrafkind: that script does a bunch of stuff like searching for identifiers using levenshtien distance to find the closest match
17:50 jonrafkind: bah i have to do major surgery to get this script working again
17:50 Cryovat: Ah, the generics change is that significant?
17:51 jonrafkind: yea
17:52 jonrafkind: i guess the spirit of generics was retained but the api changed quite a bit
17:52 jonrafkind: i mean i was using unstable/generics so this is how things go..
17:52 jonrafkind: i never actually use this script :p
17:52 Cryovat: Ah
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17:53 Cryovat: It was more a "can I do this?" kind of enterprise?
17:53 jonrafkind: i mean i used to use it
17:53 jonrafkind: 2 years ago
17:53 Cryovat: Ah
17:53 Cryovat: I'm pretty new to Racket, and I jumped onto TR almost immediately
17:54 Cryovat: So haven't fiddled with generics yet
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18:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/GsUOVA
18:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Support definitions of keyword functions in Typed Racket. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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18:25 Cryovat: I've been wondering
18:25 Cryovat: How old is Typed Racket?
18:25 jonrafkind: like 4 years or so
18:26 Cryovat: Was just wondering, since it seems like there's a lot of commits related to it lately
18:29 samth: Cryovat: some of us have had some free time recently
18:29 samth: and i started work on what became typed racket in late 2005
18:30 samth: so almost 7 years
18:30 samth: first release in fall 2006
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18:33 Cryovat: Ah, I see
18:34 Cryovat: I'm a fan of the syntax it uses
18:34 Cryovat: And the type checking has been a big help
18:39 samth: Cryovat: glad you like it
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18:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ViG-Dg
18:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Improve type of `identity`. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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19:19 asumu: jonrafkind: it shouldn't be that much effort to port.
19:19 asumu: The major thing that changed is #:struct prop:foo (define-methods ...) => #:methods gen:foo [(define m ...) ...]
19:20 asumu: And define-generics takes fewer arguments.
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19:25 jonrafkind: yes i ran into exactly that issue and had no idea what the fix was
19:25 jonrafkind: uh do you know exactly the set of things that need to be updated?
19:26 jonrafkind: possibly just that one.. let me implement it
19:27 jonrafkind: define-methods is unbound
19:27 jonrafkind: oh just define
19:31 asumu: IIRC, those are the things that need to be updated: arguments for define-generics, #:struct => #:methods
19:32 asumu: Note that define-generics will automatically add the gen: prefix for you.
19:33 jonrafkind: wtf, i have (define-generics symbol (print)) and later (define/generics my-print print) but it says print is not a method of symbol
19:34 jonrafkind: well of gen:symbol
19:34 asumu: Does (define-generics symbol (print symbol)) work?
19:35 jonrafkind: well im not getting an error about it..
19:35 jonrafkind: works on the repl
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23:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/WbFajw
23:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] remove extra space in some error messages - Matthew Flatt
23:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust *SL error-message rewriting - Matthew Flatt
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