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00:21 asumu: (I know why now but still surprising at first)
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00:29 Fare: why?
00:31 jonrafkind: it also returns #f for numbers :p
00:31 jonrafkind: sort of a badly named function I guess
00:32 jonrafkind: i guess the point is it only returns #t for things taht could possibly be mutable
00:32 asumu: What jonrafkind said.
00:32 asumu: Though I think it used to return #t on pairs at some point.
00:33 jonrafkind: well yea because they were mutable at one point I guess
00:33 asumu: Yeah, and maybe you could specifically make immutable ones.
00:36 Fare: you should probably file a bug still
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00:37 jonrafkind: nice perspective
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00:59 Shambles_: So how do you test for immutability properly now?
01:01 jonrafkind: well you can use immutable? for the data types it supports
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02:18 sizz: Let's say I want to quote the word they're .. how do I prevent the quote in front of the r from quoting?
02:18 jonrafkind: |they're|
02:18 jonrafkind: rudybot: '|they're|
02:18 rudybot: jonrafkind: i hate those tiling WMs, they're all written by asshats
02:18 jonrafkind: rudybot: (eval '|they're|)
02:18 rudybot: jonrafkind: how secure is (eval (read)) ?
02:18 jonrafkind: cmon rudybot..
02:19 jonrafkind: well anyway trust me it works sizz
02:20 sizz: thanks
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06:54 bremner: rudybot: init racket
06:54 rudybot: bremner: your sandbox is ready
06:55 bremner: rudybot: eval '|they're|
06:55 rudybot: bremner: ; Value: |they're|
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11:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/trGHOA
11:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust and add "docs" to img-eval.rkt for Matthias's consumption - Robby Findler
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13:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/ICQTNQ
13:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Attempt to clarify docs for PR12793 - Jay McCarthy
13:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixing commit message display re newlines re Robby - Jay McCarthy
13:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixing PR12779 - Jay McCarthy
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13:56 (part) Croms: "Linkinus - http://linkinus.com"
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16:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/TVNYfA
16:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Supporting methods in web-server/dispatch - Jay McCarthy
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16:23 yoklov: "The only advantage of a fxvector over a vector is that a shared version can be created with functions like shared-fxvector."  Really? that's _actually_ the only advantage
16:25 yoklov: it's not faster if you're holding fixnums anyway?
16:25 yoklov: what's the point of having unshared fxvectors then?
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16:31 yoklov: flvectors say that they're more efficient (at least in the unsafe case, which exists for them), so why the lack of symmetry
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17:31 samth: yoklov: because fixnums are already represented without indirection
17:32 yoklov: huh, in vectors also?
17:33 yoklov: that's good to know then.
17:33 Cryovat: This makes me wonder
17:34 Cryovat: In memory, what's the difference between a flvector and an f32vector?
17:34 samth: f32vectors are designed for interoperation with c
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17:34 samth: yoklov: there's a very common technique where (small) integers are tagged to distinguish them from pointers
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17:35 yoklov: yeah, I figured thats why fixnums are 30 bits
17:35 Cryovat: So the flvector isn't a plain float[]?
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18:10 samth: Cryovat: an flvector is a packed vector of floats (really doubles)
18:11 samth: there's some extra indirection in the f32vectors, i think
18:11 samth: to facilitate C interop
18:12 Cryovat: Ah, I see
18:12 Cryovat: So every native Racket flonum is a double?
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18:19 samth: Cryovat: i really recommend reading the documentation for the details on this
18:20 samth: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/numbers.html
18:20 _gcr: Jay's serial-lambda is amazing. I just made a distributed computing framework from it: http://planet.racket-lang.org/package-source/gcr/riot.plt/1/0/planet-docs/riot/index.html
18:20 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/758kj4n
18:20 _gcr: Work is dispatched to remote clients from a workunit queue server. Like distributed places, but more lightweight.
18:21 Cryovat: Thanks, will do
18:21 samth: _gcr: you should integrate with distributed places
18:22 samth: _gcr: also, the links in http://planet.racket-lang.org/package-source/gcr/riot.plt/1/0/planet-docs/riot/index.html are kinda broken
18:22 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/758kj4n
18:22 _gcr: samth: I haven't found a way of making links in planet packages that work. Most of the package docs on planet.racket-lang.org are similarly broken
18:23 _gcr: samth: see http://lists.racket-lang.org/users/archive//2012-January/050221.html
18:24 samth: are you using the forms from planet/scribble
18:24 samth: ?
18:25 _gcr: samth: I think so. http://planet.racket-lang.org/package-source/gcr/riot.plt/1/0/riot.scrbl
18:25 _gcr: samth: hm, would requiring scribble/manual be the problem?
18:25 samth: i dunno
18:26 _gcr: Distributed places is nice, but slightly different than this approach which relies on a central workunit queue. The "nodes" (as distributed places calls them) can come and go as they please; you can add and remove them in the middle of a computation
18:26 _gcr: I'll have to look more into it
18:27 samth: it would be really slick to have an integration between places and serializable closures
18:28 samth: plus you could allocate some mutable data on the shared head
18:28 samth: *heap
18:28 _gcr: Agreed! That would be awesome
18:28 _gcr: although, if a shared heap is used, would the places be on the same machine? then you wouldn't need serializable closures
18:29 samth: _gcr: no, you still need serializable closures even in the single machine case
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18:29 samth: gotta go, but it's really cool
18:29 _gcr: Thanks. Take care
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20:18 necroforest: In Racket, (hash-ref) throws an error if you try to reference a non-existing key in a hash table.  How can you check for existence?
20:18 _gcr: necroforest: hash-has-key?
20:18 jonrafkind: or you can give the 3rd optinoal argument, (lambda () #f)
20:18 necroforest: Thanks
20:18 _gcr: necroforest: iirc, hash-ref also accepts a default argument
20:18 _gcr: yeah
20:19 necroforest: Neither of those are in the docs... am i looking at the wrong docs or are they not very thorough?
20:19 _gcr: necroforest: Here's hash-has-key? http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/hashtables.html?q=hash-has-key%3F#(def._((lib._racket/private/more-scheme..rkt)._hash-has-key~3f))
20:19 _gcr: necroforest: It's in the reference. You can search all docs with the search bar at the top of every page; it shows up there too
20:20 necroforest: oh, got it. I was looking at this: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/hash-tables.html
20:21 jonrafkind: another guide vs reference issue
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20:36 friscosam: to me the difference between guide and reference make sense (although more covered topics in guide would be nice)
20:37 friscosam: but I've been reading computer technical manuals for 25+ years
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20:40 _gcr: Whoo, built racket from scratch in 11 mins on an 8-core box :)
20:51 necroforest: friscosam: the guide is fine, but there should be links to more in depth reference material.  I just googled 'racket hash tables', didn't know there were two forms of documentation
20:53 jonrafkind: fwiw every link on the guide page points at the reference
20:53 jonrafkind: did you not realize all the function names were links?
20:57 _gcr: jonrafkind: just another data point, but it took me months to realize that too. :P Making them underlined, maybe even only on hover, might have helped
20:58 jonrafkind: well underlining might be a bad idea.. but possibly something else
20:58 friscosam: hmm I thought the links were underlined
20:59 ozzloy: http://www.meetup.com/hac-dc/events/64947482/ anyone in here in the dc area?
20:59 jonrafkind: well some are
20:59 ozzloy: we're reading through sicp
20:59 friscosam: there are also links in the sidebars
20:59 jonrafkind: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/hash-tables.html but like here the function names in the code are links but they aren't underlined
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21:41 _gcr: So I've been looking into the recent serial-lambda free variable ordering bug http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view%20audit-trail&database=default&pr=12798
21:41 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/cefbodt
21:41 _gcr: And on my machine, 06091079b1d3301fa9ec39d88b306596b71996a0 reliably fixes the issue even though it has nothing to do with it
21:41 _gcr: That's the "Add abstract methods to the class system" commit
21:41 _gcr: I think it's an unreliable thing though, right? It should have nothing to do with the problem
21:42 _gcr: and yet, git checkout 060910; build; test fails, git checkout HEAD^; build; test succeeds
21:43 _gcr: er, test succeeds, then git checkout HEAD^, test fails (got em backwards)
21:43 _gcr: Is it worth even sending email to the bug report about it? It's gotta be unrelated
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21:56 sizz: re: earlier .. section 2.2 of the Guide specifically states that pre-defined names in the guide are hyperlinked to the reference manual
21:56 sizz: fyi
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22:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AhYkjQ
22:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] syntax/free-vars: deterministic result order - Matthew Flatt
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22:20 _gcr: Well I guess that fixes that, then. :P
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22:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/ndGPaQ
22:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] syntax/free-vars: fix quadratic behavior - Matthew Flatt
22:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] raco exe: checks on source and destination paths - Matthew Flatt
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