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00:38 shawnps: is there a way to display a JPEG that i might get by doing a get-pure-port on a URL and getting a raw JPEG image stream back in DrRacket?
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00:44 asumu: shawnps: yes, use a bitmap% object. You can initialize with an input port.
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00:46 shawnps: asumu: awesome, thanks
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00:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AADgGA
00:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix bug in method concretization for interface ctcs - Asumu Takikawa
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01:17 shawnps: asumu: wow, that is really cool
01:17 shawnps: worked perfectly :D
01:17 shawnps: maybe i'm just easily impressed though
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03:06 shawnps: can you only have one #auto-value in a struct?
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10:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/YyGkug
10:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Commit b3002cfab01dcbd36faa39d15499304b0074e904 broke - Robby Findler
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11:20 stamourv: shawnps: Yes, unfortunately.
11:21 stamourv: I don't see a good reason why, though. I'd like to fix that at
11:21 stamourv: some point.
11:37 Cryovat: Wanna give structs in Typed Racket some love too? ;)
11:37 stamourv: I'd love to. What do you miss the most?
11:38 Cryovat: They seem #:auto-value would be nice
11:38 Cryovat: -They seem
11:39 stamourv: I'd rather fix it in Racket, then support the result in TR.
11:40 stamourv: Would feel weird to add support for something I want to throw away. ;)
11:40 Cryovat: Hehe
11:41 Cryovat: Is there a philosophical reason why #:mutable can't be applied to a few fields only?
11:42 stamourv: I'm pretty sure it can.
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11:42 stamourv: Cryovat: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/define-struct.html?q=struct#%28form._%28%28lib._racket/private/base..rkt%29._struct%29%29
11:43 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7njmsc7
11:43 stamourv: Look in `field-option'.
11:44 Cryovat: Ah, sorry
11:44 Cryovat: I was mixing up Racket and TR
11:47 stamourv: TR doesn't support it?
11:49 Cryovat: Only on the struct level it seems
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11:49 Cryovat: http://docs.racket-lang.org/ts-reference/special-forms.html?q=struct%3A#(form._((lib._typed-racket/base-env/prims..rkt)._struct~3a))
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11:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/_6gqCA
11:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added a ``dissection'' of a contract error message to the Guide - Robby Findler
11:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] update the mac os x bitmaps for the redex bitmap test suite - Robby Findler
11:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added thermometer - Robby Findler
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11:50 stamourv: Cryovat: That's either a doc bug (if it actually works), or a real bug (if it doesn't).
11:51 stamourv: Could you figure out which it is and submit a bug report? That would be great!
11:52 Cryovat: I can try :)
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11:53 Cryovat: So far I'm enjoying Typed Racket a lot
11:58 Shambles_: stamourv: What is it you wanted thrown away?
11:59 samth: stamourv, Cryovat: no need for a bug report on that
11:59 samth: it's definitely already reported
11:59 samth: also, #:auto-value is a terrible mis-feature and shouldn't be used/supported/extended
12:00 Shambles_: Guess that was what Cryovat was referring to.
12:00 stamourv: Shambles_: #:auto-value
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12:01 Shambles_: Hoped it wasn't dynamically typed/statically typed Racket. :P  I can see the need for both.
12:01 stamourv: samth: Fields with default values is a good idea IMO.
12:01 stamourv: But having only one such default value is terrible.
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12:01 stamourv: Shambles_: No risk of that, I like TR a lot too. :)
12:01 samth: stamourv: yes, that's true enough, but what's needed is a general constructor mechanism
12:02 samth: along the lines of jay's superstruct
12:02 Shambles_: I've been working through the guide.  I thought there were already constructors?
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12:02 stamourv: samth: Haven't had a look at superstruct yet, but I will.
12:02 samth: Shambles_: yes, there are
12:02 samth: stamourv: it might be hard to find
12:03 stamourv: It's not on PLaneT/github?
12:03 Shambles_: Is there something wrong with them?
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12:03 samth: Shambles_: structs automatically come with simple constructors that initialize all the fields
12:03 samth: stamourv: i don't think it's on planet
12:03 samth: it's probably somewhere in github, but hard to find
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12:10 Shambles_: samth: What's wrong with the constructors?  Is there something I should watch out for?
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12:10 samth: Shambles_: no, there's nothing wrong with them
12:10 samth: it would be nice to have more features
12:10 samth: but there's nothing you need to worry about
12:11 Cryovat: I've been wondering a bit about struct internals
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12:12 Cryovat: If I define a struct like (struct: pos ([x : Integer] [y : Integer]))
12:12 Cryovat: How close is that/the accessors to a C-struct?
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12:13 stamourv: Cryovat: Pretty close. It's basically a Racket vector under the hood.
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12:14 stamourv: Typed Racket will even optimize accesses to be simple dereferences.
12:14 stamourv: Struct creation is a bit more expensive than vector creation, though.
12:16 Cryovat: I'm using TR for a nascent toy game project and using structs for game objects
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12:17 Cryovat: First real attempt at using Scheme for something, so I'm always worried about things like this
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12:36 yoklov: is there any way to make drracket's 'enable automatic parentheses' work… better?
12:36 yoklov: e.g. with closing parentheses
12:42 samth: yoklov: i don't understand
12:44 yoklov: Currently, if I have auto parens on, and do (, I get (), but then when I do ), I get ())
12:45 yoklov: as opposed to it ignoring the existing closing parentheses as it does in many text editors/ides/emacs+paredit
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12:48 yoklov: I'm sort of surprised that drracket doesn't have paredit equivalency, to be honest. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard… But this seems very basic, maybe I have some misconfigured settings?
12:49 samth: yoklov: no, it doesn't do that
12:50 stamourv: yoklov: I hear divascheme (on PLaneT, IIRC) has something paredit-like.
12:54 yoklov: that… sort of sucks to be honest.  It wouldn't be that difficult for me to bind )]}, etc. to something that looks at the next character and just moves the cursor forward if it's one of those, would it?
12:54 stamourv: yoklov: There's only one way to find out. ;)
12:59 samth: yoklov: i think that the people who develop drracket and the people who really like paredit are pretty disjoint
13:00 yoklov: really? that's surprising
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13:03 yoklov: paredit aside, i'm more surprised you can't overwrite the closing parens automatically. from what i've seen that's pretty standard in text editors
13:04 anonus: oh, since you're talking about paredit )
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13:04 anonus: is there someone who is using it with viper-mode ?
13:05 stamourv: anonus: IIRC, asumu uses it with evil-mode.
13:05 anonus: seems that viper-mode broke backspace and it not erasing paired paren, maybe someone have fix
13:05 anonus: evil-mode?
13:06 anonus: oh, awesome
13:06 anonus: i should try it now
13:06 samth: yoklov: i've never seen a text editor do that other than paredit
13:10 anonus: stamourv: :*
13:10 stamourv: anonus: Haven't tried it, but I hear asumu likes it.
13:10 anonus: all working out of the box
13:11 anonus: thanks
13:11 stamourv: No problem!
13:11 yoklov: samth: Really? Textmate, Sublime Text, Eclipse all do it, and those are just ones I have on my computer right now. It's pretty common
13:14 yoklov: and those are all for languages which require much less help with paren management than racket
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13:41 yoklov: Actually, it works now
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13:42 yoklov: scratch that, it did for a second, but doesn't anymore. Maybe overwrite mode was on… hm...
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14:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/SGLXvg
14:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Bump timeout for test-engine-test.rkt to 8 minutes. - Mike Sperber
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14:25 asumu: I think it'd be nice if the paredit component of DivaScheme was a library.
14:25 asumu: And possibly integrated into the framework library.
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14:26 asumu: Then structured editing could be used with a) DrRacket b) DivaScheme c) any other editing tool (like the various vim plugins for DrRacket)
14:27 Petit_Dejeuner: Hey, I'm doing the exercises in hotdp, and the draw.ss library isn't working. It tells me that "clear-solid-disc: this function is not defined" even though all the other functions are.
14:27 asumu: Petit_Dejeuner: you misspelled "disk"
14:27 asumu: (either spelling is correct in general but that's what is in the draw library)
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14:28 asumu: Also, htdp/draw is deprecated now. 2htdp/image is better.
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14:36 Petit_Dejeuner: Nevermind I had disc instead of disk, stupid user error
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15:44 asumu: jonrafkind: what's the status of drracket/private/module-interface?
15:44 asumu: (we were poking around with generics and it raised some errors so we were curious)
15:45 jonrafkind: i guess i dropped it
15:45 jonrafkind: you can remove it if you want
15:45 asumu: Okay, well it doesn't matter to us either way (the error is a bug in our end) but if you're not working on it, we can remove it.
15:46 asumu: Or you can. Or whatever.
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16:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/nwNPqg
16:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove drracket/private/module-interface. - Asumu Takikawa
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16:26 yoklov: is there a runtime overhead for case-lambda?
16:27 asumu: yoklov: yes, there is. It's not part of the core language.
16:27 yoklov: cool, thanks
16:27 asumu: Actually, hmm.
16:27 asumu: Nevermind.
16:27 asumu: That might've been wrong.
16:27 asumu: Since it's a core syntactic form.
16:28 asumu: Also, it's part of the bytecode. So, maybe not?
16:28 yoklov: hm
16:28 asumu: yoklov: I'd ask on the mailing list if you're curious.
16:28 stamourv: asumu, yoklov: Even if it's implemented in the runtime, there's probably an overhead from dispatching on arity.
16:28 asumu: Yeah, probably.
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16:30 yoklov: i would think you could determine a lot of calls statically, but it would require that actually happening
16:30 yoklov: and things already give an error for the wrong numbers of arguments
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16:56 sizz: Typo report: http://racket-lang.org/learning.html  "also worthwhile for experience programmers.." you left out the 'd'.
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16:59 sizz: There also doesn't appear to be a link back to the home page once you've clicked on the 'documentation' tab
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17:01 Cryovat: I think that's because the documentation is the same Scribble generated html as you get on your local machine
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18:06 jonrafkind: its wierd that you can put any datum the expression part of the bindings in a with-syntax and it will auto-convert to syntax
18:06 jonrafkind: (with-syntax ([x (lambda (z) z)]) #'x) is basically the same as (with-syntax ([x #'(lambda (z) z)]) #'x)
18:08 jonrafkind: which means if you use a macro in that position then it can either return #'#'blah or just #'blah
18:08 jonrafkind: (with-syntax ([x (some-macro)]) #'x)
18:08 jonrafkind: (define-syntax (some-macro stx) #'#'1) or (define-syntax (some-macro stx) #'1)
18:09 jonrafkind: i suppose if you use the #'#' thing then you can control the lexical context of the final syntax object
18:09 jonrafkind: otherwise with-syntax will imbue it with the lexical context of where that expression appears
18:11 yoklov: can someone explain why this happens? https://gist.github.com/2727844
18:12 jonrafkind: you thought a should be 1?
18:12 yoklov: yup
18:12 jonrafkind: what if you move the (super-new) to the end of the class definitions
18:13 yoklov: it's the same
18:15 jonrafkind: hm i dont see an explanation of the order of initialization in the docs
18:15 jonrafkind: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/objcreation.html?q=make-object
18:16 yoklov: hm, it seems to work if I do (init a) (super-make-object a) (init-field b)
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18:17 yoklov: which looks dumb but i'll live.
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18:17 yoklov: and the initialization docs seem to be here, though I'm not really sure I follow them. http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/createclass.html#(part._clinitvars)
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18:18 yoklov: ah, but then I can't inherit the field, or use it in methods.
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18:22 yoklov: It works with (init a*) (super-make-object a*) (inherit-field a) (init-field b), but that's hacky.  Am I alone in wanting to do this?
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18:23 yoklov: or does nobody use racket/class
18:23 asumu: Pretty sure the initialization order has something to do with mixins.
18:24 asumu: Since if you have some mixins, you want the order you super-make-object be the order you applied mixins to the superclass.
18:25 asumu: Or maybe not, sorry I'd think about this more but I'm in the middle of something---I'll get back to this.
18:25 asumu: yoklov: also, I'm not sure precisely what you want here.
18:25 asumu: Why not just use `new` and `super-new`?
18:27 yoklov: oh, well (super-new [a a]) looks weird to me
18:27 yoklov: and I typically avoid doing by named parameters so I can change their names if I want, and also because most things in racket aren't by-name
18:27 yoklov: will it work differently if I do that though?
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18:28 (part) stis
18:29 yoklov: Basically I want the first arguments to go to the superclass
18:30 bartbes: yoklov: from the docs: "When a derived class’s superclass initialization provides even more by-position arguments, they are prefixed onto the by-position arguments accumulated so far."
18:30 yoklov: or even to be able to control it without the (init a*) (super-something a*)
18:30 bartbes: written here: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/createclass.html
18:31 yoklov: I'm not so sure what that means though
18:32 yoklov: And I thought it just applied to init-rest clauses
18:32 yoklov: or, classes with init-rest clauses, rather
18:32 yoklov: What are the by-position arguments accumulated so far in that sentence?
18:32 bartbes: possibly, but one would expect it is homogeneous
18:33 bartbes: I would imagine those are the ones used by the derived class
18:33 bartbes: so in your case, it would be 'b'
18:34 bartbes: I'm not sure if you can suppress the default handling of init values, if so you could probably manually set the right variables with init-rest
18:36 yoklov: hm
18:36 yoklov: well what's the default handling?
18:36 yoklov: is it reverse order?
18:36 yoklov: e.g. super class takes the last values, then subclasses take the next ones?
18:36 asumu: Yes, it's that order.
18:37 asumu: That order may be more convenient for mixins or subclasses in the middle of the hierarchy.
18:37 asumu: Which know something about their immediate superclass, but not necessarily where the root is.
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18:38 asumu: And you don't want to have to pass the root (or someone higher uper) init arguments first.
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18:41 yoklov: hm, I guess I understand that, but if you have two classes which take two arguments each, then the order you have to pass becomes 3, 4, 1, 2 which seems really unintuitive
18:42 asumu: If the order becomes an issue, just use by-name arguments. They're clearer anyway.
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18:45 asumu: Also, actually quite a few things are by-name in racket/gui.
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18:45 asumu: It's just racket/draw that seems to avoid by-name inits to some degree.
18:45 asumu: Admittedly the init story is quite complex, unfortunately.
18:45 yoklov: Well, I guess I meant compared to normal functions, where if it's by name it's a kwarg
18:46 yoklov: versus a weird [somehow-not-an-error-identifier value] thing
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18:46 asumu: They predate keywords, I think.
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19:17 Cryovat: Hmm
19:18 Cryovat: I have an about-button in my program
19:18 Cryovat: What would be the correct platform-agnostic way to have it start a browser?
19:21 Cryovat: God, I'm stupid
19:22 Cryovat: The example for shell-execute is just that
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19:56 yoklov: anybody willing to give me feedback on this macro? I'm new to syntax-case, and I feel like it… could use some work: https://gist.github.com/2727844
19:58 yoklov: I wasn't sure how to deal with the ...s in a reasonable way
19:59 yoklov: my intuition is that maybe I should have tried to append-map over them?
20:03 yoklov: alternatively, is my intuition wrong, and it's just okay the way it is? (it does work, but it seemed like I had to trick it into working)
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20:43 danking: shawnps, stamourv: So there's this https://gist.github.com/2728373
20:43 danking: But that's not quite right because the constructor has to be make-name rather than just name.
20:43 danking: Also, the syntax for specifying default values is a bit odd.
20:55 danking: stamourv: Where does #%kernel come from in collects/racket/private/kernstruct.rkt ?
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21:31 danking: shawnps, stamourv: yet another hack, but this one with nicer syntax: https://gist.github.com/2728497
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23:39 mithos28: Is there a way to use raco make to compile with errortrace?
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