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00:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/oDPg_g
00:47 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Removing an error message from dropping HTTP connections - Jay McCarthy
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06:52 tim-brown: "raco setup" takes a long time... is racket installed once raco setup starts running
06:53 tim-brown: i want a full install, but i want to get on with building vim (which depends on racket) asap
06:53 mrcarrot: tim-brown: why would vim be depending on racket?
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06:54 mrcarrot is confused
06:54 tim-brown: because i'm doing an embedded-racket-in-vim build
06:54 mrcarrot: sounds interesting... do you have any documentation i can look at?
06:55 tim-brown: er... there's a patch brewing, to take us from mzscheme to racket
06:56 tim-brown: http://www.vim.org/account/profile.php?user_id=1888
06:56 tim-brown: for some of my tinkerings
06:56 tim-brown: hey... rudybot hasn't truncated that :-/
06:56 tim-brown: rudybot: you ok?
06:56 rudybot: tim-brown: Hmm, mutt seems to be OK with me just quoting the non <> part
06:56 tim-brown: that'll do
06:56 bremner: fsvo OK
06:57 mrcarrot: vim is too 1337 to be truncated :P
06:59 tim-brown: bremner: as per usual
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07:00 bremner: tim-brown: well, he doesn't speak unless spoken to, which is a big improvement on some trolls.
07:00 bremner: well, _mostly_ he doesn't speak unless spoken to.
07:00 tim-brown: maybe someone should port him to shenlanguage
07:02 tim-brown: does mzc get built towards the end of raco setup?
07:02 tim-brown: has it been obsoleted since 5.1?
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07:04 bremner: I have it with 5.2
07:04 tim-brown: ah well... spose i should wait for raco to bake it then
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07:24 tim-brown: bremner: been told that the patch is in the vim mercurial repository
07:24 bremner: did you mean to tell someone else?
07:24 tim-brown: sorry, yes
07:24 tim-brown: mrcarrot:  been told that the patch is in the vim mercurial repository
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07:26 mrcarrot: tim-brown: what exactly will the patch provide?
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07:27 mrcarrot: tim-brown: is it just those .vim files that where on vim.org?
07:27 mrcarrot: or is it more?
07:28 tim-brown: no, before the patch, vim couldn't be run with "vim +':mz #f'", i.e. run an mzscheme command as the first thing done by vim
07:28 tim-brown: the environment was wrong.
07:29 tim-brown: the patch is s.t. when vim is built with the mzscheme flags (which builds it with racket...)  main is properly trampolined into the scheme environment
07:29 tim-brown: making racket useful for such things as vim syntax colourings
07:29 tim-brown: (for languages like, er.... racket)
07:30 mrcarrot: so basically it gives opportunity to use racket as scripting language?
07:30 mrcarrot: i mean for making addons to vim?
07:30 mrcarrot: i am still a bit confused
07:31 tim-brown: i write racket (and scribblings) using vim
07:32 tim-brown: if nothing else, i'd like racket to inspect the forms it knows (syntaxes and functions), and allow it to highlight the code appropriately
07:33 tim-brown: which it does using my .vim scripts
07:34 mrcarrot: will this just work for mzscheme or also for full racket?
07:36 tim-brown: someone else has written a syntax parser for full racket -- wlangstroth -- that parses the syntax
07:36 tim-brown: i've got a script that loads the identifiers from the various racket libraries, and adds them to the list of known keywords
07:37 tim-brown: mind you, the wlangstroth syntax has plenty of keywords to get on with -- but without introspection it can never be comprehensive
07:38 tim-brown: (oh... in fact looking at the comments to my script, i pick up the scribble identifiers -- which makes scribbling in vim much clearer)
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08:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/E-PBVA
08:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] be a bit more systematic with tabbing and magic square-bracket-ing for 'for's - Robby Findler
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08:24 tim-brown: is the racket changelog available from drracket?
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08:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/Gs-0XA
08:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `record-dc%' problem with regions - Matthew Flatt
08:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `make-handle-brush' to retain original pointer - Matthew Flatt
08:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] draw picts in DrRacket with 'aligned smoothing - Matthew Flatt
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09:48 asumu: Yay for auto-tabbing for fors.
09:48 asumu: I think the tabbing for `for/fold` has been weird.
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10:12 samth: tim-brown: the changelog is just a text file
10:13 samth: but there isn't a special way to get it from drracket
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10:14 tim-brown: just thought it might be nice to download 5.2.1, and invoke (change-log) to get a string describing the changes since the last time i downloaded racket
10:15 tim-brown: (well, since 5.2, anyway -- i should pay attention to the accumulation of changes).
10:15 bremner: ah, lisp-machine-nostalgist ;)
10:15 tim-brown: am i?
10:15 tim-brown: i did it recently somewhere... i'm sure
10:15 bremner: well, the repl is not an obvious place to read a text file for me.
10:16 bremner: not saying it's a terrible idea or anything, I just wouldn't have thought of it.
10:18 tim-brown: i see what you mean... otoh, it's might be considered only a small step up from (system-big-endian?)
10:18 tim-brown: (version)
10:18 tim-brown: (banner)
10:33 offby1: rudybot: (version)
10:33 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: "5.2.900.1"
10:33 offby1: rudybot: (banner)
10:33 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.2.900.1.\n"
10:34 tim-brown: rudybot: (change-log)
10:34 rudybot: tim-brown: your sandbox is ready
10:34 rudybot: tim-brown: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: change-log in module: 'program
10:35 asumu: rudybot: (system-type)
10:35 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
10:35 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: unix
10:35 tim-brown: rudybot: (exact? 'ly)
10:35 rudybot: tim-brown: error: exact?: expects argument of type <number>; given: 'ly
10:36 tim-brown: that's interesting... "hello" isn't an exact number, either
10:37 tim-brown: rudybot: (current-thread-initial-stack-size)
10:37 rudybot: tim-brown: ; Value: 1000
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10:39 tim-brown: i'll stop taunting the dalek now
10:39 (quit) Fare: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
10:40 bremner: neither daleks nor cybermen are actually bots, more like prosthetics gone wild
10:42 tim-brown: neither is rudybot. it's just offby1 in a tinfoil suit
10:42 tim-brown: watch...
10:42 bremner: hawt
10:42 tim-brown: offby1: (prime? 982451653)
10:44 tim-brown: er... i might have crashed him
10:47 offby1 sighs
10:47 offby1: rudybot: you daid yet?
10:47 rudybot: *offby1: Indeed it is.  And I should have said "agreed," cause he daid now.
10:47 offby1 not daid
10:48 offby1: but then I was never one for testing primes
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10:49 tim-brown: :-)
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10:52 goodDocBadDoc: rudybot: racketnoob
10:52 rudybot: goodDocBadDoc: thank you for not trolling on the racket channel
10:52 goodDocBadDoc: hahaha, funny
10:53 goodDocBadDoc: this rudybot is really nice machine hehehe
10:53 goodDocBadDoc: eli: how are you?
10:53 goodDocBadDoc: eli: busy with new academic article?
10:54 goodDocBadDoc: eli: thank you once again for once-only macro explanation!
10:54 goodDocBadDoc: you're the man!
10:55 goodDocBadDoc: todays news from shen: Dr. Mark Tarver is pissed of by some guy who asked him why he sells his Qi book.
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: funny: https://groups.google.com/group/qilang/browse_thread/thread/2259bb5dbb054b20?hl=en
10:56 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/85nx7vw
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: "There is this weird attitude to money on the part of people who want
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: everything free and online, that money should not come into it or else
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: somehow it will work out in some unspecified trickle down economic
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: way.  The only people I know who had this aristocratic disdain for
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: money are the C18 French aristocrats and Richard Stallman.  They had
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: something in common; they both got other people to work for them.  The
10:56 goodDocBadDoc: first set were rumbled and taken to the guillotine. "
10:57 goodDocBadDoc: what you think about that, racket guys?
10:57 goodDocBadDoc: please
10:57 goodDocBadDoc: nooooooooo
11:01 offby1: samth: maybe block duo.carnet.hr ?
11:01 samth: offby1: i'm not sure how to do that
11:01 offby1: me neither
11:01 offby1: _  /mode #racket +b *!*@*.duo.carnet.hr maybe
11:02 stamourv: Looks right to me.
11:02 samth: /mode #racket +b *!*@*.duo.carnet.hr
11:02 stamourv: s/right/correct/
11:02 samth: done
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11:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/lvh4iQ
11:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] use regexp-match? instead of regexp-match in regexp-based contracts - Robby Findler
11:59 (part) RacketCommitBot
12:04 tim-brown: night everybody/everybot
12:05 offby1: goodnight crackheads
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13:11 arameus: How do I get the output of an external command?
13:11 arameus: I have been searching online and cannot find anything
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13:40 rapacity: arameus: you can use the process function and read off of the input-port
13:41 rapacity: you can also do something like this (with-output-to-string (thunk (system "date")))
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14:01 offby1: arameus: there's a whole pile of functions for interacting with processes
14:01 offby1: rudybot: doc subprocess
14:01 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
14:01 rudybot: *offby1: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/subprocess.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._subprocess))
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14:11 arameus: thanks, you guys are awesome!
14:15 dented42: I'm having a spot of trouble, in DrRacket I cannot pass (current-output-port) to the subprocess function.
14:15 offby1: dented42: can you paste a transcript?
14:16 dented42: sure, hang on
14:16 dented42: but I have no such trouble when I run it on the command line.
14:16 offby1: curious
14:17 offby1: perhaps it's the language level in drracket?
14:18 dented42: no
14:18 dented42: I'm using a #lang line
14:19 dented42: http://paste.lisp.org/+2R8Z
14:19 offby1: interesting.
14:20 dented42: the problem, as far as I can tell, is that on the command line the current-output-port is a file-stream-port, because internally it's just a file descriptor
14:21 dented42: but in DrRacket the current-output-port is a special type of port that isn't.
14:22 offby1: yu
14:22 offby1: yup
14:22 offby1: sounds like a bug to me; whine about it on the mailing list
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14:22 dented42: I'm not sure if the semantics of racket on the command line are supposed to be the same as DrRacket, so I'm wondering if I should file a… indeed.
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14:23 dented42: would this go in the users list of the dev list?
14:24 offby1: dev list
14:24 dented42: ok, thanks
14:24 offby1: I suspect it doesn't greatly matter though; they're a cool bunh
14:25 offby1: bunh
14:25 offby1: GAAAH
14:25 offby1: B U N C H
14:25 offby1: damn it
14:25 dented42: hehehehe
14:25 chandler: Yes, they're definitely a cool brunch.
14:26 offby1: with melons and chilled juice
14:26 dented42: oh, the lists are maintained by mflatt ^_^
14:27 dented42: he was my professor for my introductory CS classes
14:27 offby1: pff
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15:17 dented42: is there a way to bind an input port and an output port together?
15:20 dented42: similar to how you can pipe processes together in the unix shell
15:20 rapacity: iirc there was a function called pipe for that
15:20 rapacity: make-pipe maybe
15:21 rapacity: hmm
15:21 dented42: pipe just makes a buffer with an input port and an output port, but there doesn't seem to be a way to bind them to other ports
15:22 rapacity: check out copy-port
15:22 rapacity: rudybot: doc copy-port
15:22 rudybot: rapacity: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/port-lib.html#(def._((lib._racket%2Fport..rkt)._copy-port))
15:23 offby1: or make a thread that reads from one and writes to the other.  Perhaps that's all copy-port does
15:23 dented42: ah, that seems to be what I want
15:23 dented42: thanks
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15:41 Diarmid: I'm currently staring at the RSound documentation, wondering how to use it to do something like play background music (looping) in a game, while properly handling things like sound effects, since it looks like every time you play a new sound it stops playing whatever else was playing before it.
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16:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tnA6Dg
16:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Moving the place where formlet tech links go from the technical description to the tutorial - Jay McCarthy
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17:57 mmajchrzak: Hi . Racket is a strict academic use language ? Or maybe have some real world aplications ?
18:00 (quit) arameus: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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18:04 offby1: somewhere in between
18:04 (quit) Fare: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
18:05 offby1: there are some real world applications, but not as many as (say) Python
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18:07 mmajchrzak: any examples ? If racket is in the middle beetwen python and strict academic language then it must be popular and with common use
18:08 offby1: *shrug*
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18:12 mmajchrzak: ok i see. I will find something. But is it posible to make executable file from racket ?
18:13 offby1: yes
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18:20 stamourv: mmajchrzak: raco exe / raco distribute, IIRC.
18:21 (quit) kanak: Read error: Operation timed out
18:22 asumu: mmajchrzak: there are websites that run on Racket, for example.
18:22 asumu: Several people in this channel have talked about using Racket at work.
18:23 mmajchrzak: Ok thank you . I think that i will give a chance to racket. I know a basics from lisp ,and clojure so racket cant be harder then those . Right ?
18:24 offby1: *shrug*
18:24 offby1: it's similar
18:24 offby1: and different
18:24 offby1: you'll see
18:25 asumu: mmajchrzak: Having used Clojure and Racket, both have nice aspects. I think Racket has a better story for tooling and a nicer design.
18:26 asumu: Clojure is obviously nice for its JVM support, but aside from that it has some good ideas like its generics/dispatch mechanisms.
18:27 mmajchrzak: asumu but clojure is more popular. clojure hav a nice backstage with a java libs. How about racket libs ?
18:28 stamourv: mmajchrzak: Racket ships with a pretty large standard library, which includes a (really easy to use) cross-platform GUI library, a web server, a great DB library, etc.
18:29 stamourv: And PLaneT has a lot more libraries.
18:29 offby1: mmajchrzak: and a world-class FFI
18:29 stamourv: rudybot: doc planet
18:29 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
18:29 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/require.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt)._planet))
18:29 offby1: stamourv: aren't Java libraries easily accessible from Clojure?
18:29 stamourv: Right, what offby1 said. If you need a library that's missing, you can just grab a C library and wrap it.
18:29 rapacity: it's not hard to code a java ffi that automatically binds java libraries
18:29 stamourv: offby1: Yes, but I hear that they're pretty hard to use.
18:30 offby1: stamourv: oh, I didn't know that
18:30 stamourv: And that there's a pretty bad impedance mismatch between the style of the language and the style of the Java libs.
18:30 offby1: I thought that was sort of the whole point of Clojure
18:30 offby1: in theory I attend a local Clojure user group's meetings.
18:30 offby1: In practice I usually blow 'em off.
18:31 offby1: One's tomorrow night though.
18:31 stamourv: Interop between clojure data structures and java data structures is clunky, I hear.
18:31 asumu: So it depends on what you want to do. If you want to use XMPP with Racket, you're out of luck. Clojure can link to one of many Java implementations (which mostly all suck though).
18:31 stamourv: Disclaimer: I haven't actually used clojure, so I could be way off.
18:31 stamourv: Anyway, gotta go, see y'all tomorrow.
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18:41 mmajchrzak: stamourv In clojure you can use java gui libs. But you can nearly build a simple frame. Its possible to use nearly all java libs but it is very ,very difficult if you want build something more then "hello world" examples. So i think that clojure hava a chance to be nice adding to java ,especially with concurency.
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18:51 tommc: What's the meaning behind red-underlined functions in scribble docs?
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19:08 mmajchrzak: is there any kind of ide different then a DrScheme for racket ?
19:10 offby1: mmajchrzak: DrScheme is pretty much it.
19:10 offby1: You can try Emacs with geiser; it's kinda flaky
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19:17 mmajchrzak: i see thank you . DrScheme looks a little bit like a Smalltalks IDE. Its nothing wrong on course.
19:18 chandler: If you're using DrScheme, it sounds like you have a very old version. It's called DrRacket nowadays.
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19:25 offby1: oh yeah
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20:57 (nick) p -> Guest99029
20:57 Guest99029: soooo anyone help me with a function?
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21:11 offby1: maybe
21:12 offby1: gosh, 25 seconds
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22:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/rZA_Ww
22:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] quote-module-name and quote-module-path now take an optional submodule path - Kevin Tew
22:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Distributed place cleanup due to feedback from Matthew - Kevin Tew
22:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove unused variable compiler warning - Kevin Tew
22:17 (part) RacketCommitBot
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