00:07 asumu: ozzloy: here's an article on a similar topic: http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf
00:07 asumu: ozzloy: see here for more http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/class/hs/testimonials/
00:08 asumu: ISTR seeing some more studies in this vein (some using the HtDP curriculum) but I can't find any immediately.
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06:22 bremner: samth_away: jamessan: I guess the simplest thing from a Debian point of view would be to have somebody upstream add an LGPL header to that file, since you're in a better position to assess the history.
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10:18 samth: bremner: by upstream, do you mean racket?
10:19 samth: or aubrey jaffer?
10:19 bremner: racket is fine from my point of view
10:19 samth: bremner: ok, i'll look into it
10:20 bremner: thanks a lot, I realize these things are not _too_ rewarding.
10:20 samth: although from my perspective, i would say that it's currently covered under the COPYING file for the project, just like all the other files
10:20 samth: it just has a different copyright header, for the obvious reason
10:20 bremner: yeah, that is sensible, except look at clark-tests
10:23 samth: well, obviously that's problematic (both for you and for us)
10:23 samth: but it does have it's own license file
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10:24 bremner: ok, I guess I can see that point of view.
10:24 samth: but yes, we should fix clark-tests, since we're obviously violating its license
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12:41 mye: does (write) use (serialize) internally?
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12:44 samth: mye: no
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12:46 alexshendi: Good evening!
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13:18 bremner: samth: this isn't the question you asked, but I'm not sure Clark's license really allows derived works in any reasonable sense, so Debian might still take a pass on those files.
13:19 samth: bremner: sure, that makes sense
13:19 samth: but we need to fix it for ourselves
13:19 bremner: agreed
13:20 bremner: is there any point in talking to James? maybe if you shipped the checksums of the original files or something.
13:20 bremner: dunno what is less work.
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13:28 alexshendi: I'm having a question regarding the racket FFI. Can I pass a SRFI-4 homogenous vector by reference to a Fortran subroution, so it has access to the contents of the array?
13:29 samth: alexshendi: i don't know anything about the fortran ABI
13:29 samth: but i doubt it
13:30 samth: srfi/4 vectors are like C data structures, i believe
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13:31 alexshendi: That does not matter, as long as I can pass a "double *array" to the contents.
13:32 offby1: alexshendi: probably best to ask on the mailing list; I don't think the FFI whizzes hang out here much
13:32 alexshendi: Ok, thanx will do so.
13:43 samth: alexshendi: if you're passing something that in C would be a 'double*', then you should be able to use srfi/4 f64vectors just fine
13:45 alexshendi: samth: Thanks, will give it a try.
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18:39 lewis1711: racket has really become more polished these last few releases. since 5.0
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18:43 samth: lewis1711: glad you think so!
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18:47 lewis1711: yeah I really should try and learn more of the macro wizardry instead of just treating it like a scripting language with brackets
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20:07 jamessan: eli: the ssh key for pushes to githup needs to be re-authenticated so that the mirror starts being updated again (assuming the github mirroring is handled by you)
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20:15 lewis1711: so if I have a file "#racket lang (define x 3)", how can I start a repl with that file loaded and get the value of x? I've read the help page for racket and the manual and it never has any clue about what x is
20:17 bremner: what do you mean by "get the value"? print it out?
20:19 lewis1711: have it available to me
20:19 jamessan: 1) it's "#lang racket" 2) you want those on separate lines 3) you're missing a (provide x) so that binding is available external to the module defined by the file
20:20 lewis1711: yeah I just typed it all by memory to get the idea. and I see
20:20 bremner: but is that needed? certainly geiser can "enter the module"
20:20 jamessan: once all of that is done, "racket -i -t foo.rkt" will start the REPL with that file require'd
20:21 lewis1711: so if I want to play round with things in the repl I need to provide everything
20:21 lewis1711: ?
20:21 jamessan: bremner: dunno
20:21 bremner: xrepl is another option
20:22 jamessan: lewis1711: why not use drracket? then you can modify stuff in the definitions window and use the repl in the interactions window
20:22 bremner: http://docs.racket-lang.org/xrepl/index.html?q=xrepl
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20:23 lewis1711: xrepl looks good
20:23 lewis1711: jamessan: just some weird colour issues
20:23 lewis1711: dark colour scheme. plus I usually use vim
20:25 lewis1711: alright have it working with xrepl, thanks
20:29 bremner: \o/
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21:00 lewis1711: I've just rediscovered how bad vim as at indenting lisp. maybe drracket is a good idea after all
21:01 jamessan: or emacs :) I tend to use it instead of Vim when dealing with functional languages.  It usually has better support
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21:02 lewis1711: my brain isn't large enough to remember two weird text editors
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21:05 jamessan: evil-mode is shaping up to be a pretty good vim layer for emacs.  so you could get a setup where you have normal emacs capability in "insert" mode and a decent subset of vim functionality in other modes
21:07 lewis1711: drracket is less effort to learn though. I am going to dig through its options and see if you can configure it to ignore your systems colour scheme
21:07 (nick) LeNsTR -> LeNsTR|off
21:14 asumu: lewis1711: jonrafkind has a vim keybindings plugin for DrRacket on PLaneT.
21:14 asumu: I also have an experimental unreleased one on my github account.
21:15 lewis1711: I don't mind drrackets keybindings :) just a few things are invisible due to black text on black background
21:15 asumu: Also, vim in lisp mode is half-decent, though no Emacs + paredit.
21:15 jamessan: you can change the colors being used in DrRacket's preferences
21:16 lewis1711: I can change the colours of the source code, but not the colours of the actual "window". or can I? the issue I have is that bit below the menu that gives your file name is black on black
21:17 asumu: lewis1711: that sounds like a window manager issue. What OS are you on?
21:18 lewis1711: Ubuntu, using gtk and open box
21:18 lewis1711: it's probably just because I'm using a dark colour scheme
21:19 lewis1711: a handful of apps react badly to it
21:20 asumu: Ah, yeah that makes sense. Though it'd be nice if it followed the theme.
21:20 lewis1711: it does for most of it, just that one area
21:20 lewis1711: I'd be happier if it ignored the gtk theme and was just grey
21:20 asumu: lewis1711: you could try submitting a bug report or at least discussing the issue on the mailing list.
21:21 lewis1711: will do. 5.2 still the latest?
21:21 lewis1711 checks
21:22 lewis1711: well I'll try 5.2.1 just to be sure
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21:37 lewis1711: is there a shortish way to generate lists filled with the same thing? say a list of 10 0's
21:38 lewis1711: rudybot: (sequence->list (in-range 0 10))
21:38 rudybot: lewis1711: your sandbox is ready
21:38 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
21:38 chandler: rudybot: eval (make-list 10 0)
21:38 rudybot: chandler: your sandbox is ready
21:38 rudybot: chandler: ; Value: (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0)
21:38 lewis1711: ahhh
21:38 lewis1711: excellent, thanks
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22:42 lewis1711: so rationals seem to be implemented with bignums. can one get arbitrary precision floats then?
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22:43 lewis1711: oh no wait it seems bignums in racket are integer only
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22:54 chandler: rudybot: eval (/ 1 (expt 2 64))
22:54 rudybot: chandler: ; Value: 1/18446744073709551616
22:54 chandler: rudybot: eval (/ 1 (expt 2 128))
22:54 rudybot: chandler: ; Value: 1/340282366920938463463374607431768211456
22:54 offby1: WHO is giving such tiny numbers to my bot?!
22:55 offby1: chandler: what do you take him for?!  Give him bigger numbers!
22:55 lewis1711: that requires knowing the rational form though
22:55 lewis1711: I was after something like a decimal floating point class
22:55 lewis1711: one day maybe :)
22:56 offby1: rudybot: (expt 2 20)
22:56 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
22:56 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 1048576
22:56 offby1: that's just a drop in the bucket!
22:56 offby1: rudybot: (expt 2 (expt 2 20))
22:56 offby1 whistles innocently
22:56 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 67411401254990734022690651047042454376201859485326882846944915676742270700738254324012189093273958935189763096092662578499572617038706183124893135193833022989256953210196289468241672863888618038537874881666541392847226977445968742340884809089414305471324099320290445257669398812381147850679486141068777106846241963630108359641749212181836654212482724180596063317308977734704851773936716905551669397095763288202
22:56 offby1: now we're talkin'
22:56 rudybot: Thank you sir; may I have another?
22:56 lewis1711: lol
22:58 lewis1711: rudybot: (sequence-fold 1 * (in-range 0 100))
22:58 rudybot: lewis1711: your sandbox is ready
22:58 rudybot: lewis1711: error: sequence-fold: expected argument of type <procedure>; given 1
22:58 lewis1711: rudybot: (sequence-fold * 1 (in-range 0 100))
22:58 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: 0
22:59 lewis1711: rudybot: (fold * 1 (stream->list (in-range 0 100)))
22:59 rudybot: lewis1711: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: fold in module: 'program
22:59 lewis1711: rudybot: (foldl * 1 (stream->list (in-range 0 100)))
22:59 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: 0
23:00 lewis1711: ohh... I have it now
23:00 lewis1711: rudybot: (foldl * 1 (stream->list (in-range 1 100)))
23:00 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: 933262154439441526816992388562667004907159682643816214685929638952175999932299156089414639761565182862536979208272237582511852109168640000000000000000000000
23:00 lewis1711: that's better
23:00 offby1: rudybot: (for/fold ([result 1]) ([x (in-range 1 100)]) (* result x))
23:00 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 933262154439441526816992388562667004907159682643816214685929638952175999932299156089414639761565182862536979208272237582511852109168640000000000000000000000
23:01 offby1: more verbose but sorta more general, since there's a whole pile of for* thingies
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23:01 offby1: rudybot: (for/list ([x (in-range 1 10)][y (in-range x)]) (cons x y))
23:01 rudybot: *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: x in module: 'program
23:01 offby1: hmph
23:01 offby1: rudybot: (for*/list ([x (in-range 1 10)][y (in-range x)]) (cons x y))
23:01 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: ((1 . 0) (2 . 0) (2 . 1) (3 . 0) (3 . 1) (3 . 2) (4 . 0) (4 . 1) (4 . 2) (4 . 3) (5 . 0) (5 . 1) (5 . 2) (5 . 3) (5 . 4) (6 . 0) (6 . 1) (6 . 2) (6 . 3) (6 . 4) (6 . 5) (7 . 0) (7 . 1) (7 . 2) (7 . 3) (7 . 4) (7 . 5) (7 . 6) (8 . 0) (8 . 1) (8 . 2) (8 . 3) (8 . 4) (8 . 5) (8 . 6) (8 . 7) (9 . 0) (9 . 1) (9 . 2) (9 . 3) (9 . 4) (9 . 5) (9 . 6) (9 . 7) (9 . 8))
23:01 offby1 leans back
23:04 lewis1711: (foldl + 0 (make-list 10 0.1))
23:04 lewis1711: rudybot: (foldl + 0 (make-list 10 0.1))
23:04 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: 0.9999999999999999
23:04 lewis1711: :(
23:05 offby1: rudybot: (foldl + 0 (make-list 10 #e0.1))
23:05 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 1
23:05 offby1 pats lewis1711 on the head
23:05 lewis1711: !!! what is #E
23:05 lewis1711: or #e
23:05 offby1: it means "exact, damn it"
23:05 offby1: rudybot: (foldl + 0 (make-list 10 1/10))
23:05 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 1
23:05 lewis1711: where on earth is this documented?
23:06 offby1: the racket manual, of course
23:06 offby1: numeric constants with a decimal point are inexact by default
23:06 lewis1711: I didn't know racket was capable of exact flonums
23:06 lewis1711: I was obviously looking in the wrong place
23:06 offby1: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/reader.html?q=%23e#(idx._(gentag._10._(lib._scribblings/reference/reference..scrbl)))
23:06 offby1 nudges rudybot
23:07 offby1: he's supposed to shorten long URLs.
23:07 offby1: slacker
23:10 lewis1711: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/numbers.html I figured I'd find it in here somewhere
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23:17 lewis1711: offby1: (for/fold ([result 1]) ([x (in-range 1 100)]) (* result x))  why is it better to do it that way?
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23:19 offby1: *shrug*
23:19 offby1: not necessarily bette.r
23:19 offby1: but the various for/* forms are flexible, as you can see with my two-variable example above
23:21 lewis1711: I guess so. list comprehensions are handy
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23:45 lewis1711: can one supress the printing of results?
23:46 mithos28: yes
23:46 mithos28: use void
23:47 mithos28: (void expression)
23:49 lewis1711: excellent