00:00 jonrafkind: porting code to me means manually changing code around until it works
00:00 neilv: it was a bit more involved than that. it's not a trivial program
00:00 neilv: but you are to be commended for the "/.". lots of people don't know to do that
00:01 jonrafkind: \o/
00:01 jonrafkind: of course the /. is redundant; 'cp a/x b' is good enough
00:02 neilv: sometimes depends on whether "b" exists
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10:34 vperic: Hi, I installed Racket on my openSUSE (the "Fedora" package), but... I don't have the gui. Do I have to compile it myself in that case, or is it just hidden somewhere I can't see it? Thanks!
10:34 chandler: vperic: Chances are the package didn't include any .desktop files so that the GUI tools could show up in whatever your desktop environment calls its start menu.
10:34 chandler: Try running "drracket" from a command line.
10:35 vperic: chandler: doh, that's it! I was running just "racket" and getting the command-line, only.. thanks!
10:35 chandler: No problem.
10:37 vperic: Now just to program the maze simulation.. :)
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10:56 stamourv: vperic: If that's not homework, I have some pointers for you.
10:57 yvesf: are there any special requirements for bug-reports that i could have missed, because my report (#414) just got deleted?
10:58 stamourv: yvesf: Are you reporting a bug on GitHub, or on bugs.racket-lang.org, or from DrRacket?
10:58 yvesf: stamourv: http://planet.racket-lang.org/trac/ticket/414
10:58 yvesf: via trac
10:58 stamourv: Ok, so a PLaneT bug.
10:59 stamourv: I would ask on the Racket mailing list, the person responsible for PLaneT is not on IRC.
11:07 vperic: stamourv: It is homework, but I'd appreciate pointers nonetheless. The assignment is kinda.. non-trivial, considering we only learned about car, cdr, let, lambda and such so far... https://cw.felk.cvut.cz/lib/exe/fetch.php/courses/a4b33flp/flp2012_scheme_1.pdf
11:07 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7hjctzs
11:08 vperic: or, even better, could you suggest a book where I can grasp the basics of scheme quickly?
11:09 stamourv: HTDP (htdp.org) is a great book. It teaches the fundamentals of programming using Racket-based teaching languages.
11:09 stamourv: Mostly, you will learn general design concepts, but you should pick up the basics of Racket along the way.
11:10 stamourv: The 2nd edition (not complete yet) is even better (for the parts that have been written): http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/
11:12 vperic: stamourv: ok, thanks, that's the one I found on my own too, but I'll try to take a look at the second edition then.
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11:14 stamourv: It's not complete, but I like some of the explanations better.
11:14 vperic: ok, hopefully it'll be enough for my purposes
11:14 stamourv: And once you reach the end of what's been written so far, you should be comfortable enough with the basics to be able to switch to the first edition easily.
11:14 stamourv: That's often how we teach it.
11:15 vperic: I like that we are learning Scheme // functional programming, but it would really help if the teacher a) had some kind of program, b) actually knew how to speak English
11:15 vperic: ok
11:20 vperic: Is there some kind of auto-complete in DrRacket?
11:21 stamourv: Not that I know of, but I don't use it all that often, so maybe I'm forgetting something.
11:22 chandler: Yes, there is. Edit -> Complete Word; I'm not sure what the keyboard shortcut will be on Linux (I'm currently on a Mac).
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11:22 stamourv: I stand corrected, thanks chandler.
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11:44 vperic: yeah, unfortunately, works only for built-in functions and isn't really practical.. ah well :)
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11:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/63QrnA
11:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Initial Distributed Places commit - Kevin Tew
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11:49 bremner: vperic: if you are an emacs fan, there is geiser, which has a different completion facility
11:49 vperic: bremner: Nah, I'm just a simple student trying to do my classes, I'd just love to have bash-style tab completition or something.
11:54 stamourv: Auto-completion is hard in a dynamically typed language.
11:55 stamourv: And the non "object.method" syntax makes it harder too.
11:55 stamourv: IIRC, F# added that syntax just because it helped completion.
11:55 bremner: on the plus side, there is less boilerplate
11:55 vperic: right, I understand :)
11:55 bremner: compared to java
11:55 stamourv: But yeah, if you're comfortable with emacs, geiser can help you there. Or even just plain dabbrev.
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16:50 offby1: down boy
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20:35 jamessan: bremner: hmm, libjpeg-dev being libjpeg8 isn't making drracket happy -- it looks for libjpeg62 -- and the build doesn't fail nor does the package have a depends on the library since there's nothing (yet) that figures out from the .zo files what libraries are actually being used
20:37 samth: jamessan: relevant code is here: https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/collects/racket/draw/unsafe/jpeg.rkt
20:37 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7fxwp6t
20:39 jamessan: samth: yeah, testing a build now with that changed from 62 to 8
20:40 samth: jamessan: you should add "8" to that list
20:40 jamessan: my bigger concern is the lack of problems in the build or any automatic dependencies being generated
20:40 samth: rather than changing "62"
20:40 samth: also, there's no way you could possibly figure out from the zo files that it was using libjpeg
20:41 samth: it's done totally dynamically
20:41 jamessan: since I just realized that our packages likely haven't been working for a few months
20:41 jamessan: :(
20:41 samth: that "62" could come from user input if you wanted
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20:42 jamessan: sure, but it doesn't in this case and it'd be good to make sure we either have the right version or there's a failure somewhere, preferably before it gets to a user
20:46 samth: jamessan: the right thing is to run the tests
20:47 jamessan: I thought that was happening as part of the build now...
20:47 samth: probably just 'racket -e (require racket/draw)'
20:47 samth: jamessan: you might only be running the tests for the command line
20:49 jamessan: we're not specifically running any.  I had been looking at running tests/racket/quiet but then thought I saw tests being run as part of the standard build process
20:50 samth: jamessan: no, no tests run as part of the build
20:53 jamessan: hmm, then it may have been that we've removed files due to unsure licensing which prevent the tests from running.  I should ping bremner about those again
20:54 bremner: jamessan: definitely some of the tests have problematic licensing.
20:56 bremner: looking at the build log, it looks like at least some things called "tests" are run
20:57 bremner: that last build log I had handy was 5.1.3, though.
21:05 jamessan: bremner: collects/tests/racket/testing.rktl is the relevant file that we would need to resolve
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21:48 bremner: yup, I deleted that one
21:50 bremner: jamessan: well, it doesn't say it _isn't_ LGPL
22:05 samth: bremner: here's the ancestor of that file, under the LGPL: http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/scm/scm/r4rstest.scm?view=markup
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23:20 ozzloy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9REURTUJR_I pretty sure this video mentions studies on using racket to introduce programming and math.  where are these studies?
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23:28 ozzloy: jonrafkind, do you know of any study where one set of students was taught using a scheme dialect and another was taught c++ and then the next year they all did c++ and the schemers did better than the c++ers at c++?
23:28 jonrafkind: not a clue
23:28 ozzloy: damnit
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