00:22 (quit) vkz: Quit: vkz
00:24 (quit) dsantiago: Read error: Connection reset by peer
00:37 (join) cdidd
00:51 (quit) mceier: Quit: leaving
01:05 Kaylin: I have a question you guys, I have been getting marked down for silly things all quarter.  This is part of my assignment:
01:05 Kaylin: Implement a function called eval-at which takes as input a formula of the sort defined
01:05 Kaylin: above and one line of a table of truth assignments. The form of the “one line of a
01:05 Kaylin: table of truth assignment are simply elements of what truth-table returns, i.e., a list
01:05 Kaylin: of pairs, the first element of which is a propositional variable and the second is a
01:05 Kaylin: constant, either #t or #f. For example, the call,
01:05 Kaylin: (eval-at ‘(p or( (not q) and r)) ((p #f) (q #f) (r #t)))
01:05 Kaylin: should yield #t.
01:06 Kaylin: but my function looks like
01:06 Kaylin: (eval-at '(p or( (not q) and r)) '((p #f) (q #f) (r #t)))
01:06 Kaylin: and I get errors doing it his way about p or q or r or w/e I name the variables not being defined, I'm totally unsure how I would go about fixing it, or if this is just simply a typo in the assignment but now I am paranoid
01:09 Kaylin: (define eval-at (lambda (statement values) (if (null? values) (E statement) (eval-at (substitute (caar values) (cdar values) statement)(cdr values)))))
01:09 Kaylin: is my function, E and substitute are both functions that we made for a previous assignment, but his versions of them provided for this assignment in case we didn't do a previous assignment, we could still get credit for this one.
01:12 (join) yoklov
01:15 (join) dsantiago
01:15 asumu: Kaylin: That seems like a typo, but you should probably ask your instructor.
01:16 Kaylin: ok ty
01:16 Kaylin: I did but he's notoriously slow so I figured I'd ask here and see if you guys could think of something I didn't.
01:17 Kaylin: :)
01:57 (quit) rudybot: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
02:00 (quit) offby1: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
02:27 (quit) sethalves: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
02:32 (join) nilyaK
02:33 (quit) dous: Remote host closed the connection
02:38 (quit) yoklov: Quit: computer sleeping
02:46 (join) sethalves
02:50 (quit) sethalves: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
02:52 (join) sethalves
02:55 (join) ssbr_
02:55 ssbr_: Is there any easy way to grab the first positional command line argument? something like args[0] in Java, or sys.argv[1] in Python
02:57 nilyaK: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Command-Line_Parsing.html might be what you're looking for?
02:57 ssbr_: nilyaK: it might. I was hoping for something really simple.
02:58 Kaylin: yea, I'm pretty new to this language so I'm not sure if there's something different, but I remember seeing that back when I looked through the documentation for fun :X
02:58 Kaylin: the site's pretty good though you might be able to dig something else up if it's there
02:59 ssbr_: I'm not developing a command-line app, so the extra overhead in learning is more harm than good. If the only way to access command line arguments is racket/cmdline, I guess that's what I have to do, though.
03:00 ssbr_: Hm. Is there no way to define positional arguments using racket/cmdline?
03:00 ssbr_: e.g. an argument where you do "./program foo" instead of "./program -e foo"
03:01 ssbr_: ah wait, could abuse arg-formals for this, I think.
03:01 ssbr_: nilyaK: do you know of anything more """straightforward"""?
03:01 nilyaK: I don't but I'm not the person to ask, I'm just a newbie who thought racket was pretty neat.
03:03 nilyaK: hopefully other people will respond :)
03:07 nilyaK: hmm, is this useful? or is that just for the racket compiler/IDE itself
03:07 nilyaK: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/runtime.html?q=command%20line#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._current-command-line-arguments%29%29
03:09 (join) dous
03:14 (quit) Kaylin: Read error: Connection reset by peer
03:15 ssbr_: nilyaK: aha, that looks perfect?
03:15 ssbr_: s/?/!/
03:15 nilyaK: :)
03:18 ssbr_: *sigh*
03:18 ssbr_: apparently I can't (include (vector-ref (current-command-line-arguments) 0))
03:20 ssbr_: Any suggestions? I want to execute student code in the current file, and then run some tests on it (because the files don't export the function, because the prof forgot to include that line in the file skeleton)
03:20 ssbr_: (so I can't import them normally)
03:21 nilyaK: I think you're beyond my limited experience with this now sorry :( usually people are a bit more talkative
03:22 (join) vkz
03:22 ssbr_: maybe I should pick a better time than 3AM in the morning to grade assignments
03:22 ssbr_: ... nah.
03:22 nilyaK: did the students not send you the source or what?
03:23 ssbr_: nilyaK: I have source, the source is just unusable unless I alter it or "include" it somehow, because it has no exports.
03:23 nilyaK: oh you can include files I think
03:23 ssbr_: Yes, but only if I include a string literal
03:23 nilyaK: I swear I did that in the web tutorial
03:24 ssbr_: (define x "a") (include x) doesn't work; (include "a") does
03:25 ssbr_: maybe I should just dynamically construct scheme code with the appropriate include
03:25 ssbr_: (I wonder what the best way to do that is?)
03:25 nilyaK: (require "myfile.rkt") like that to add a file and put (provide (all-defined-out)) in the file you're including I think, it's used in the web example here about half way down http://docs.racket-lang.org/continue/
03:31 nilyaK: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/require.html?q=all-defined-out#%28form._%28%28lib._racket/private/base..rkt%29._all-defined-out%29%29 is the link to that
03:32 (join) mithos28
03:38 (quit) EmmanuelOga: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
03:39 ssbr_: nilyaK: Right
03:40 ssbr_: but I'm not going to manually edit a bunch of files to add provide statements. I'm not even gonna do it automatically, because that's not quite trivial either (it has to go on the _second_ line!)
03:40 ssbr_: eval is the answer to everything!
03:40 nilyaK: ok :)
03:41 nilyaK: provide can be at the end I think
03:41 nilyaK: so you could open in append mode :P
03:46 (join) Technodrome
03:47 Technodrome: who here has been lucky enough to use the web stuff in racket?
03:47 nilyaK: I did the web tutorial, what do you mean by use the web stuff :O
03:51 (nick) nilyaK -> Kaylin
03:57 ssbr_: Ack, what's the right way to display an error if one occurs, but continue on in the program?
03:57 ssbr_: python and java both have a way of just printing the stack trace as it would appear if the exception bubbled up and terminated the program
03:58 ssbr_: ((error-display-handler) "foo" e) doesn't seem to show the stack trace for e, or even what error e is -- it just displays "foo".
03:58 Kaylin: well what are you doing just test cases? I mean I know there's a way to do it but how are you grading these
03:58 Kaylin: if it's test cases you can try one, it'll return an error and you can run another one
03:58 Kaylin: there's np doing that
03:59 ssbr_: Kaylin: I'm running a few tests and printing the output to stdout.
03:59 Kaylin: ah ok
03:59 ssbr_: I could make each test case a separate scheme program, it's just less convenient. Or rather, was for Python and Java
03:59 Kaylin: bc drracket has traces and such
03:59 ssbr_: (the programs are in 3 languages, so I'm trying to centralize the actual autograding)
03:59 ssbr_: (thus stdout)
03:59 Kaylin: ah ok
04:00 mithos28: I think the error-display handler is the way to go, i'm not sure why it isn't working for you
04:00 ssbr_: mithos28: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/560665/
04:01 ssbr_: that's the output from when I did `(with-handlers ([exn:fail? (lambda (e) ((error-display-handler) e e))]) (print-preorder x)))
04:01 ssbr_: errr
04:01 ssbr_: ((error-display-handler) "oops" e)
04:01 ssbr_: as you can see, the output is useless.
04:03 mithos28: that does match my testing as well
04:03 ssbr_: Right. So How do I make it say errors like "exn:fail:contract:... divide by 0 bad!" instead? Especially with stack information included.
04:04 mithos28: do you get stack information when just doing (error 'foo)
04:04 mithos28: because I am not in the command line
04:05 ssbr_: mithos28: I do, in the command line
04:05 ssbr_: in this weird "=== context ===" section.
04:05 mithos28: ok, then it is just xrepl hiding it
04:06 mithos28: That is probably why I am having trouble, since that changes the error-display-handler
04:06 ssbr_: uhhhh
04:06 ssbr_: by "in the command line", I meant "in the repl"
04:07 mithos28: in drracket repl, or command line repl?
04:07 ssbr_: command line repl
04:07 mithos28: and that explained what I saw, not your issue
04:08 mithos28: I get the stack trace in drracket
04:08 mithos28: with you with-handlers expression
04:09 Kaylin: and pretty red arrows
04:09 ssbr_: Huh?
04:09 mithos28: i hate loading drracket, it has made my machine grind to a halt
04:09 ssbr_: this is what I get in drracket:
04:09 ssbr_: > (with-handlers ([exn:fail? (lambda (e) ((error-display-handler) "oops" e))]) (/ 1 0))
04:09 ssbr_: oops
04:09 ssbr_: that's it: "oops"
04:10 mithos28: do you see any red x stop signs next to it?
04:10 ssbr_: No
04:10 ssbr_: Besides which, its behavior in a program is what concerns me; I get only "oops" there, too.
04:10 mithos28: i am only getting that in the command line, without the repl
04:11 ssbr_: Right. So how do I get a real error message?
04:11 ssbr_: Outside of the DrRacket REPL, which has vastly different behavior in a number of respects, apparently
04:11 ssbr_: (for example, it allows you to invoke ((error-display-handler) e e), which is not valid in general)
04:11 mithos28: It has a different way of showing the information
04:11 ssbr_: mithos28: it shows different information (to you).
04:12 mithos28: and has a more lenient way of showing that information
04:12 ssbr_: How do I show the full error message when running a racket program?
04:12 mithos28: I think what you are doing should work, and you are seeing a bug
04:12 ssbr_: Well that's just great.
04:12 mithos28: But I am also trying to find you a workaround
04:12 mithos28: haven't gotten it yet though
04:13 ssbr_: I'm using racket 5.2 from Fedora, ftr
04:13 mithos28: I'm using a nightly build from who knows when
04:15 (nick) Kaylin -> nilyaK
04:16 (quit) Technodrome: Read error: Connection reset by peer
04:16 (join) Technodrome
04:20 (join) Kaylin
04:21 ssbr_: Yeah, I'm giving up for now.
04:21 ssbr_: I'll ask again when there's more people online. :/
04:21 mithos28: So It looks like the error is getting generated without a context for me
04:22 mithos28: most people are in EDT
04:22 mithos28: or EST now
04:22 mithos28: that will switch in a couple weeks
04:23 ssbr_: So am I! :)
04:23 ssbr_: I just have the sleep schedule of an owl on cocaine
04:23 mithos28: Well get some sleep then its almost sunrise
04:23 Kaylin is PDT
04:23 Kaylin: you and me both ssbr_
04:23 ssbr_: mithos28: I woke up around 6PM :)
04:23 mithos28: ah
04:23 Kaylin: I'll be up till 7 or so and get up around 11AM
04:23 mithos28: Kaylin, isn't it still PST?
04:23 Kaylin: idk what it is
04:23 Kaylin: it's someting
04:24 Kaylin: what it is, is 1:24
04:24 mithos28: yes
04:24 Kaylin: and otherwise I get confused
04:24 Kaylin: I really think we should just
04:24 Kaylin: do everything in GMT
04:24 mithos28: That would be way too easy
04:25 ssbr_: UTC*
04:25 Kaylin: quick somebody submit it as a standard nobody follows
04:25 mithos28: UTC is also an abomination
04:25 mithos28: TAI
04:25 ssbr_: UTC is an abomination? do you mean the acronym
04:26 mithos28: guess how many seconds UTC thinks June 30 has this year
04:26 ssbr_: Universal Time Coordinated. does not make sense. In any language.
04:26 mithos28: there is that aswell
04:26 Kaylin: we should just call it TFT, the f'ing time
04:26 mithos28: (hint, it is not the same as June 29)
04:27 ssbr_: mithos28: Sure, but that's because time is screwed up
04:27 ssbr_: we try to base the time on rotation of the earth, but the rotation of the earth isn't constant. So something has to give.
04:27 ssbr_ thinks we should measure days in percentages
04:27 mithos28: make it, with rockets
04:28 mithos28: ssbr_: so I think your bug is that the context is not getting filled
04:29 mithos28: Which means that no workaround I can think of will help as the information isn't getting generated
04:29 ssbr_: Gross.
04:29 ssbr_: Well how do I at least display the exception? some kind of exn->string thing would be nice
04:29 mithos28: exn-message
04:31 ssbr_: yaaaay: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/560668/
04:32 ssbr_: and just to finish off the begin with a (void) to get rid of that trailing thing... and... woo!
04:32 mithos28: I now think it might not be a bug, and just aggressive optimizations
04:32 mithos28: since the context is not meant to be exact
04:33 ssbr_: mithos28: Well, if the full source helps any: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/560670/
04:33 ssbr_: (also the syntax highlighter there is really bad)
04:34 mithos28: I think aggressive optimizations
04:34 mithos28: What are you expecting the 'stack' to have on it when the exception is raised?
04:35 ssbr_: mithos28: In this case? Probably nothing, since no calls were done when it blew up.
04:36 mithos28: right, so it doesn't have anything to print and prints nothing
04:36 ssbr_: Well, no. I'd expect at least a line number.
04:36 ssbr_: since there's still the bottom of the stack.
04:36 mithos28: a line number from where?
04:36 ssbr_: mithos28: the eval'd code, the entire source file, doesn't matter
04:37 ssbr_: line 21, or line 10
04:38 ssbr_: Also, that reminds me, print-preorder _does_ exist. what's going on here :<
04:38 ssbr_: do includes not work like I expected them to? (glue in source code)
04:39 ssbr_: The included file is http://paste.pocoo.org/show/MBcgs6QpmxWWoHBgTYuH/
04:39 mithos28: why are you including a module?
04:40 mithos28: that is you problem
04:40 ssbr_: mithos28: I need to grab some source code and run the function defined in it.
04:40 ssbr_: that's really it. the source code defines no exports or anything like that.
04:40 mithos28: then it is dead and optimized away
04:40 mithos28: it doesn't exist
04:40 ssbr_: How does it not exist?
04:41 ssbr_: an included file is deleted after inclusion?
04:41 mithos28: no you included a module
04:41 ssbr_: I thought I included a source file
04:41 mithos28: #lang racket defines a module
04:41 ssbr_: mithos28: so it's not allowed to have the #lang declaration?
04:41 mithos28: adds the equivalent of (module racket _ <body>) around the body forms
04:42 ssbr_: OK, so, how do I just grab the function from that file?
04:42 mithos28: remove the #lang should work
04:42 Kaylin: this is what happens when I try to help :(
04:42 ssbr_: Kaylin: you didn't tell me this, I did this
04:42 ssbr_: mithos28: uh, I don't suppose there's another way?
04:42 mithos28: export it
04:43 mithos28: that is the correct way
04:43 ssbr_: not that this isn't easy, I just don't like doing automated modifications of student source code
04:43 mithos28: you have the problem that this is student code right
04:43 ssbr_: mithos28: yes
04:43 ssbr_: so there's no other way than these two?
04:43 mithos28: ok so what does the student code look like?
04:43 ssbr_: if so, fine, I'll do a tail on all of them
04:43 mithos28: a #lang racket and then their function definitions?
04:44 ssbr_: mithos28: Yes.
04:44 ssbr_: they work off of the template given at http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~gfb/csc324/2012W/A0.Q3.rkt
04:44 mithos28: why not add the provide to the end?
04:44 ssbr_: mithos28: I didn't know you could.
04:44 ssbr_: Also, at this point, it's probably easier to remove the #lang than add the provide, since if I remove the #lang my include should work, yes?
04:45 mithos28: should
04:45 ssbr_: (whereas if I add a provide, I have to rewrite the include to be an import)
04:45 mithos28: to require
04:45 ssbr_: yes, that.
04:45 mithos28: you are already using eval
04:45 mithos28: so with that come many problems
04:46 mithos28: try the tail
04:46 mithos28: and next assigment have the provides in there to begin with
04:47 ssbr_: mithos28: I don't make the assignments :< :<
04:47 mithos28: are you just a grader and not TA?
04:47 ssbr_: mithos28: TAs don't create assignments in this university.
04:47 Kaylin: they don't at mine either it's very sad :(
04:47 ssbr_: They do tutorial lectures, labwork, office hours, grading, and every other bit of being a professor, but not assignment creation
04:47 mithos28: well tell who's ever in charge to do that
04:48 ssbr_: mithos28: he realized his mistake only after he gave me the assignments. "Oh, yeah, I forgot to add the provide. *shrug*"
04:48 ssbr_: I do remember him noting it. I didn't realize it was this bad.
04:48 Kaylin: it'd be awesome if they did, last quarter I got to be a TA because they didn't have enough grad students to do it
04:48 mithos28: We just used a language that provided them all automatically
04:48 Kaylin: and the assignments the poor students got were resused from like the early 90's making webpages
04:48 Kaylin: and some of the stuff was archaic I was like ok guys do it this way this is awful.
04:48 (quit) realitygrill: Read error: Connection reset by peer
04:48 ssbr_: Kaylin: most TAs would make assignments that are even worse
04:48 ssbr_: profs are bad, TAs are worse
04:48 (join) realitygrill
04:49 mithos28: I don't think the assignments I made were bad
04:49 ssbr_: but yes, there's a weird thing when, as a TA, you're handed a thing where the "right answer" is something stupid like "there are only two types of programming: imperative and logical"
04:49 ssbr_: I tend to ignore the rubric when that happens.
04:49 mithos28: but I didn't make too many, they mostly stayed the same year over year
04:50 mithos28: oh rubrics, those didn't exist for me
04:50 mithos28: we would literally decide on them right before we graded the assignment
04:52 Kaylin: I remember part of one beginning web page assignment was like change the title of your page so it is bold, I'm like wait a second the title goes in the title bar, something is wrong on the Internet!
04:53 mithos28: Yes, the assignment was to implement a remote code execution attack on the users browser and then glitch the windowing toolkit to make it bold
04:54 ssbr_: mithos28: Well, in this course I'm given free reign to decide my own rubric
04:54 ssbr_: In lower year courses, TAs are given very strict marking guidelines
04:54 mithos28: so 0s for those who don't put provides in the next assignments, after you send out an email
04:55 ssbr_: mithos28: anyway, thanks so much for your help. It appears to work :)
04:55 Kaylin: I was a nice TA, I didn't mark people down for putting the wrong subject line or giving me a link that didn't work as long as I could dig through the webserver to find it, maybe that was too nise =/
04:55 mithos28: ok, I'll be up for a bit more if you run into any issues
04:55 Kaylin: nice*
04:55 ssbr_: Kaylin: I give people full marks even when they use tabs when the assignment says "spaces"
04:56 Kaylin: as you should, I think.
04:56 ssbr_: I don't know how they can be stupid enough to use tabs when the assignment specifically, several times, explicitly says "spaces".
04:56 mithos28: ssbr_: is that for python?
04:56 ssbr_: but their code worked completely correctly, so whatever.
04:56 mithos28: or haskell?
04:56 ssbr_: mithos28: they're supposed to take a list/S-expression and format it in a certain indented style
04:56 ssbr_: the indented style uses spaces
04:56 ssbr_: but some people used tabs instead for no discernable reason
04:56 mithos28: ah, so not their code but the output
04:56 ssbr_: Right.
04:57 mithos28: that makes much more sense
04:57 ssbr_: also, when the assignment says "tuples", why would you use "lists"? even when you name your variable "tuples"? what kind of cognitive dissonance is this
04:57 ssbr_: I swear my students have brain problems
05:03 Kaylin: I swear my professors have problems. assignments this quarter my god.  implement a hash table for this assignment to parse this huge text file. you may use any function you want.
05:04 Kaylin: (uses perfect hash function)
05:04 Kaylin: NO, I wanted you to demonstrate you can handle hash collision -40%.
05:04 Kaylin: it's like 1. do you know how long it took me to come up with this?
05:04 Kaylin: 2. in the two times I talked to you and every class and every version of the assignment, it said nothing about collision.
05:06 ssbr_: Kaylin: What.
05:07 ssbr_: I'd bully my way out of that deduction and/or drop the course.
05:07 ssbr_: (also what. why did this student save his python source code in a racket file. GAAH.)
05:08 Kaylin: I've been deducted like that on every assignment since the midterm at the point I could have dropped the course so
05:08 Kaylin: I'm currently getting like a 57% F?  it's pretty classy
05:08 Kaylin: if I don't for some reason not get the same BS on the next 2 assignments and the final
05:09 Kaylin: I'm going to have to take it again and def not with this professor
05:09 Kaylin: which is dumb because like, I know what I'm doing here.
05:10 ssbr_: Kaylin: Yeah. that's disgusting. :/
05:15 (quit) vkz: Quit: vkz
05:28 (join) dedal
05:36 (join) Skola
05:40 (quit) cdidd: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
05:44 (join) cdidd
05:47 (join) MayDaniel
05:47 (quit) MayDaniel: Changing host
05:47 (join) MayDaniel
05:51 (quit) dedal: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
05:58 (join) bluezenix
06:05 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
06:13 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
06:21 Kaylin: look at that done with homework and going to bed early tonight
06:21 Kaylin: ish
06:22 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: sleeping
06:23 (quit) nilyaK: Quit: also sleeping
06:26 (quit) Technodrome: Quit: Leaving.
07:37 (join) masm
07:46 (join) mceier
07:54 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer
08:03 (quit) dous: Remote host closed the connection
08:05 (join) dous
08:09 (join) JohnnyL
08:33 (join) MayDaniel
08:44 (join) Technodrome
08:54 JohnnyL: what's the purpose of a macro over a normal function?
09:07 ssbr_: JohnnyL: Doing things that functions can't, of course.
09:07 ssbr_: Perhaps you're having trouble of thinking of things that can't be done with functions? You can't define "and" or "let" with a function, but you could define them using a macro
09:09 ssbr_: (define-syntax and (syntax-rules () [(and) #t] [(and clause1 clauses ...) (if (not clause1) clause1 (and clauses...))]))
09:09 ssbr_: (totally untested)
09:09 (join) jeapostrophe
09:12 ssbr_: Probably ought to add [(and2 clause) clause]
09:12 ssbr_: eh, (and clause) ;)
09:14 (join) vkz
09:22 (join) gciolli
09:38 (quit) vkz: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
09:39 (join) dzhus
09:39 (join) vkz
09:42 (join) rudybot
09:43 (join) offby1
09:53 (quit) sethalves: Quit: ERC Version 5.1.4 (IRC client for Emacs)
09:58 (quit) Fulax: Remote host closed the connection
09:59 (quit) gciolli: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
10:07 (join) sethalves
10:11 (quit) Technodrome: Quit: Leaving.
10:12 (quit) dous: Remote host closed the connection
10:13 (join) dous
10:15 (quit) vkz: Quit: vkz
10:19 (join) yoklov
10:23 (join) vkz
10:26 (quit) offby1: Read error: Connection reset by peer
10:26 (join) offby1
10:34 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer
10:41 (join) Fulax
10:42 (quit) Skola: Quit: Lost terminal
10:48 (quit) vkz: Quit: vkz
10:54 (join) jonrafkind
10:54 JohnnyL: > #lang slideshow
10:54 JohnnyL: read: #lang not enabled in the current context
10:57 (nick) sethalves -> sethAway
10:59 (join) gridaphobe
11:01 offby1: I have this vague idea that certain langs need a prefix
11:01 offby1: rudybot: init slideshow
11:01 offby1 twiddles thumbs
11:01 asumu: JohnnyL: Do you have a question? If that's in the REPL, it won't work. #lang only works in source files.
11:01 rudybot: offby1: error: file-or-directory-modify-seconds: `read' access denied for /home/erich/.racket/racket-prefs.rktd
11:01 offby1 rolls eyes
11:01 JohnnyL: thats a pretty smart bot!
11:02 asumu: (you can init a REPL with a language... racket -I typed/racket for example)
11:02 JohnnyL: oh ok, thanks asumu.
11:04 asumu: JohnnyL: But with slideshow experimenting in the REPL won't be very interesting because you can't see what you're doing. Better to use DrRacket.
11:04 asumu: Since it'll let you run the presentation.
11:04 JohnnyL: lok
11:04 JohnnyL: ok
11:09 (join) Shvillr_
11:09 (quit) Shviller: Disconnected by services
11:09 (nick) Shvillr_ -> Shviller
11:09 (join) Skola
11:12 JohnnyL: what's holding behind racket? it seems pretty awesome!
11:13 ozzloy: asumu, if you play with slideshow, will rudybot display it on some vm somewhere?
11:13 chandler: "holding behind"?
11:14 asumu: ozzloy: AFAIK, it won't, but that would be neat.
11:14 offby1: ozzloy: nope
11:14 jamessan: I think he means "holding back adoption"
11:15 (join) bluezenix
11:16 JohnnyL: yes
11:16 (quit) Skola: Quit: Lost terminal
11:17 asumu: Languages get popular by luck, so it's hard to tell.
11:19 (quit) bluezenix: Client Quit
11:20 (quit) yoklov: Quit: computer sleeping
11:32 JohnnyL: do you have to pay to increase the memory limit or other features?
11:33 asumu: JohnnyL: Err, for Racket? You can turn off DrRacket's memory limit.
11:33 JohnnyL: yes
11:33 JohnnyL: ok
11:33 JohnnyL: thanks
11:34 asumu: And it's free software (in every sense).
11:34 bremner: if you pay me enough, I will press the buttons in DrRacket.
11:37 bremner: but seriously, does the memory limit only controls when garbage collection happens, or does it make some absolute limit on memory use?
11:37 jamessan: the latter, iirc
11:45 (quit) offby1: Remote host closed the connection
11:46 (join) offby1
11:46 (quit) offby1: Changing host
11:46 (join) offby1
11:49 (join) yoklov
12:08 (join) bluezenix
12:09 (quit) rudybot: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
12:11 (join) asdfhjkl
12:12 (quit) jeapostrophe: Read error: Operation timed out
12:13 (join) rudybot
12:28 (join) rotty
12:29 rotty: hmm, is it at all possible in Racket (without going thru the FFI) to launch a subprocess with a specific set of environment variables?
12:30 rotty: one could probably fake support for that by temporarily changing the parent's environment, but this certainly isn't a very clean solution...
12:39 asumu: rudybot: ^ doc putenv
12:39 rudybot: asumu: I have to read the doc more carefully ...
12:39 asumu: rudybot: doc putenv
12:39 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
12:39 rudybot: asumu: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/runtime.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._putenv))
12:39 asumu: rotty: ^
12:39 asumu: Maybe that? Or is that the unclean solution?
12:53 JohnnyL: thankshow does one use multicores under racket?
12:55 JohnnyL: how does one use multicores under racket?
12:56 jonrafkind: use the "places" library
13:01 (join) yoklov_
13:03 JohnnyL: k
13:04 (quit) yoklov: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
13:14 JohnnyL: hm my sonar deletes my compiled raco racket exe.
13:19 (quit) yoklov_: Quit: bye!
13:20 bremner: sonar?
13:24 JohnnyL: norton
13:24 JohnnyL: it deletes the file if I run it.
13:25 bremner: ah, windows.
13:25 JohnnyL: highly suspicious activity when i run the raco exe.
13:25 chandler: Sounds like another good reason not to use Norton.
13:25 JohnnyL: chandler, what reason is that?
13:25 bremner: it's deleting random files?
13:25 JohnnyL: uh, no it's deleting files with suspicious activity.
13:26 JohnnyL: This has never happened before in my several years of using it.
13:26 bremner: seriously?
13:26 JohnnyL: except of course if there is a virus.
13:27 bremner: I see. well, anything is possible. Are there some checksums you can verify?
13:27 chandler: JohnnyL: Have you used other compilers that produce executables?
13:29 (join) Technodrome
13:30 JohnnyL: chandler: yes.
13:30 JohnnyL: vc
13:31 Technodrome: the web stuff iin racket seems "ok" so far
13:31 rotty: asumu: yea, that's the unclean solution -- what I really would want is a way to specify the environment of the subprocess, without affecting the parents environment
13:31 chandler: JohnnyL: Perhaps they hard-coded an exception for that. In any event, I'm using MSE and I haven't had any such issues, so it seems like this is specific to Norton.
13:32 JohnnyL: 'print' doesn't work in the exe
13:33 JohnnyL: god i must be spoiled expecting simple things to work.
13:35 Technodrome: using scheme on the web is a bit of a challenge I must say
13:37 asumu: Technodrome: Anything in particular challenging?
13:37 Technodrome: well it seems like racket web server stuff is the best foot forward so far in scheme
13:37 Technodrome: chicken scheme has a litle as well but i think racket is a better place to be
13:37 chandler: JohnnyL: Again, works fine here.
13:37 asumu: Oh, you meant Scheme in general? I see.
13:38 chandler: JohnnyL: How are you running the resulting exe?
13:38 JohnnyL: chandler: excluding it from my delete list and running from the command prompt
13:39 chandler: Are you using the regular command prompt or PowerShell?
13:39 JohnnyL: http://pastie.org/3520346
13:39 JohnnyL: rgp
13:39 JohnnyL: that is
13:39 (quit) rudybot: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
13:39 JohnnyL: regular command prompt
13:40 chandler: That program doesn't print or do anything unless "main" is called somewhere.
13:40 JohnnyL: http://pastie.org/3520357
13:41 chandler: Right. Your program does exactly what I'd expect it to.
13:41 chandler: Try adding (main) at the end of the file.
13:42 JohnnyL: works
13:42 JohnnyL: yeah
13:42 JohnnyL: when you said it didn't run main.. gotcha
13:42 JohnnyL: still ahve to remove it from norton's sonar.
13:43 JohnnyL: What extrenuous win32 aps is this thing calling to get such a high priority response from norton?
13:43 JohnnyL: I was planning on using racket for bin distribution, but as it stands now , that's not going to be 'fun'.
13:45 (join) rudybot
13:45 chandler: The Racket tools themselves are generated by Racket, so clearly Norton isn't deleting every executable created by Racket.
13:45 chandler: I'm guessing it's deleting new executables created by tools on the system, and they've hardcoded an exception for Visual Studio.
13:46 chandler: Does it say that the executable it's deleting matches a definition, or give any other reason for deleting it?
13:47 (join) dyoo
13:51 (join) duomo
13:52 JohnnyL: chandler: hold on
13:53 (quit) em: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
13:54 JohnnyL: hm, when you allow the exe back from quaraunteen it appears to work every time. even if you compile a new one with the same contents. if you change the source, it will quaraunteen it.
13:57 JohnnyL: here is all it reports: http://pastie.org/3520469
14:00 (quit) dyoo: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
14:01 chandler: Well, there's a 28 page thread on the Norton forums complaining about this behavior with regards to other compilers.
14:03 chandler: Given Norton's responses asking for information about the compilers that have issues with SONAR, they must be hardcoding an exception list.
14:05 chandler: So this isn't Racket's fault. Norton appears to be deliberately deleting newly created executables, with a specific list of exceptions that doesn't include Racket. I suggest you find an antivirus that isn't so hostile to less-popular compilers.
14:05 jamessan: crowd sourcing which binaries are malicious is an interesting idea, as long as you're not a developer
14:05 bremner: in fact, developing software on windows _is_ suspicious
14:05 chandler: http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Internet-Security-Norton/SONAR-is-deleting-programs/td-p/160660/page/8 for reference
14:05 bremner hides
14:05 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/89v9kky
14:06 Technodrome: hmm …..do any sites run on racket that anyone knows of?
14:06 chandler: jamessan: IE does something similar already with its SmartScreen filter, but it just makes you jump through an extra hoop to run the downloaded program rather than deleting it automatically.
14:07 chandler: bremner: Perhaps he's using a PC and wants to use an OS that actually works on it.
14:07 jamessan: Debian works great on all the PCs I have *shrug*
14:08 bremner: chandler: actually, I just meant a very small fraction of windows users develop software. So the collateral damage is small. But if you want to play "your OS sucks", we can ;)
14:08 (join) samth
14:08 chandler: I was being tongue in cheek too.
14:09 chandler has been fighting with Ubuntu on a plain-vanilla Sandy Bridge ThinkPad for the past six months.
14:09 bremner: ah, which one, so I don't buy it?
14:09 asumu: Technodrome: In a sense, Hacker News. Though that's hosted on Arc, which is built on Racket.
14:10 asumu: There was one that was posted to the mailing list a month or two ago, but I can't remember it off the top of my head.
14:10 (quit) gridaphobe: Remote host closed the connection
14:11 chandler: bremner: It's a T420. But as near as I can tell, my problems aren't unique; the open source drivers for X just don't seem to work very well these days.
14:11 Technodrome: asumu:  people being lazy and still just using PHP :)
14:13 asumu: Technodrome: :) Also, there are other websites we don't know about because for business reasons the consultants can't/don't say.
14:13 chandler: I eventually ended up using the oneiric kernel even though I'm running natty. It works, sort of, though anything using GL still causes random freezes, DisplayPort doesn't work most of the time, and power saving bugs mean I get about 1/2 the battery life I would be getting under Windows.
14:15 bremner sometimes wishes he wasn't addicted to the little red pointer
14:15 Technodrome: asumu:  yea but you know
14:17 chandler: Oh, the hardware's very nice. I just wish I could do what I needed to do under Windows or OS X instead.
14:17 bremner: ah, I don't have that wish.
14:17 JohnnyL: i have vs2010 and i haven't had an issue.
14:18 chandler: Right. That's because Norton hardcoded an exception for VS2010.
14:19 chandler: Do the instructions at http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Internet-Security-Norton/SONAR-is-deleting-programs/m-p/192631?view=by_date_ascending#M96285 help?
14:19 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7t4ouw4
14:20 eli: rotty: The environment variable thing could use a bunch of improvements...  (And for now, setting them explicitly is probably the best option; either that, or run the process via `env'.)
14:24 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
14:53 (join) dnolen
15:02 (join) mithos28
15:13 (join) bluezenix
15:25 (quit) jrslepak: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
15:25 (join) yukon
15:25 (join) MayDaniel
15:26 (nick) yukon -> Guest13005
15:28 Guest13005: Is there a man in the world who understands this rubbish: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/syntax-model.html#(part._expansion)
15:28 Guest13005: ????
15:28 Guest13005: worst documentation ever seen!
15:28 Guest13005: unreadable!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:28 Guest13005: catastrofic!
15:30 (join) jrslepak
15:35 bremner: Guest13005: yes, people who know want to help you now. Well done.
15:35 Guest13005: well done?
15:36 bremner: I'm just not sure you have the ideal strategy for getting help.
15:37 Guest13005: I'm trying to understand expansion and phases, but from above link i unfortunately don't undestand anything
15:37 jonrafkind: Guest13005, did you see my email to the list about phases
15:37 samth: Guest13005, that's the reference documentation, not a tutorial
15:38 jonrafkind: yes, why would you expect documentation to explain anything.. what an absurd notion..
15:38 Guest13005: jon, are you kidding?
15:38 jonrafkind: that last statement was sarcasm
15:38 jonrafkind: but there is such an email about phases
15:39 jonrafkind: https://groups.google.com/group/racket-users/browse_thread/thread/dcd257181e0eb5a7 if it helps at all
15:39 Guest13005: mail, where?
15:39 Guest13005: i'll take a look, thanks
15:39 samth: jonrafkind, you wouldn't look at the c++ reference manual for how to learn about templates
15:39 Guest13005: oh, I see that you had a problem with understanding official "documentation" too
15:39 (join) rudybot_
15:39 jonrafkind: i would not make that assumption up front
15:39 Guest13005: no wonder
15:41 Guest13005: samt, not defend indefensible!!!
15:41 Guest13005: racket documentation is, on large scale, peace of s**t!
15:42 Guest13005: everybody knows that!
15:42 jonrafkind: well its not always enlightening to people who aren't already familiar with racket
15:42 jonrafkind: the technical content is quite accurate though
15:42 (quit) rudybot: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
15:43 jamessan: there's a difference between reference manuals and user manuals (guide, tutorials, etc.)
15:43 (quit) duomo: Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com
15:43 samth: Guest13005, do you actually want help?
15:43 mithos28: I think I understand phases, and it is after reading that document. I wouldn't say that I got it on the first read through, but I wouldn't say that about most complicated topics.
15:44 samth: or do you just want to make people angry?
15:44 jonrafkind: that is like claiming that there is a difference between even and odd version numbers, odd is beta and even is stable. while that may be true not every user knows this and admonishing them for not knowing such a thing is indefensible
15:44 Guest13005: of course i want help, i'm reading jon's mail right now
15:44 bremner: nobody is admonishing.
15:44 jonrafkind: the gist seems to be that complaining that the reference manual isn't helpful is a user error
15:45 Guest13005: That's right, man! Well said!
15:46 mithos28: jonrafkind: there is the difference between constructive criticism and attacking the people who write the documentation
15:47 jonrafkind: ok, but then theres ignoring people who have a legitamite point about the documentation but make that point using offensive language
15:47 Guest13005: i enjoy doing that, because everyone else obviously think that documentation is great! :)
15:47 mithos28: If Guest13005 is the same as the other Guest***** that have posted on irc lately, then there is a large history of comments like the previous ones
15:47 jonrafkind: i am also sensitive to words but I can see a point when there is one
15:47 Guest13005: mithos: I'm racketnoob
15:47 Guest13005: and I'm proud of that!
15:48 jamessan: Guest13005: all your hostility does is make people less likely to help you
15:48 Guest13005: HAHAHAHA
15:48 mithos28: Guest13005: is there a reason that you don't use a consistent handle then?
15:48 jamessan: if you provide constructive criticism, then you're more likely to actually have things improved
15:48 jonrafkind: Guest13005, you told me you read that email earlier anyway..
15:48 Guest13005: no, there is no reason beside of pure lazyness
15:49 mithos28: I do agree that the phases documentation is hard to read, but I don't know how to make it better. I assumed that it was because it was a complicated concept, just like understudying macros for the first time.
15:50 Guest13005: mithos, have you read K. Dybvig's book on scheme?
15:50 Guest13005: clear and mice book
15:50 Guest13005: nice
15:50 (quit) cdidd: Remote host closed the connection
15:51 Guest13005: there is no such book for racket
15:51 Guest13005: and this is not coincidence
15:52 mithos28: no, but looking at the table of contents it doesn't seem to cover what I think are the interesting parts that the racket documentation does
15:52 Guest13005: exactly, mithos
15:53 mithos28: I don't understand, you don't want exact, detailed documentation on every bit of the language? You want something more like the guide?
15:53 Guest13005: but if Dybvig had written Racket documentation, then probably people would not complain
15:53 Guest13005: because Dybvig know how to write good doc
15:55 Guest13005: PLT but clique unfortunately have no idea about it, and that's the main reason why racket is not more popular (it could be, but whit such documentation, hardly ever can!)
15:56 mithos28: I'm not following your point, reading Dybvigs documentation on macros it seems very similar to the racket documentation
15:56 Guest13005: ok, that's your opinion
15:57 Guest13005: i thinkdybvig's doc is much clearer and better written
15:57 mithos28: can you point me to a specific point where you think that is true?
15:57 Guest13005: no i can't: I can point you to whole book :)
15:58 mithos28: So you are saying that every single definition in Dybvig is clearer than the corresponding one in the racket documentation?
15:58 mithos28: I find that hard to believe
15:58 Guest13005: Yes! :)
15:59 mithos28: look at cons
16:00 mithos28: I would argue that racket documentation is cleaner, because it does not refer to the elements of the pair as the car and cdr
16:00 Guest13005: unimportant
16:01 Guest13005: car and cdr has always been basic lisp concepts
16:01 mithos28: which you would not understand before learning about them
16:02 Guest13005: I have learned lisp (i.e. scheme) from that book
16:02 mithos28: you are saying that it is clearer to refer to the first element of a pair as the car of the pair?
16:02 Guest13005: but Racket doc is unreadable to me
16:02 Guest13005: I'm saying that name is not that important, but good description in book is
16:03 mithos28: eli: I thought you were against banning him, or is kicking fine?
16:04 eli: I intentionally kept it to just a kick.
16:04 (join) fftb
16:04 mithos28: ah
16:04 eli: (But a ban won't help anyway, since he's not using a single ip.)
16:04 mithos28: does anyone nowadays?
16:04 eli: In any case, I thought that last time he'd actually listen, obviously not, so I give up.
16:05 eli: (I do...)
16:05 samth does too
16:05 samth: at least at work
16:05 chandler: I run my IRC client in a screen session on a server that always has the same IP.
16:06 bremner: Let's ban chandler, because we can!
16:06 bremner: ;)
16:06 mithos28: Ah, I assumed most people connected through residential connections
16:06 mithos28: which are usually dynamic afaik
16:07 chandler: Also, a lot of people use a host mask which is linked to their identified nick.
16:07 chandler: Trolls don't tend to do that, for obvious reasons...
16:10 eli: mithos28: Home networks in the US tend to be very static...
16:11 eli: I've had a concast line since ~2003, and my IP changed just twice, IIRC.
16:11 mithos28: ok, I just assumed since they could change, that they did
16:11 eli: s/concast/comcast/ but it can just as well stay with an n.
16:16 (join) jeapostrophe
16:17 (nick) sethAway -> seth_
16:17 (nick) seth_ -> sethalves
16:21 (quit) asdfhjkl: Quit: Leaving
16:21 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer
16:23 (part) Technodrome
16:24 (join) Aune
16:24 (part) Aune: "L?mnar"
16:25 JohnnyL: what if you distribute binaries on windows? does it delete it too?
16:25 jamessan: what is "it"?
16:26 JohnnyL: jamessan: raco produced binaries.
16:26 jamessan: and the other "it" you refer to is that Norton product?
16:27 JohnnyL: yes, or antivirus software in general.
16:27 JohnnyL: windows platforms seems 'fresh' in these parts.
16:27 JohnnyL: jamessan: are you using windows too?
16:27 jamessan: if so, I have no clue how it decides what to delete and what not.  I personally haven't used anti-virus software in years unless I was forced to
16:30 JohnnyL: you let people force you to do stuff you don't like?
16:30 jamessan: I don't have control over the base software installed on my work computer
16:30 jamessan: so, in that sense, yes
16:31 JohnnyL: then rally man... OWS!
16:31 jamessan: and that's the only Windows computer I use
16:32 JohnnyL: well i'm wanting to build a distributed system, and i'd like to use html as the front end while harnessing my users pc cpus.
16:33 chandler: JohnnyL: I'm having no trouble with MSE. I have no clue what other antivirus programs do.
16:36 (join) Kaylin
16:42 eli: jeapostrophe: ping
16:42 Kaylin pongs loudly.
16:45 JohnnyL: chandler: my question is, if I distribute (via msiexe or whatever), do I have to worry about norton's sonar like checker?
16:45 JohnnyL: I am thinking perhaps there is a way I can make an entry in the registry. But clueless ...
16:45 chandler: It looks like anyone who distributes software will have to worry about such things. Norton mentions that code-signed executables don't trigger as severe a response, so you may want to look into signing your program.
16:46 cky: Curious minds want to know: Currently in Racket, shuffle is implemented by sorting the given list with random keys. Is there a reason why this approach is used instead of the more straightforward Fisher-Yates shuffle? It seems both cases involve copying the list to a vector, doing its thing, and copying back. (At least if I understood sort's internals correctly.)
16:47 JohnnyL: chandler: ok thanks.
16:47 cky: Sorting is at best O(n log n); Fisher-Yates shuffle is O(n).
16:47 JohnnyL: btw, any way to make the executable smaller? 4 megs for hello world is a bit silly.
16:49 chandler: Use #lang racket/base instead of #lang racket in your modules, and import specific racket/foo libraries as necessary. That should help reduce size, though it'll still always be larger than something produced by Visual C++.
16:49 eli: cky: It's not intended to be used in cases where you care about the runtime, but if you really want to go to such levels, there was a discussion at some point about getting even probabilities for all possible results, and the conclusion was that the random decorate-sort-undecorate works best.
16:49 eli: (I just remember that conclusion, the details of such things are not something I'm interested in...)
16:50 eli: And it just happens that in terms of code, the current thing is trivial.
16:50 cky: eli: I see. I understand that rationale quite well, and I also know how to work around that unevenness even for a Fisher-Yates shuffle.
16:50 cky: But, fair enough about trivial.
16:50 cky: I might make a Fisher-Yates shuffle (accounting for the unevenness, yes) my first PLaneT module. ;-)
16:51 JohnnyL: chandler: thank you! :)
16:51 cky: Which can be used by parties who do want a O(n) shuffle.
16:55 eli: cky: I have some code to randomize lines, which I think uses that or some modification for reasons that I don't remember.
16:55 cky: Cool, so I guess you can extract that out into a module if you haven't already.
16:56 cky: (More just trying to gauge if I'm duplicating work by making such a module myself. :-))
17:00 eli: cky: Email?
17:01 cky: eli: Sure. cky944@gmail.com
17:03 eli: cky: Sent.
17:06 cky: Cool. Interesting approach about using a ring, which I presume is a shrinkable-without-copying vector.
17:06 cky: (Well, logically shrinking, anyway. The vector isn't physically shrunk, of course.)
17:10 cky: Related: http://stackoverflow.com/a/4565055/13, just another case of "nothing new under the sun".
17:16 (quit) jeapostrophe: Read error: Operation timed out
17:22 (quit) fftb: Remote host closed the connection
17:36 (join) asdfhjkl
17:41 (join) duomo
17:46 (quit) Kaylin: Read error: Connection reset by peer
17:46 (join) nilyaK
17:53 (quit) nilyaK: Quit: Leaving.
17:59 (quit) chromati`: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
18:00 (join) anRch
18:14 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
18:18 (join) anRch
18:28 (join) gridaphobe
18:29 (nick) rudybot_ -> rudybot
18:43 (quit) samth: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
18:53 (quit) dzhus: Remote host closed the connection
19:02 (quit) mceier: Quit: leaving
19:07 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
19:07 (join) samth
19:28 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
19:51 (join) francisl
19:59 JohnnyL: racket rocks!
19:59 offby1: rocket racks.
19:59 samth: JohnnyL, glad you're enjoynig it
19:59 offby1: for easier launching and storage.
19:59 samth: *enjoying it
20:04 eli: (Somehow, this feels like the perfect pun for offby1...)
20:05 offby1: isn't "enjoined" some sorta legal term?
20:05 eli: offby1: Actually looks like a popular term for fireworks people.
20:05 offby1 's pun-fu is but weak
20:06 eli highly disagrees.
20:06 eli: (There's also http://www.rocket-rack.com/ which is completely unrelated.)
20:06 offby1 thinks of Herbie Hancock
20:07 (join) RPR
20:10 RPR: samth On typecheck independence of Index <-> Fixnum.  i.e. I want to use Index types and preform efficient Fixnum ops on them.  fx+, fx- etc.  Realistically is it common for an Racket O/S impl to have the size of Index exceed Fixnum?
20:10 samth: no, index is gauaranteed to be smaller than fixnum
20:11 RPR: According to the typechecker?
20:11 samth: If you use index types, the typechecker can often insert fixnum ops for you
20:11 samth: yes, the typechecker knows this about index/fixnum
20:11 samth: index is basically a concept we created for the typechecker
20:11 RPR: Should (fx+ 1 idx) work?  if idx : Index
20:12 RPR: It fails for me.
20:13 RPR: From the doc, "For the latter two families, the sets of values included in the types are architecture-dependent, but typechecking is architecture-independent."
20:16 samth: yes, it should work
20:17 samth: RPR, you shouldn't need to use fx+
20:18 samth: fx+ is *slower* in untyped code, b/c it does checking
20:18 samth: and typed code will insert the optimizations for you
20:18 RPR: Then what?  add1 types to -> Integer.  Just us +
20:18 RPR: Should I just use '+' then.
20:19 samth: yes
20:19 samth: just use +
20:19 RPR: OK, it all makes sense.  I tended to use the add1 method on index vars.
20:20 samth: RPR, it can figure out that (add1 Index) is a Fixnum
20:20 samth: -> (add1 (ann 7 Index))
20:21 samth: - : Integer [generalized from Positive-Fixnum]
20:21 RPR: hmmm
20:22 RPR: Right but the returned type is of Integer and no longer a Fixnum.
20:22 samth: no, it isn't
20:22 samth: the type of add1 is quite complicated, and the whole thing isn't printed at the repl
20:22 RPR: OK
20:23 samth: but that's producing a Positive-Fixnum
20:23 samth: and showing you "Integer" for simplicity
20:23 RPR: Got it. Thx.
20:28 (join) vkz
20:35 (quit) masm: Quit: Leaving.
20:52 (join) oneirophren
20:58 (join) jeapostrophe
20:58 jeapostrophe: eli: you pinged?
20:58 eli: jeapostrophe: Sent an email.  (re the pull request)
20:59 eli wonders if that should be "panged"
20:59 offby1: Thou didst ping
20:59 jeapostrophe: eli: that looks fine, i won't be able to get to it until tomorrow afternoon, so you can merge if you'd like
21:00 jeapostrophe: eli: actually, he added no tests, so if you merge it, i'll go in and add tests afterwards
21:00 eli: jeapostrophe: OK, so I should merge it then?
21:01 jeapostrophe: sure
21:01 eli: ok.
21:07 (join) EmmanuelOga
21:19 (join) kvda
21:29 (quit) jeapostrophe: Read error: Operation timed out
21:55 (quit) asdfhjkl: Quit: Leaving
22:03 (join) nilyaK
22:26 (join) emma
22:28 (quit) rudybot: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
22:29 (quit) offby1: Read error: Connection reset by peer
22:30 (join) offby1
22:30 (join) rudybot
22:31 (quit) offby1: Changing host
22:31 (join) offby1
22:59 (quit) emma: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
23:16 (quit) vkz: Quit: vkz
23:26 (quit) samth: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
23:42 (join) emma_
23:45 (nick) emma_ -> emma