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07:11 osa1: which emacs modes are you using for racket? I'm using quack but it has serious problems with colorschemes, it doesn't color racket syntax based on colorscheme I'm using in emacs, here you can see difference from common lisp syntax coloring and racket: http://i.imgur.com/0YYVu.png
07:15 (quit) Sicp: Quit: Leaving
07:15 neilv: 1. quack predates colorschemes. 2. quack was trying to mimic drscheme. 3. you can customize the faces that quack uses. 4. i don't know why your parens are not colored red like your square brackets. 5. there is a new racket mode in the works
07:16 neilv: http://www.neilvandyke.org/weblog/2011/06/#2011-06-20
07:16 neilv: meow doesn't use colorschemes either
07:19 bremner: osa1: I use geiser, but I have no idea about colorschemes.
07:20 bremner: I _guess_ they work, but I use Xresources to set colors, so I don't really know.
07:21 osa1: neilv: can we try this new mode?
07:21 neilv: not yet. it is on the back burner
07:21 neilv: i will look into colorschemes for it, but not before the initial release
07:23 osa1: neilv: so what are you racket developers using?
07:24 neilv: drracket, quack, and some people are using geiser
07:24 neilv: i think some people use vim too
07:25 osa1: ok, I'll try.
07:25 osa1: geiser
07:25 neilv: last i checked, geiser people used quack for syntax coloring
07:25 osa1: I'm planing using Racket for some web projects, do we have any web frameworks or servers in racket other than the server coming with default racket installation?
07:26 neilv: http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-scgi/
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11:43 stamourv: ozzloy: Fair.
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12:05 Sicp: the bug still lives... http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view&pr=12553
12:05 Sicp: I tried to reinstall, meh
12:06 stamourv: Sicp: You're getting DrRacket from the arch repos, right?
12:07 Sicp: yea
12:07 stamourv: Could you try with the installers from racket-lang.org?
12:07 stamourv: If that works, then it's probably a problem with arch's packaging.
12:07 chandler: stamourv: Did you respond to samth's questions?
12:08 Sicp: alright
12:08 stamourv: chandler: Which question?
12:08 Sicp: there's binaries only for Fedora and Ubuntu
12:09 Sicp: strange, would've thought these guys favored Arch and others
12:09 chandler: stamourv: Whoops. That was supposed to be addressed to Sicp
12:09 Sicp: yes I did chandler
12:09 stamourv: Sicp: The ubuntu installer can work on any distro, it's not a deb.
12:09 Sicp: oh, ok
12:09 stamourv: Just run the script.
12:10 bremner: aren't there shared library issues?
12:10 Sicp: ok it's downloading
12:10 stamourv: But I agree, it could be advertized as being linux, not just ubuntu.
12:10 Sicp: if this fixes it, Arch is going to hear about this..
12:10 chandler: bremner: Not so much these days. Used to be much more of an issue.
12:10 Sicp: but I remember a certain employee at LXF that uses Arch and does Racket
12:10 Sicp: and I saw DrRacket in a screenshot of his not too long ago
12:11 Sicp: maybe he was wiser than to get it through the repos
12:11 chandler: Or maybe it's a combination of your environment and the package not working correctly. What is it actually doing? Segfaulting?
12:12 chandler uses Racket and Arch on a server, but not drracket.
12:12 Sicp: does this "GLib-GObject: g_signal_connect_data: assertion `G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed
12:12 Sicp: "
12:12 Sicp: dumps 50 of those on the command line
12:12 chandler: I get those, but it doesn't actually crash.
12:13 chandler: So I don't think that's actually related.
12:13 chandler: Does it segfault?
12:13 Sicp: I don't see that word anywhere, no
12:13 Sicp: that's all I know about segfaults
12:14 chandler: You wouldn't see the word "segfault".
12:14 Sicp: then how would I know if it did?
12:14 Sicp: SIGSEGV MAPERR si_code 1 fault on addr 0x28
12:14 Sicp: that's a segfault
12:14 Sicp: yea
12:15 Sicp: that's the last line in the above dump
12:15 chandler: Yeah, that's what you'd see.
12:16 chandler: Is this 32-bit or 64-bit?
12:16 Sicp: 32
12:20 Sicp: FUCK!
12:20 Sicp: it does the same thing even from the installer
12:20 Sicp: it's DrRacket's fault.
12:20 chandler: ok, so (a) it's a racket bug (b) it's probably an interaction with something in your environment
12:20 chandler: possibly a font you have installed
12:21 Sicp: that gets triggered for Preferences?
12:21 Sicp: what about permissions in racket's config files?
12:21 asumu: Sicp: Isn't your machine a 64-bit CPU?
12:21 asumu: (from your bug report)
12:22 Sicp: yes
12:22 asumu: But you're running 32-bit Arch?
12:22 Sicp: yes
12:22 chandler: the opening pane of Preferences is Font, so a font issue seems like a good first thing to investigate
12:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1znYmQ
12:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Clean up compiled test files to force recompiling. - Vincent St-Amour
12:22 chandler: asumu: I use a 32-bit OS on a few 64-bit capable machines too. There's nothing wrong with doing so, especially if you don't have more than 4GB of RAM.
12:23 stamourv: Memory saved by shorter pointers alone can make it worth it.
12:24 asumu: Fair enough. Though that's why I have 12GB. :p
12:24 bremner: I wonder if the racket VM could support compressed references.
12:24 stamourv: bremner: Compresed references?
12:24 asumu: Sicp: What version of GTK do you have installed? I wonder if it's a bad interaction with that.
12:24 Sicp: well I never manually installed any fonts
12:25 Sicp: this is a bare arch installation
12:25 bremner: stamourv: assume all references have sufficiently high alignment, then shift them down into 32 bits
12:25 bremner: apparently it is a bit win for 64 bit java virtual machines.
12:26 stamourv: Not sure how well that would work with the existing object representation.
12:26 bremner: yeah, I'm utterly ignorant of the internals.
12:26 chandler: asumu: I can't put 12GB in my little Core 2 Solo netbook. :-)
12:26 Sicp: I have gtk-engines 2.20.2-2
12:26 stamourv: But if you design your representation around it, I can believe that the wins would be great.
12:26 asumu: chandler: Yeah my laptop only has 2GB...
12:26 chandler: Sicp: Doesn't using Arch mean you manually installed *all* your fonts?
12:27 Sicp: no
12:27 Sicp: I have not done that
12:27 asumu: Sicp: Also, has the preferences always been broken for you? No chance of an old preferences file screwing things up?
12:27 Sicp: nope
12:27 Sicp: since day 1
12:27 Sicp: ctrl + ; or Edit > Preferences
12:27 Sicp: same
12:28 Sicp: listen, of course it's not from DrRacket
12:28 Sicp: because the installer from the website cannot possibly have such a bug
12:28 Sicp: my friend uses it, you all use it
12:28 Sicp: having it crash from the site installer ENSURES that it's from me
12:29 stamourv: Could you try deleting (or moving, if you want to back it up) your ~/.racket directory?
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12:30 Sicp: well there is no point backing it up, since there is nothing configured :P
12:30 Sicp: listen umm..I said "no" when running the installer at the Unix-style installation option
12:30 Sicp: meaning that everything will be in /usr/racket
12:30 Sicp: and it did mention that I can just remove it when I wanted
12:31 Sicp: generating an uninstaller would have happened if I were to choose the first option, as it mentioned
12:31 Sicp: so I'm just going to go ahead and remove it and go back to the DrRacket from the repos, since that's the one that dynamically edits my Applications menu to include the binary
12:31 Sicp: it shouldn't leave any crumbs behind
12:33 Sicp: the beginning interface changed because of the removal of ~/.racket, but it still crashes
12:34 chandler: Sicp: Try removing ~/.fontconfig/ and running it again.
12:34 Sicp: :O
12:34 Sicp: sounds dangerous
12:34 chandler: It's just cache files.
12:34 Sicp: oh
12:35 Sicp: still
12:36 Sicp: can't find anything about "DrRacket" and "crash" on Google
12:36 Sicp: good sign, I guess :P
12:37 asumu: Sicp: So at least one other person reported a crash with the preferences window on Ubuntu.
12:37 Sicp: really
12:37 Sicp: can you link?
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12:37 Sicp: I didn't find anything
12:37 asumu: http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view%20audit-trail&database=default&pr=12212
12:38 asumu: It's hard to reproduce this bug though.
12:38 Sicp: yep, that's the one
12:38 Sicp: how so?
12:38 Sicp: just go to preferences
12:38 chandler: I did that. Works fine for me.
12:38 Sicp: well you're not him..
12:38 Sicp: :p
12:38 chandler: Are you using KDE?
12:38 Sicp: Xfce
12:39 Sicp: think I should try on something like Fluxbox?
12:39 Sicp: because I am NOT going to install KDE for this
12:39 chandler: No, I don't think that would help. I asked because the reported crash on Ubuntu was from a KDE user.
12:40 Sicp: hey there's no more of that big dump I posted above
12:40 Sicp: only this now " SIGSEGV MAPERR si_code 1 fault on addr 0x28"
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12:41 Sicp: ah, it does that dump only when I do "drracket &"
12:41 Sicp: because of the instance dying, of course
12:42 asumu: Sicp: Can you try running the following in a REPL? (require framework) (preferences:show-dialog)
12:42 (quit) dous: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
12:42 Sicp: works
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12:43 asumu: Hmmm.
12:43 Sicp: I have worked with GUI before on DrRacket
12:43 Sicp: and a dialog pops up
12:43 Sicp: well, a frame..
12:43 asumu: Well, that's the base of the preferences GUI. So it's not an obvious GUI issue.
12:43 ssbr_: Hi. I'm grading assignments for a course, came across the syntax "((a b) (c e (||) (f h i) g) (()) (d))". Does anyone know what that '||' does? It broke the automarker, but otherwise this appears to be the right answer (the question: produce an S-expression with the following syntax tree: blahblahblah)
12:44 stamourv: ssbr_: That's the empty symbol.
12:44 ssbr_: stamourv: Ah. Alright, thank you.
12:44 ssbr_: I'll mark that as correct then :)
12:45 Sicp: lol
12:48 ssbr_: Well, it makes sense given the exact picture given in the question. Here S-expressions such as (a b ...) are considered to be an n-ary tree with the label a and the children b ... .There's a box with nothing in it. Surely the tree rooted at the empty symbol is more appealing than the non-tree () ?
12:48 ssbr_: This answer is clever :p
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12:49 Sicp: nice
12:50 Sicp: give the guy an A
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13:11 ssbr_: Sicp: it's just question 1. :(   still, high hopes
13:11 Sicp: oh
13:11 Sicp: one of those who start off great
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13:25 Sicp: well, I installed DrRacket on Trisquel and I was able to see preferences
13:25 Sicp: now I see what the available fields are, I can just edit it in the config file and..that's it
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13:28 Sicp: NSFW, but so much win
13:28 Sicp: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19390574/Beautiful-Tattoo-Art-On-Pretty-Girl.jpg
13:31 rapacity: what
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13:31 Sicp: you mean "WAT"?
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14:28 stamourv: Sicp: Please stay on topic.\
14:28 jonrafkind: the internet is serious business
14:28 Sicp: damn straight
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15:23 metadave: Is anyone familiar with the Whalesong code here?
15:23 jonrafkind: dyoo wrote it, sometimes he hangs out here
15:31 metadave: if I wanted to build Whalesong from source with some modifications of my own, how would I go about doing that? I checked out the code, made some modifications, but whenever I build the launcher, it runs the version from Planet.
15:31 metadave: I've also taken a look at "raco planet link ..."
15:31 metadave: Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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16:32 ozzloy: stamourv, i definitely like the order of functions being postfix.  in racket it feels like i'm coding my way out of an onion.  "oh wait, i want to turn the result of that into a string, ok back out a level, wrap that in a *->string" repeat until achieving the desired result
16:33 chandler: in forth, onion codes into you!
16:33 ozzloy: maybe i should just write a reverse polish macro
16:34 ozzloy: i'd still have to wrap expressions, but at least my cursor would be right next to where it needs to be to do that
16:36 ozzloy: chandler, olulz
16:36 chandler: Maybe you just need a reversed version of `compose'.
16:37 ozzloy: chandler, have you read anything about concatenative programming?
16:37 ozzloy: i did just recently and it seemed pretty neat
16:37 chandler: I've done quite a bit of programming in Forth and RPL.
16:37 ozzloy: oic
16:38 ozzloy: so... can you sum it up in 10 words or less?
16:38 ozzloy holds up 10 fingers
16:38 ozzloy: i'm ready to count down
16:39 chandler: 10 words less or than forth summarized can't be in
16:40 ozzloy: hah, nice
16:41 chandler: It's an idea that could benefit from types. I know some people have tried to do that, but I haven't really spent any time looking beyond that.
16:42 ozzloy: chandler, i've noticed in ruby i do method chaining and in racket, the method chaining is reversed.  i'm imagining forth is more like ruby than racket on this point.  is that the case?
16:43 stamourv: Here's a Riastradh quote that I think sums it up nicely:
16:43 stamourv: stack-languages dup work not brain with swap flow-analysis to-read require swap because
16:43 chandler: See, that sentence works just fine for me.
16:44 ozzloy: types are overrated, says i, the final arbiter of such things
16:44 chandler: ozzloy: The typical syntax for object method invocation has a certain amount of postfixness to it, yes.
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16:50 ozzloy: so ... i only just heard about this concept, so i'm not sure if i read that correctly: "stack-languages do not work with brain because stack-languages require flow analysis to-read"?
16:50 ozzloy: flow-analysis*
16:50 chandler: yup.
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16:51 ozzloy: WOO
16:51 stamourv: See, that took flow analysis ;).
16:51 chandler: Typical Forth style keeps word size short - very short - in order to avoid that problem.
16:52 ozzloy: english requires flow analysis too
16:52 ozzloy: i don't see that as an argument for or against a language
16:53 ozzloy: it sure did require analysis though
16:53 chandler: Did you ever use a RPN calculator?
16:53 ozzloy: no
16:53 ozzloy: heard of them
16:54 ozzloy: heard they were used by the COMMUNISTS!!!
16:54 chandler: I wasn't aware that HP was run by communists.
16:55 ozzloy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_polish#Soviet_Union
16:55 stamourv: I'm pretty sure that Reverse-Poland was never communist either.
16:56 chandler: RPN is *much* more strongly associated with HP than with Soviet technology.
16:56 ozzloy: duly noted
16:57 ozzloy: i've only heard of them and read that wiki page about it
16:58 ozzloy: round brackets are kinda like layers of an onion
16:58 ozzloy: with reverse-polish, they'd all stack up at the beginning instead of the end
17:00 stamourv: RPN doesn't usually use parens, because all the operators have fixed arity.
17:02 ozzloy: 0.0
17:02 ozzloy: oh bummer
17:02 stamourv: You could do the same with prefix notation too.
17:02 stamourv: * + 2 3 4 => (* (+ 2 3) 4)
17:02 ozzloy: yeah
17:02 stamourv: If * and + can only take 2 args, that works.
17:03 ozzloy: but i like + and - from racket taking a list
17:03 stamourv: Yep, pretty handy.
17:03 ozzloy: this idea is awesome amazing
17:03 stamourv: But more importantly, this allows stuff like optional arguments, keyword arguments, etc.
17:03 ozzloy: yes, that
17:03 stamourv: Which is one of the first things I end up longing for if I have to program in, say, ML or Haskell.
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17:17 ozzloy: i did some ocaml in the past.  i've drawn on that a lot learning racket
17:17 ozzloy: want to learn haskell too
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18:44 ozzloy: hey, whom do i poke about videos from racket con?
18:46 jonrafkind: samth
18:46 ozzloy: samth, poke re: videos from racket con
18:46 jonrafkind: i think you're gonna need something a little stronger..
18:47 jonrafkind tosses ozzloy a hydrogen bomb
18:47 ozzloy: o my
18:50 ozzloy: i figure every little bit helps
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19:14 samth: ozzloy: i know, i know
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21:47 ale`: can someone give me an example of how to make a scriptable application with racket (a la emacs - I want it to be able to load an init script that should be able to use the functions provided by my app).
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21:59 asumu: ale`: Well, your application can use dynamic-require to load a module that contains your init script.
21:59 asumu: And you can provide the script an API to do whatever it needs to do.
21:59 asumu: You could look at the DrRacket plugin API for an example too.
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22:10 ale`: asumu: thanks, going to take a look. Doing this kind of stuff seems pretty hard compared to common lisp, where I would just (load ..) a file :-/
22:16 asumu: ale`: Well, `load` exists in Racket too.
22:17 asumu: But using modules gets you various benefits like better interaction with macros.
22:17 asumu: see http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/load.html
22:20 ale`: I tried load but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe I should try again tomorrow, it's 4.20am :-)
22:22 ale`: thanks for all the pointers!
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