00:00 asumu: (it's not really predicate dispatch based though)
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00:01 veer: asumu: right , I will think about posting it to list.
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00:03 veer: I did glanced over unstable/generics , I will look into it again , I wrote mine out of curiosity , too see how it works
00:04 veer: too -> to
00:05 eli: veer: If you're interested in an on-line course about plai, see pl.barzilay.org
00:06 eli: An idea that I played with would be to run it throughout a semester on-line too -- which would require some volunteer to do the grading.
00:06 eli: (My course is completely paperless, and I can even do the tests remotely.)
00:07 eli: But I didn't see anyone who would actually commit to going through such a thing (and manages to persist a whole semester) without the sword of an academic grade hanging above them.
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00:12 jamessan probably would have, if not for taking the class in person
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00:16 veer: wow syllabus looks cools , this is what I want , I guess I can do the catch up , might as well start now :)
00:21 eli: veer: You can try, but we're relatively deep into the semester by now...
00:23 eli: And the grader thing is a requirement for having something that works because you'll need feedback, and if the univeristy finds that I'm spending time with people outside (or worse, make the grader do that) without a corresponding cash return, it won't be too happy about it...
00:23 eli: Maybe jamessan could do that...  (He certainly would qualify as a good grader, based on how he did...)
00:23 veer: oh ok , I don't need grades , I'll just follow the syllabus
00:25 jamessan: I have a feeling my day job and compilers course will be keeping me busy :) maybe another term
00:26 eli: jeapostrophe: Heh...
00:27 jeapostrophe: hm?
00:27 veer: just want to be sure : Can I do the HW and view the lectures or it's against the policy
00:27 eli: veer: That's possible to but then you don't get much more than reading a book -- perhas some homeworks with solutions (which I can happily send you).
00:27 eli: jeapostrophe: Bad completion -- it was supposed to be for jamessan.
00:28 veer: right , what I want to do is follow the timeline which is important
00:28 jeapostrophe: Ow, np
00:28 eli: veer: You can certainly do that -- it's there so I can't stop you from doing so.
00:28 eli: As for the solutions, sending them out is not doing real work so that's fine too.
00:28 jeapostrophe: asumu: i wrote that :)
00:28 jeapostrophe: asumu: i think...? maybe it was eli?
00:29 eli: veer: So you can start from the beginning, and email me whenever you finish a homework and I'll send you the solution to compare with.
00:29 eli: If you've tried going through PLAI a few times then it might be possible for you to catch up.
00:30 veer: eli: thanks a lot , I will catch up np
00:30 eli: jeapostrophe: Yeah, I looked at my own code recently (since asumu/samth were talking about it), and the code in unstable/generics is pretty much the same.  But I'm not the one who put it there... so that was probably you.
00:31 jeapostrophe: eli: i think maybe i took what you did and wrote some tests and docs and a few changes or something... i remember us talking about it once
00:31 eli: That sounds likely.
00:32 eli: I remember considering it a hack, with some problems that I wasn't happy with, so you probably got fed up waiting for me and just put it in with the rest.
00:32 eli: veer: eli@barzilay.org if you have any questions etc.  Also, we're using piazza for the course, maybe you'll want to get on it if only to see the questions that students have asked.  (Mail me if so.)
00:37 veer: eli: thanks , I'll do that , created the repo in github for now.
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00:38 eli: veer: A repo for solutions?
00:38 veer: yes
00:39 eli: Oh -- please don't make them public...
00:39 eli: I have a very limited pool of homeworks, and my language names are unique enough that your solutions would be easily googleable.
00:39 veer: eli: ok, I'll make it private , sorry I didn't realize
00:40 eli: Thanks...  (I should have clarified that: this is why the solutions are the only thing that I don't post publicly.)
00:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/lwvYyA
00:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix a bug where retrieving a submission would get appended to the default #lang line. - Eli Barzilay
00:45 eli: bremner: Fixed, finally: http://git.racket-lang.org/plt/commit/fc0fd4b
00:45 eli: bremner: I also have a proper redefinition of `number?', but you're probably not interested in that...
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01:03 ozzloy: i am not a fan of the new logo
01:03 ozzloy: i'm a fan of the lambda character
01:04 ozzloy: i guess the fancy coloring is ok
01:04 ozzloy: kinda cool and hip and 2.0-y
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01:09 gf3: does anyone have any information building a simple parser with read/peek?
01:10 gf3: browsing some planet examples, but they aren't helping
01:10 mithos28: gf3: it is a little different but there is a parser library with racket
01:10 mithos28: rudybot: doc parser-tools
01:10 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
01:10 rudybot: mithos28: not found in any library's documentation: parser-tools
01:11 mithos28: rudybot: doc parser
01:11 rudybot: mithos28: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: parser-tools/yacc
01:11 gf3: mithos28: I saw those but I don't think I need anything that complex yet
01:11 mithos28: are you just building a LL1 parser?
01:11 mithos28: recursive decent style?
01:12 gf3: yes eventually, but I just wanted to get the basics down first
01:13 mithos28: I cannot think of any documentation
01:13 mithos28: But my approach would be to write a tokenizer first
01:14 mithos28: and then work on a recursive decent parser
01:14 mithos28: I'm not sure what you mean by basics though, as I think of a recursive decent parser as one of the most simple ones
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02:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/E1F8CQ
02:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Typos in turtles (code and docs). - Rodolfo Henrique Carvalho
02:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Guide typos - daniel watson
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04:38 jaimef: so racket has readline support. seems like would be more common in other repl's
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06:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/qxzj3g
06:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Allow `get-conf' to be used with any key. - Eli Barzilay
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07:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tAYvmg
07:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] syntax/parse: added experimental template form - Ryan Culpepper
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08:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/erjpAA
08:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust some libraries to avoid converting paths to strings too early - Matthew Flatt
08:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] change `current-write-relative-directory' to support more path conversions - Matthew Flatt
08:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix error-message formatting - Matthew Flatt
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11:32 jonrafkind: if I have an arbitrary pattern in syntax/parse how can I get all the matched syntax? well really I'm using a syntax-class
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12:22 JohnnyL: can you overload functions in Racket?
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12:26 samth_: JohnnyL, that depends on the function
12:26 samth_: some function, like `dict-ref' are set up to support overriding
12:26 samth_: but by default, functions are just functions
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12:29 JohnnyL: samth: how about user defined functions
12:29 JohnnyL: ?
12:29 JohnnyL: and keyword should I look forward to read about this?
12:29 JohnnyL: and *what* keyword should I look forward to read about this?
12:30 JohnnyL: my goal is to not waste alot of time in function reuse. I would like to inherit essentially, preferably with the same name function.
12:31 MarkSoric: Just wondering if some kind people might take a look at this - http://codepad.org/D9vmyGf2 It was an assignment question where we had to implement linked lists in Racket without the use of any built-in list functions. The solution I submitted made use of structures and it worked very nicely. This was my first attempt that used pure lambda representation of abstract lists.
12:32 MarkSoric: I submitted this to the testing server and it failed, I think due to the iappend function taking too long. My question is this: is it possible to create a "back cons" type of function that will consume two lists and do the following:
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12:32 MarkSoric: Take the first element of list1 and cons it to list2. Then, take the second element of list2 and put it in between the first element of the mutated list2 and the rest of list2.
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12:33 MarkSoric: Reversing and consign gets me there in O(2n) where n is the length of the first list, I'm wondering if I can do it in O(n).
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12:44 samth: JohnnyL: see http://docs.racket-lang.org/unstable/Generics.html
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12:50 JohnnyL: samth: wow, thats pretty hard to read for a newbie.
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12:51 samth: JohnnyL: defining overloaded functions is probably not the right thing for a newbie
12:51 JohnnyL: I suppose my goal is to accept different types of function parameters using the same name. or reusing inherited.
12:51 samth: JohnnyL: do you have something specific in mind?
12:52 MarkSoric: Can anyone suggest a method for reversing a list without using append?
12:57 JohnnyL: samth: yes, for instance take a equal operator, make it a functoin in Racket then make a functoin that accepts parameters which are structures. the overloaded functions that check the equivalences of all the parts of the structure. I want to make this for many different types of structures, but the structures are different in many respects, mostly in structure and depth (think hierarchical).
12:57 JohnnyL: I hope I am explaining this correctly.
12:59 samth: JohnnyL: `equal?' is already overloaded in the way you're describing
12:59 MarkSoric: ? <insert puppy dog eyes emoticon>
12:59 MarkSoric: ?
12:59 samth: MarkSoric: is this for homework?
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13:00 MarkSoric: No. Well, that's not true. It was for homework and it was submitted using structures, I'm trying to see for my own curiosity if I can represent lists on my own with pure lambda as opposed to using structs like I did in the submitted assigment. Deadline for submission was 11:59 this morning, I can provide link if needed.
13:01 samth: MarkSoric: using just lambda is pretty different than "not using append"
13:01 MarkSoric: The method with structures worked for me and I passed all required tests but I'd like to see if I can Lambda the whole thing. So far, everything works except for append
13:01 samth: to avoid using append, try an accumulator
13:02 MarkSoric: Hmm… not sure what you mean. Like use an acc in the append function I'm trying to write, or use it to reverse a list?
13:02 samth: well, either
13:02 MarkSoric: My dilemma is that methods that I know to reverse a list rely on append and methods to append rely on reverse, so I can't figure out how to get them both working together
13:03 samth: MarkSoric: accumulators are the solution in both cases
13:03 MarkSoric: Ok, now what about a back-cons type of function, is that even possible?
13:04 samth: easy to define using either `append' or `reverse'.  :)
13:04 MarkSoric: But then how do I keep track of my position within the list? The ultimate goal is for append to run in exactly O(n), not O(2n) (which I know, is not a big deal, just wondering if it's possible)
13:05 samth: any of these functions can be written in O(n) time
13:05 MarkSoric: I reverse isn't my problem, actually. It's append. I can't figure out for the write an append function for the way I'm representing my list types
13:06 samth: append is easy if you follow the structure of your data
13:07 JohnnyL: samth: equal as it is defined now can handle equivalences between complex and real numbers, embedded in structures.
13:07 samth: right
13:08 JohnnyL: samth: can you please direct me to a page?
13:09 samth: JohnnyL: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/reference/booleans.html?q=equal%3F#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._equal~3f%29%29
13:09 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7qz29gu
13:09 samth: see also: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/reference/booleans.html?q=equal%3F#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._prop~3aequal+hash%29%29
13:09 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7wffluk
13:09 MarkSoric: samth: Can't see how unfortunately :( Bummer. As an aside, is it possible to use pointers in racket?
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13:10 bremner: maybe you want boxes
13:10 MarkSoric: boxes? Tell me of these :P
13:11 bremner: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/boxes.html?q=boxes
13:11 samth: MarkSoric: see this discussion in htdp: http://htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/curriculum-Z-H-1.html#node_toc_node_sec_17.1
13:11 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/73je7vr
13:12 MarkSoric: bremner: Not sure that really helps me though. The whole idea is to implement all the functions and data structures myself.
13:12 samth: MarkSoric: in terms of what?
13:13 MarkSoric: lambdas
13:13 JohnnyL: samth: yes I have been reading those pages.
13:14 JohnnyL: Unfortunately you have to define new symbols to represent
13:14 MarkSoric: I've defined a list as a function that consumes another function that takes as its arguments the elements of the list. I'm trying to do everything as abstractly as I can.
13:14 JohnnyL: the comparisons.
13:14 samth: JohnnyL: I don't understand what you're saying
13:14 samth: MarkSoric: what do pointers have to do with this?
13:15 MarkSoric: Because ideally, I would like to point the end of the first list to the start of the second.
13:15 MarkSoric: and return the list created by doing so.
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13:16 samth: MarkSoric: you really really don't want to confuse mutable lists and implementing lists in terms of functions
13:16 MarkSoric: samth: But aren't lists implemented in scheme at the lowest levels as functions?
13:16 samth: MarkSoric: no
13:16 MarkSoric: So how are they represented then?
13:17 samth: they're implemented as data structures with two fields
13:17 samth: which are accessed by `first'/`rest'
13:18 MarkSoric: I was under the impression that all data structures in scheme were fundamentally equivalent to functions
13:18 samth: MarkSoric: that's not true at all, except in the trivial sense that you can compute anything with just functions
13:18 MarkSoric: samth: So what I'm trying to do is not possible then?
13:19 samth: MarkSoric: no, it's perfectly possible
13:19 samth: well, implementing lists with `append', `reverse', etc as functions
13:19 MarkSoric: I'm just going about it the wrong way then?
13:19 samth: is entirely possible
13:19 samth: MarkSoric: look up "church encoding"
13:20 MarkSoric: okie dokie
13:20 JohnnyL: samth: nevermind I wanted to define an equals that didn't have to have so many temporary symbols/stages from a programmer's perspective.
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13:21 samth: JohnnyL: the reason it's complex is so that it can support overloading
13:21 samth: you can implement something simpler, but less general
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13:28 JohnnyL: samth: agreed it's not at all amicable.
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14:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/WogOkA
14:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix typo. - Vincent St-Amour
14:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Use trusted sandbox for Performance Report. - Vincent St-Amour
14:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Simplify TR log processing and move part of it to Performance Report. - Vincent St-Amour
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16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/Df_79w
16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] make a sandbox test much less likely to fail - Matthew Flatt
16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix race condition in subprocess handling (when places enabled) - Matthew Flatt
16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] change `raco demod' test to write to temporary drectory - Matthew Flatt
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17:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vsrbAw
17:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Make inference understand the relationship between `Vector' and `Vectorof'. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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18:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/6H3ZJQ
18:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add two links to redex docs - Robby Findler
18:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust test suite to match new lack-of-absolute-paths feature - Robby Findler
18:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust runtime errortraces in redex to manipulate namespaces a little more carefully - Robby Findler
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21:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/z3Qehg
21:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added would-be-future - James Swaine
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22:23 flying_rhino: how namespaces work in racket and typed racket?
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22:34 bremner: flying_rhino: do you maybe mean http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/modules.html?q=module
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