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00:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/DtmCfg
00:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added JPEG compression to `compiled-bitmap' and `compiled-bitmap-list' - Neil Toronto
00:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixed plot doc tests - Neil Toronto
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03:44 Mordae: Hi!
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03:45 Mordae: I am missing sha2 functions. If I add them to the collects/openssl/sha.rkt (in local git repo) what's the best way to contribute them to the project?
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03:53 Blkt: good morning everyone
03:54 noelw: hi
03:54 Blkt: :D
03:59 Mordae: Morning.
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04:06 Mordae: bb
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04:26 tim-brown: where is the source to the documentation for "scheme_make_output_port" please?
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05:08 noelw: tim-brown: https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/collects/scribblings/inside/ports.scrbl
05:08 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7r95dpm
05:10 tim-brown: thx noel. I threw a find/grep at it and found it (eventually)
05:15 noelw: (ack has replaced find/grep for me)
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06:05 tim-brown: noelw: could you drop me an URL for ack?
06:06 jamessan: http://betterthangrep.com/
06:06 noelw: that's the one
06:06 jamessan: quite modest :)
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06:22 tim-brown: oooh shiny!
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09:28 traisen: I have non-racket question. What program is used to for irc logging for this channel  - thanks
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10:14 ozzloy: is it just me, or is htdp/2e missing large sections? http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/htdp2e-part4.html
10:14 ozzloy: i saw someone praising it, so i'm hoping there's a more complete version out there somewhere
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10:30 noelw: htdp/2e is still in development, i believe
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10:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/K--MXw
10:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix test to work right with imprecise GC - Matthew Flatt
10:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Rewrite install code in '#%kernel to avoid startup time. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
10:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] update pre-built libraries - Matthew Flatt
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10:50 asumu: ozzloy: It's still a work in progress.
10:52 ozzloy: asumu, noelw, oic
10:54 (nick) samth_away -> samth
10:55 samth: traisen: the logger is gabot, which is written in racket
10:55 samth: Mordae: a pull request on github is probably best
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12:12 asumu: Hmm, anyone used the trace module recently?
12:12 asumu: Is (require trace) at the top of the module not enough to make it work?
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12:17 stamourv: ozzloy: You can use htdp and 2htdp together.
12:18 stamourv: I've seen a class that was using 2htdp for the topics it covered, and fell back to htdp for the rest.
12:19 stamourv: By the time 2htdp runs out, students should be comfortable enough that changing terminology a bit is not too confusing.
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12:19 asumu: Oh, racket/trace was what I wanted probably. dyoo beat me to it. :p
12:20 stamourv: asumu: unstable/debug has some nice goodies too.
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12:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/J9A3Yw
12:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Small typo in 2nd paragraph of scribblings/inside/procedures.html "a" should be "as"; update for "collects/scribblings/inside/ports.scrbl". - Tim Brown
12:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Update collects/scribblings/reference/stx-trans.scrbl - Rodolfo Henrique Carvalho
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15:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/oQ8CyQ
15:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] v5.2.1 stuff - Eli Barzilay
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15:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 97 new commits to stable: http://git.io/gpjgvA
15:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/stable] Alpha version number for the v5.2.1 release - Ryan Culpepper
15:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/stable] New Racket version 5.2.0.900. - Eli Barzilay
15:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/stable] ntoronto is responsible for images. - Eli Barzilay
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15:37 dustmote: in what context would one use "define-values" ?
15:38 ianjneu: when the body evaluates to multiple values.
15:39 dustmote: and you want to unpack them immediate as names, instead of treating them simply as a list?
15:39 ianjneu: right.
15:40 ianjneu: (define-values (full-list final-state) (for/fold ([lst '()] [state 0]) ([itr (in-list something)]) (define-values (item state*) (do-something-that-updates-state itr state)) (values (cons item lst) state*)))
15:40 ianjneu: for example
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15:50 dustmote: ianjneu: i'm having trouble understanding all the parts of that example
15:50 dustmote: what's the 'something' ind the second form within for/fold?
15:50 dustmote: ir*
15:50 dustmote: in***
15:50 stamourv: dustmote: That's the list you're iterating over.
15:51 stamourv: But that's not directly related to the multiple values part.
15:51 stamourv: To give you another example of how multiple values may be used:
15:51 dustmote: that's okay, -- i'm learning
15:51 stamourv: rudybot: doc quotient/remainder
15:51 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
15:51 rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/generic-numbers.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._quotient%2Fremainder))
15:51 stamourv: dustmote: ^
15:52 stamourv: That's a function that returns both the quotient and the remainder of two numbers.
15:52 stamourv: Since it makes sense to compute the two values together, why not return both of them?
15:52 stamourv: rudybot: (define-values (q r) (quotient/remainder 14 5))
15:52 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
15:53 stamourv: rudybot: q
15:53 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 2
15:53 stamourv: rudybot: r
15:53 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: 4
15:54 dustmote: i see
15:55 stamourv: That's a pretty simple example, but that's a pattern that we enounter often/
15:55 stamourv: s@/@.@
15:56 dustmote: the rest of your first example is actually relevant to the code I'm trying to understand; what's the significance of putting the list we are iterating over in ([ ... ]) ? does that say to set the local value itr to the current item in the list?
15:57 stamourv: First, parens and square brackets are equivalent, the latter are used as a matter of convention in some places.
15:57 stamourv: As for the specific syntax, that's `for/fold''s syntax.
15:58 stamourv: When you use it, you specify the sequences (could be lists, vectors, etc.) that you iterate, and the name you want to give to the element you're dealing with at the moment.
15:59 dustmote: so that's the `(for-clause ...)' mentioned in the documentation.
16:00 stamourv: Yep.
16:00 stamourv: At least, the most common kind of `for-clause'.
16:01 stamourv: You can have multi-valued sequence clauses, `#:when' clauses, etc.
16:02 dustmote: ah
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16:04 dustmote: stamourv: this is good. thanks! i might have more questions later..
16:05 stamourv: No problem!
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16:22 dustmote: if you wanted to define a function which returns multple values, would you? (is it bad practice?) and is that the impetus for `values'?
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16:22 stamourv: Returning multiple values is fine.
16:22 samth: dustmote: yes, you would -- it's not bad style
16:23 stamourv: Sometimes, it makes more sense to return a struct, but if the values are not related, multiple value return is cleaner.
16:23 stamourv: It's certainly better than, say, CPSing your code to avoid multiple values.
16:23 stamourv: Seen code like that. It ain't pretty.
16:25 dustmote: i'm sorry, what's CPSing?
16:26 stamourv: Converting to continuation-passing style.
16:26 stamourv: Have you programmed in javascript?
16:26 dustmote: quite a bit, but i haven't ever done anything with continuations in it
16:27 stamourv: In js, you often need to pass callbacks to functions. These callbacks represent the "rest of the computation", basically, what's left to be done after the function you're calling is done.
16:28 stamourv: They're basically continuations.
16:28 dustmote: and then you get callback soup, i see
16:28 stamourv: And since you're passing them around, this is continuation-passing style.
16:29 dustmote: got it
16:29 stamourv: If you do that, you can avoid multiple-value returns. But IMO, the "cure" is much worse than the disease.
16:29 stamourv: Some people prefer the "cure", but they're wrong ;).
16:30 dustmote: in javascript's case (forgetting certain popular libraries) i think many of these callbacks are for delayed actions, such as setTimeout ... in that case it is unavoidable to use this style, is it not?
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16:37 stamourv: Callbacks are perfectly fine in some contexts.
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16:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/8am7qg
16:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Enable Performance Report in typed/racket/base and typed/scheme/base. - Vincent St-Amour
16:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix printing of types in instantiation error messages. - Vincent St-Amour
16:45 dustmote: stamourv: but as for your CPS point, i agree
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17:09 dustmote: What's the typed/racket way to annotate hashes which result from a function? I couldn't find hashes in section 3 or 4 of http://docs.racket-lang.org/ts-guide/
17:10 samth: dustmote: like this:
17:10 samth: #lang typed/racket
17:10 samth: (: h (HashTable Any Any))
17:10 samth: (define h (make-hash))
17:11 dustmote: samth: thanks!
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20:43 felipe_Brz: hi I've just downloaded racket for ubuntu
20:43 offby1: \o/
20:43 felipe_Brz: i've chmod'd +x the drracket file but I can't run it
20:44 offby1: you should have had to do that
20:44 offby1: did you download a file whose name is something like racket-5.2.1-bin-i386-linux-ubuntu-karmic.sh ?
20:44 offby1: s/should/shouldn't/
20:45 felipe_Brz: no, I've downloaded the 64bit variant
20:45 offby1: well, ok
20:45 offby1: but otherwise: the file name is long, and ends with .sh ?
20:45 felipe_Brz: racket-5.2.1-bin-x86_64-linux-debian-squeeze.sh
20:45 offby1: yep
20:45 felipe_Brz: i'll download it again
20:45 offby1: probably no need
20:46 offby1: when you say "I can't run it", what exactly does that mean -- how did you try to run it, and what did you see?
20:46 chandler: The easiest way to install Racket on Ubuntu is from the PPA. It doesn't have 5.2.1 yet, but I don't think that will be too long.
20:46 chandler: https://launchpad.net/~plt/+archive/racket
20:46 offby1: chandler: somehow I didn't know about that
20:47 chandler: I don't think it's actually mentioned anywhere on the site.
20:47 felipe_Brz: i will try that
20:47 chandler: It's been discussed on the user list, though.
20:48 felipe_Brz: I will be able to run all code featured on SICP on racket, correct?
20:48 offby1: I'm not sure.
20:48 offby1: I am almost certain that you'll need to make minor tweaks to some of the code.
20:48 offby1: There _is_ a SICP "language" for Racket, but I don't know how well it works.
20:49 offby1: I honestly don't know which scheme setup is the easiest for doing the SICP exercises.
20:49 dspt: http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/
20:49 dspt: I haven't done the whole book, but haven't run into any problems yet.
20:50 chandler: Neil Van Dyke actively maintains his SICP language, so if you do have any issues I'm sure he'd want to hear about it.
20:50 felipe_Brz: cool
20:52 offby1: chandler: I'm glad to hear that; I was afraid it was abandonware.
20:52 chandler: OK, now I think you're being sarcastic.
20:52 chandler: (Either that or my sarcastometer is on the fritz.)
20:52 offby1: the latter
20:52 offby1: srsl
20:52 offby1: y
20:53 offby1: it's OK, mine has been flaky too.  Also, I seem to no longer be able to type.
20:55 chandler: Well, that's what you get for triggering a false positive on my sarcastometer.
21:00 offby1: I suspect the typing trouble started earlier.
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21:05 felipe_Brz: so I've added the ppa like this http://pastie.org/3306596
21:06 felipe_Brz: but I still get nothing when I try and do sudo apt-get install racket
21:06 chandler: did you do "apt-get update" first?
21:06 chandler: also, I'm not sure that syntax is right
21:06 chandler: rather than putting PPAs in your sources.list directly, you should use 'apt-add-repository', which is part of the instructions on the PPA page
21:07 felipe_Brz: i did that
21:07 felipe_Brz: then I checked the sources.list file there was nothing
21:07 felipe_Brz: so I added it by hand
21:07 chandler: Right. That's because it's in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
21:08 felipe_Brz: yep
21:08 felipe_Brz: correct
21:08 felipe_Brz: correct
21:08 felipe_Brz: thank you
21:08 chandler: So when you do "apt-get update && sudo apt-get install racket", what happens?
21:09 felipe_Brz: a lot
21:09 felipe_Brz: =P
21:09 felipe_Brz: now it workds
21:09 felipe_Brz: works*
21:09 chandler: OK :-)
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22:05 asumu: stamourv: this is cool https://github.com/shr/pltcod/
22:06 asumu: (is someone here the author by any chance?)
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