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00:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/RLKNFg
00:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added docs for images/compile-time - Neil Toronto
00:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Exposed simple rendering API (can at least render simple icons given a pict now) - Neil Toronto
00:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added clock icon - Neil Toronto
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04:10 Blkt: good morning everyone
04:11 bluezenix: morning
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04:43 sindoc: 		
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04:50 thorwil: hi! i'm trying to understand the steps taken in the little schemer towards the y combinator.
04:52 thorwil: my hope was drracket's debugger might help, but things remain rather opaque. does racket offer means to get step-wise rewriting like one would do writing it out on paper?
04:53 noelw: Sorry, I've never used it. Maybe someone can answer?
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08:53 bremner: at a guess, that rewriting mode would have to be completely seperate from the normal racket evaluation
09:08 jrslepak_: the "Step" tool with HTDP's ISL-λ might be what thorwil wants
09:26 thorwil: does that step tool produce something like http://paste.pocoo.org/show/536135/ ?
09:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/unpcxw
09:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Have a default "" platform so kauai can still be used to make the dmgs. - Eli Barzilay
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09:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/ZSkzuw
09:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add some missing acks - Matthew Flatt
09:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix JIT-generated code in case of arity mismatch - Matthew Flatt
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11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/wTo1bA
11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix stack unsafety for rest-arg functions - Matthew Flatt
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11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to release: http://git.io/HucJwg
11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] Added docs for images/compile-time - Neil Toronto
11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] Exposed simple rendering API (can at least render simple icons given a pict now) - Neil Toronto
11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] Added clock icon - Neil Toronto
11:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to release: http://git.io/zFTaag
11:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] fix stack unsafety for rest-arg functions - Matthew Flatt
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11:40 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to release: http://git.io/MvQXiw
11:40 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] New Racket version 5.2.0.901. - Eli Barzilay
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12:11 jrslepak_: thorwil: that's about what it would do
12:18 thorwil: jrslepak_: it's a bit hard to search for, but along the way, i found http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=tracer.plt&owner=tracer. thanks
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13:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/i38cDQ
13:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust the names of the dot/neato binaries to be platform-specific - Robby Findler
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13:59 Oxryly: is there something like 'namespace-mapped-symbols' where i can just get the provided symbols defined by that module (rather than all this stuff it requires in as well)
14:00 Oxryly: ?
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15:23 asumu: Oxryly: maybe module->exports ?
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15:25 asumu: rudybot: (module->exports 'racket/bool)
15:25 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
15:25 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: ((0 (boolean=? ()) (false ()) (false? ()) (symbol=? ()) (true ())))
15:25 rudybot: asumu: ; Value#2: ()
15:26 asumu: Oxryly: ^ like that
15:26 jonrafkind: I think module-exports will include things provided from other modules
15:26 jonrafkind: (provide (all-from-out blah)) -- like that
15:27 Oxryly: asumu: ok, I'm trying that... it appears that it may work...
15:27 jonrafkind: although you could probably do module-exports - module-imports
15:27 jonrafkind: the only things left should be things defined in the module
15:28 Oxryly: asumu: I'm getting an odd error 'display'ing the results of module->exports: "; context expected 1 value, received 2 values: '((0 (*spider-settings* ())))
15:28 Oxryly: ;   '()
15:29 Oxryly: "
15:30 asumu: Oxryly: module->exports returns multiple values, so you want to do something like (define-values (r1 r2) (module->exports 'racket/bool)) (display r1)
15:30 asumu: rudybot: (let () (define-values (r1 r2) (module->exports 'racket/bool)) (display r1))
15:30 rudybot: asumu: ; stdout: "((0 (boolean=? ()) (false ()) (false? ()) (symbol=? ()) (true ())))"
15:31 Oxryly: asumu: of course... multiple values. says so in the docs even.
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17:59 jonrafkind: whats a quick way to test if a string ends with another string, like endsWith() from python
17:59 jonrafkind: maybe.. substr(s1, length(s1) - length(s2)) == s2
18:02 (quit) add^_: Quit: add^_
18:05 stamourv: jonrafkind: Regexps?
18:06 jonrafkind: .*str$ I guess?
18:06 stamourv: rudybot: (define ((ends-with s) x) (regexp-match (string-append s "$") x))
18:06 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
18:06 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
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18:07 stamourv: rudybot: ((ends-with s) "tests")
18:07 rudybot: stamourv: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: s in module: 'program
18:07 stamourv: rudybot: ((ends-with "s") "tests")
18:07 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: ("s")
18:07 stamourv: rudybot: ((ends-with "s") "test")
18:07 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #f
18:07 stamourv: :D
18:07 jonrafkind: ah I thought it needed to match the entire string.. ok great
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18:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/rgp5tA
18:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Mac OS X: work around a localtime() bug in 64-bit 10.6.8 - Matthew Flatt
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18:10 evanthebouncy: hello?
18:10 evanthebouncy: can anyone see this? O_o
18:11 jonrafkind: yea
18:11 evanthebouncy: cool
18:12 evanthebouncy: i just need some help getting DrRacket
18:12 jonrafkind: http://racket-lang.org/download/
18:12 evanthebouncy: i can type racket on cmd prompt but no idea what this mysterious DrRacket is
18:12 jonrafkind: windows?
18:12 evanthebouncy: no linux
18:12 jonrafkind: how did you install racket
18:12 evanthebouncy: i ran the .sh
18:12 jonrafkind: what if you type 'drracket'
18:13 stamourv: DrRacket should have been installed as well.
18:13 stamourv: Unless you used the `racket-textual' installer.
18:13 evanthebouncy: alrite i have it
18:13 evanthebouncy: lol
18:13 jonrafkind: good work
18:13 evanthebouncy: how should I know i'm supposed to type
18:13 evanthebouncy: drracket
18:14 stamourv: Well, you're looking for DrRacket, so that sounds like a reasonable thing to try typing.
18:14 jonrafkind: how did you know to type racket
18:14 evanthebouncy: no i understand that's reasonable but i feel
18:14 stamourv: Do you have a better suggestion?
18:14 evanthebouncy: say in windows you download something, and install it, it'll create a GUI that says "okay click this, this is what you wanted"
18:14 evanthebouncy: but in linux i feel they just put it in /usr/bin and u don't rly know how to find it
18:15 evanthebouncy: anyways, thanks
18:15 stamourv: You may want to check the menus, it may be there.
18:15 evanthebouncy: i checked under application/programming
18:15 evanthebouncy: it's not
18:15 evanthebouncy: maybe a reboot
18:15 stamourv: I forget what the installer does, but I wouldn't be surprised if it added an icon.
18:15 stamourv: Maybe.
18:15 jonrafkind: with the sh installers you can install to a local directory
18:15 evanthebouncy: but yeah i got it now, it's good
18:15 jonrafkind: so that you dont have to search /usr/bin, you can search ./racket/bin
18:15 evanthebouncy: ;)
18:16 jonrafkind: there is a ppa for ubuntu if you want it
18:16 jonrafkind: but it doesnt install an icon yet
18:16 evanthebouncy: mm i understand that
18:16 jonrafkind: you knew there was a ppa?
18:16 evanthebouncy: no not really
18:16 evanthebouncy: i was just
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18:17 evanthebouncy: http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/
18:17 evanthebouncy: here
18:17 evanthebouncy: that's all
18:17 evanthebouncy: the place where it says "and then start DrRacket." confused the crap out of me
18:17 jonrafkind: you mean you read the guide and expected it to tell you how to run drracket and when you didn't see any explicit directions for how to do so you became confused?
18:17 evanthebouncy: that is exactly right
18:18 evanthebouncy: there should just be a line there says
18:18 evanthebouncy: type drracket
18:18 jonrafkind: yes the 'start drracket' should probably be a link to how to start it
18:18 evanthebouncy: i'm not saying these kind of detail is warranted
18:18 evanthebouncy: but if somebody has never done programming before
18:18 evanthebouncy: u'd think, if racket is to be popular, to reduce the entrance cost
18:19 jonrafkind: I like how the download link points to racket-lang.org too..
18:19 jonrafkind: as opposed to racket-lang.org/download
18:19 evanthebouncy: T__T
18:19 bremner: evanthebouncy: it depends on your OS and setup how to start DrRacket
18:19 evanthebouncy: it's good that's why irc exists
18:19 evanthebouncy: thanks. I'm good now ^^
18:19 evanthebouncy: i should write my adventure game
18:20 evanthebouncy: cheers'
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18:20 jonrafkind: bremner, yes but tehre could be a page for each os
18:21 jonrafkind: it is one of the most painful parts of linux, when you install a new package its usually unclear what the new binaries are. occasionally I have to use dpkg to inspect the contents of new deb files to discover them
18:22 jonrafkind: and stupid naming conventions don't help, thank god racket is called 'racket' as opposed to 'rkt' or something
18:23 bremner: jonrafkind: yes, I know what you mean. In a desktop environment, there should be menu items added I guess.
18:23 Oxryly: heh... it's like Sagan says: " If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe."
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18:40 asumu: jonrafkind: Is there even any docs that describe how to start DrRacket to link to?
18:40 asumu couldn't find any based on a quick search
18:41 stamourv: Dunno, that sounds pretty obvious to me.
18:41 jonrafkind: dont think so
18:42 stamourv: If you don't know how to launch programs from your OS, that's not really Racket's fault.
18:42 stamourv: What's next: How to boot your computer?
18:42 jonrafkind: ok ill put you in a fighter jet cockpit and see how long you last
18:42 jonrafkind: and then after you die when you get to the pearly gates ill say 'but it was oibvious how to use it'
18:42 stamourv: I'd bet a while. I won't even be able to get the thing to start.
18:42 asumu: stamourv: Middle school kids use Racket.
18:43 Oxryly: asumu: not on linux ;)
18:43 stamourv: asumu: And they've been shown how to start DrRacket by their instructor.
18:43 Oxryly: actually I'm just assuming
18:43 stamourv: If we're talking about college-level students, they should be able to figure it out.
18:43 bremner: hahaha
18:43 stamourv: If not, they have bigger problems ahead of them.
18:44 bremner: (me hopes none of his students are reading ;)
18:44 stamourv: Turns out most of a college degree is harder than launching a program.
18:44 jonrafkind: lets keep stamourv out of customer service
18:44 stamourv: I'm fine with that.
18:45 asumu: What we really need is thi: http://tryruby.org/levels/1/challenges/0
18:45 asumu: s/thi/this/
18:45 asumu: (as samth has mentioned before)
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18:51 asumu: After some discussion, maybe some install instructions on the "getting started" page would be handy.
18:51 asumu will send a patch to our documentation tzar
18:52 jonrafkind: the fact that it needed to be discussed amazes me
18:52 asumu: Also, it is kinda amusing that the second link on the "getting started" page is Continue rather than Quick.
18:53 asumu: Seems that actually the 2nd links should be swapped between beginner and experienced.
18:53 bremner: jonrafkind: well, it depends on your expectations. No other software project I'm (peripherally) involved expects to provide that level of support.
18:53 bremner: so, if racket wants to great. But you shouldn't be surprised that other people are not used to the idea.
18:53 jonrafkind: imo if your project has a tutorial about using the software and the first step is "download the software" then "how to run the software" is justified
18:55 asumu: Well, the tutorial might not be the best place to put it there. Some projects put install instructions on their download page.
18:55 asumu: (Ruby is an example)
18:55 asumu: (Incidentally, I couldn't find any instructions for Python)
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18:55 jonrafkind: the tutorial has a link to the racket home page. it can similarly have a link to the instructions to run it
18:55 bremner: installation is different than "first run"
18:56 Oxryly: somehow I've gotten myself a "#%app: missing procedure expression; probably originally (), which is an illegal empty application in: (#%app)"
18:56 Oxryly: with no source location info...
18:56 jonrafkind: output from a macro maybe? try the macro stepper
18:57 asumu: Or a () got snuck in there somehow. Maybe a mistyped '()?
18:58 Oxryly: I scanned for ()
18:58 Oxryly: any suggesting on getting source locations...?
18:58 jonrafkind: send a large check to matthew
19:00 Oxryly: ha
19:00 Oxryly: I'll have to discuss that with my employer
19:01 Oxryly: start publicly discussing our plans to give Chez Scheme a shot ;)
19:01 bremner: so your ok with the large check, obviously ;)
19:02 Oxryly: hmmm... maybe
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19:06 stamourv: Oxryly: If it's the result of macro-expansion, try replacing `syntax' or #' with `syntax/loc'.
19:06 stamourv: Same with `quasisyntax'.
19:06 stamourv: They copy source location from their first argument, and can help get better error messages.
19:08 Oxryly: stamourv: I've experimented with that.  If I have a simple syntax-rules will that make a difference?
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19:08 stamourv: Not sure how syntax-rules handles that.
19:09 stamourv: Anyway, gotta run, I'll be back tomorrow.
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22:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Cd3fOw
22:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove robots meta tags. - Eli Barzilay
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23:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Gbt0rQ
23:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] win64: fix `raco dist' - Matthew Flatt
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23:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/G3MAvQ
23:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] DrRacket & Redex history updates for 5.2.1 - Robby Findler
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