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00:46 offby1 rubs chin
00:46 offby1: turns out I want the cdrs too
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05:20 Twey: If I want to override a symbol in the current namespace, but keep the old symbol around under a different name, how should I go about doing that?
05:21 Twey: E.G. (define raw+ +) (define + -) doesn't work, because + isn't defined at that point in time; (define (raw+ . args) (apply + args)) doesn't work because that + then refers to the new + instead of the old
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06:28 Blkt: good day everyone
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07:00 carleastlund: Good morning, Blkt.
07:00 carleastlund: Twey, if + isn't defined when you're defining raw+, what "old" definition are you trying to preserve?
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07:05 Blkt: :D
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07:34 Twey: carleastlund: From racket/base
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07:37 carleastlund: Twey, are you doing this in a module or at the REPL?
07:38 carleastlund: In either case, the following should work: (require (only-in racket/base [+ raw+]))
07:38 carleastlund: Then just define your + as usual.
07:39 Twey: Thanks!
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10:00 Twey: Why is it ‘<’ but ‘string<?’ rather than ‘string<’?
10:00 bremner: tradition, I'd guess
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10:01 Twey: Hmph
10:01 bremner: predicates end in ?, except math operators, which we recognize as predicates
10:01 bremner: or whatever
10:02 Twey: But surely ‘string<’ has the same ‘mathematical operator’ status as ‘<’
10:02 bremner: I mean, the semantics of '+' are pretty well known ;)
10:02 Twey: True :þ
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10:49 Gertm: Can I specify 'providing' all functions without explicitly listing them?
10:50 carleastlund: Gertm, (provide (all-defined-out))
10:54 Gertm: thanks!
10:55 Gertm: Maybe there's a better way of doing that, but I'm using that with rackunit, so I can test all the functions in the code.
11:04 carleastlund: One way is to write your tests inside the module as a test suite, and just export the suite.
11:07 Gertm: Ah, I'll read up on testsuites for that.
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11:33 offby1: Gertm: rackunit also has "require/expose"
11:33 offby1: which lets it creepily reach into your module and grab otherwise-unprovided stuff!
11:33 offby1: dunno how that works.
11:33 offby1 plays eerie organ music
11:33 Gertm: I should look into that.
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11:40 offby1: it should look into _you_
11:40 offby1: (require/expose Gertm) (blackmail Gertm)
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11:45 Gertm: !!
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12:00 Twey: Hmph
12:00 Twey: Why is there a generic ‘equal?’ that works for any two values, but not a ‘<’?  *grumble*
12:02 bremner: umm. because math?
12:02 bremner: oh, you want some kind of "comparable typeclass" ?
12:03 offby1: yeah, because it isn't obvious what "less than" should mean when given, say, two binary trees
12:03 offby1: or two images
12:04 Twey: I don't actually care — I just want it to be consistent so I can compare two things without caring about order
12:05 Twey: bremner: That would be nice
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13:28 yoklov: racket could use a bit more polymorphism though.
13:32 yoklov: having to type things like string<? feels silly.
13:33 bremner: typed-racket has polymorphism
13:33 yoklov: i don't like types.
13:34 bremner: sure you do.
13:34 bremner: you might not like static typing.
13:34 yoklov: well, yeah.
13:35 yoklov: that is what i mean.
13:35 yoklov: i like my type system to be as dynamic as possible.
13:35 yoklov: possible/reasonable
13:36 jonrafkind: what you really mean is you don't want your type system to constrain the expressions you write
13:36 jonrafkind: to which I whole heartedly agree. type systems should act more like best effort static analysis
13:36 yoklov: right.
13:36 yoklov: err, right at the first one, unsure at the second
13:37 jonrafkind: well, what sorts of errors do type systems prevent? only the class that gives the wrong kind of data to an operation
13:37 asumu: yoklov: Sounds like what you really want is overloading ala multimethods or something.
13:37 jonrafkind: but there are many other classes of errors a program can have
13:37 asumu: s/ala/via/
13:38 yoklov: right,.
13:38 asumu: (or extensible functions or whatever)
13:38 yoklov: asumu: thats probably true
13:38 asumu: It would be nice to have that in Racket. It seems to work well for Clojure.
13:38 yoklov: jonrafkind: okay i see what you're saying now and i agree.
13:39 jonrafkind: at some point trying to satisfy the type system just becomes a waste of time
13:39 yoklov: yeah
13:39 bremner: jonrafkind: that's why it's perfect to inflict on students ;)
13:39 jonrafkind: true true
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15:05 yoklov: … why does sleep take its argument in seconds, and not something more reasonable like milliseconds
15:05 offby1: Why are our days numbered, and not, say, lettered?
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15:05 offby1: yoklov: my guess: portability
15:05 offby1 imagines Jack Lemmon saying "Security!"
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15:06 yoklov: lol
15:06 yoklov: i guess thats reasonable
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15:54 yoklov: i give up.
15:54 yoklov: i just clearly shouldn't write any code today.
15:55 yoklov: i broke my program and made it unresponsive.  apparently so thoroughly that even cloning a known working version of it into a new folder has the same problem.
15:59 offby1: yeah, that's called "sympathetic defect inducement"
16:01 yoklov: yeah, every version of this program that i have is broken now.
16:01 yoklov: even ones from nearly a month ago
16:02 yoklov: … am i forgetting how to run this?  did i used to use a flag?
16:04 yoklov: oh phew.  my laptop must just be broken.
16:04 yoklov: still works on my desktop.
16:06 yoklov: … and now it works on my laptop.
16:06 yoklov: ugh i must be going crazy, i think it has to do with where i'm sitting.
16:07 offby1: hmm, now _mine_ is broken.
16:08 offby1 whistles innocently
16:08 yoklov: move to another chair. trust me, it works.
16:09 offby1: hey, the chair's broken!
16:10 offby1 glares at yoklov
16:10 offby1: quit sending your bogon rays into my house!
16:11 yoklov: cd chair && git bisect start
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16:14 offby1: I can't cd chair; I'm in a chroot jail on my couch
16:15 yoklov: lol
16:17 yoklov begins to wonder if that change he made earlier that broke everything would have worked...
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18:30 dgs: I'm trying to use drracket to work thru htdp2, but I'm not very familiar with it
18:30 dgs: `
18:34 dgs: `Some of the exercises build on the previous answers so I'm trying to include the text file containing the previous answer.
18:34 dgs: From the documentation I think you need to do this via (require racket/include) (include "153.scm") but when I try this I get an error - "modulue: illegal use (not at top level)"
18:34 dgs: Anyone know what I could be doing wrong? (Can supply pastie if it makes things easier...)
18:34 dgs: ~
18:35 dgs: ~
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18:35 dgs: ~                                  (sorry - connection here is very dodgy)
18:47 offby1: dgs: my hunch is that 153.scm begins with "#lang something"
18:47 offby1 was just using "include" yesterday
18:52 dgs: yup - it did. but I've removed it and I'm still getting the same error
18:55 dgs: mmm. it seems racket includes some other requires at the top of each fiele it creates
18:55 dgs: if I remove those, I get a different error
18:55 dgs: 153inc.rkt:23:1: expand: unbound identifier in module in: check-expect
18:55 dgs: should the file i'm including have the racket stuff at the top, or should it be just raw txt src?
19:01 offby1: not sure, tbh
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19:11 dgs: oh. oh well, thanks anyways ])
19:11 dgs: =)  rather
19:13 dgs: are you  using a #lang at the top of your main source file, or specifying it via the language option in drrackt?
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19:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vgPtrg
19:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix and generalize errortrace detection of always-ok functions - Matthew Flatt
19:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix typo (patch from Gustavo Massaccesi) - Matthew Flatt
20:01 offby1: dgs: I always put #lang in the file; I rarely use drracket at all
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20:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 5 new commits to master: http://git.io/EiQ5zA
20:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Minor improvements, mainly to the header/status suffixes. - Eli Barzilay
20:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Tiny typo. - Eli Barzilay
20:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Minor bug fix: using a string as a path should be used as a path. - Eli Barzilay
21:08 dgs: what?
21:08 dgs: tsorry
21:08 dgs: what do you use?
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21:17 bremner: he uses vim
21:18 bremner: or that other pre-historic editor
21:18 bremner: seriously, he probably uses emacs, like many scheme/lisp programmers
21:40 offby1: bremner: ya think?
21:41 bremner: well. tryin' to be a scientist about this.
21:41 bremner: I mean, I've never seen you use emacs with my own eyes
21:43 offby1: for that matter, I might be an AI, or a hallucination
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21:46 RackN00b: Can anyone help me out with this? It was a question from a few months ago. My solution was ~40 lines with three Y-combinators. My prof indicated that his solution was 4 lines: Write a function without using explicit recursion (pure lambda) that consumes a list of numbers and produces the powerset of the set of numbers in the list. IE (foo '(1 2 3)) => '( () (1) (2) (3) (1 2) (2 3) (1 2 3) (1 3)) The order within
21:46 RackN00b: list doesn't matter.
21:47 RackN00b: Maybe let's start by forgetting the pure-lamba. How would you right a function that combines every element in a list with every element thereafter
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21:53 offby1: geez, I've done that a bunch of times
21:56 RackN00b: I just can't see how to do it. :(
21:57 RackN00b: Ah. crap... Gotta fly.
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22:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/m9HFqQ
22:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove accidentally pushed commits - Robby Findler
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