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01:59 ambrosebs: does Racket have something similar to typeclasses in Haskell?
02:06 jonrafkind: no, but it does have occurence typing which lets you progressively refine the type using predicates
02:17 ambrosebs: I was thinking, Clojure protocols are similar to typeclasses. I'm porting TR to Clojure and I'm wondering where they might fit
02:19 ambrosebs: Clojure code seems to be less worried about the actual type than which protocols it implements
02:19 jonrafkind: whats the difference between protocols and type classes
02:21 ambrosebs: I think protocols only dispatch on the first argment of the method
02:21 ambrosebs: http://debasishg.blogspot.com/2010/08/random-thoughts-on-clojure-protocols.html
02:21 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3xyeuh5
02:22 ambrosebs: any similarity between typeclasses and protocols I've picked up from that post
02:26 jonrafkind: why dont they just use standard terminology, like interface
02:27 jonrafkind: "were gonna use random words for known things. why? f*** you thats why"
02:27 ambrosebs: probably because Clojure can also create Java Interfaces, which are different
02:27 ambrosebs: :)
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05:29 tim-brown: mornin all
05:30 tim-brown: has anyone done any work with SOAP/WSDL/XML Schema in racket?
05:31 tim-brown: i.e. can i cadge a XMLSchema->match-lambda function off anyone?
05:46 noelw: Thankfully, I've never had to deal with SOAP
05:50 tim-brown: how about xml-schema though? would be a real boost to a lot of XML handling software to have some kind of schema->{validation, signature, match} mechanism
05:51 tim-brown: that said... it's probably my freeloading nature that keeps me from just getting on and doing it myself
05:52 tim-brown: so... if i have an xml schema, any suggestions as to what kind of "structure" would be most useful or idiomatically compatible with racket?
05:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/jU59TA
05:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Revert "adjust the synchronization in check syntax for reading doc results to" - Robby Findler
05:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] brutal changes to check syntax to try to see if they fix the symptom Marijn reports - Robby Findler
05:58 sindoc: tim-brown:  what do you mean by signature in this context?
06:00 tim-brown: i meant contract
06:00 tim-brown: sorry
06:01 tim-brown: take an xml schema, produce a contract
06:01 tim-brown: take that contract and compare it to an xexpr that i either want to post or have received
06:01 tim-brown: for validation
06:02 tim-brown: xml schema would be useful for validation of xml documents, or construction of data types
06:02 tim-brown: (but i don't know what would be the most useful data type)
06:02 tim-brown: i'm seriously considering a "match", since it can both validate, and extract data
06:03 tim-brown: (by validate, i mean throw an exception... but that's good enough for me)
06:03 tim-brown: (and when I state "I meant contract", I'm actually saying "I think I meant contract")
06:05 sindoc: What I understand by you saying "I think I mean contract" is that you'd like to generate Racket contracts, given an XML Schema instance
06:06 sindoc: and of course use those contracts afterwords to validate an XML document
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06:09 sindoc: Sorry, I have to go!
06:13 tim-brown: sindoc: you got the idea. cya later
06:21 sindoc: tim-brown: I'm back :)
06:22 sindoc: I too have thought about Racket and XML in general
06:22 sindoc: http://www.lichteblau.com/cxml-rng/
06:22 sindoc: http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/
06:22 tim-brown: i'm not sure that there is any merit in taking an xml:schema and producing anything that creates xml (or xexpr) documents from it -- it's just too easy to use lists
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06:26 tim-brown: cxml uses DTDs as its "schema" description (which is fair enough, as they can be embedded in the XML document themselves)
06:26 sindoc: cxml-rng supports RELAX NG
06:27 sindoc: which for the sake of argument, can be considered equivalent to XML Schema; even though they're not
06:28 tim-brown: i was going to ask, is that compatible with XML Schema... but...
06:28 tim-brown: are you suggesting that it's likely to be more of a "renaming" than a "restructuring" exercise
06:28 tim-brown: although it's a CLISP->scheme port?
06:30 sindoc: Now, I'm discussing in high-level mode
06:30 sindoc: it would not really matter which XML grammar we would use
06:31 tim-brown: ... I'm starting to get a picture of how cxml-rng goes about this
06:32 sindoc: Whether it be RELAX NG or W3C XML Schema
06:32 sindoc: In fact, Racket is the perfect platform to support, say the RELANG NG Compact Syntax
06:34 sindoc: Only in the sense that it is very natural to create a parser and hook it to existing eval engine
06:36 sindoc: As to your initial question, the answer is: to my knowledge, there's no library that helps validate XML documents agains instances of XML Schema
06:36 tim-brown: I've just rediscovered what has put me off in the past... data validation
06:37 sindoc: Then again, I hope someone would say otherwise
06:37 tim-brown: XML Schema has a particularly, er, challenging way of describing it
06:37 tim-brown: Or maybe that's just a perspective I have
06:38 sindoc: I have never thought of a contract-based approach to XML validation; at least not in Racket
06:39 sindoc: My instinct says: contracts may come in very handy for providing higher-order XML validation
06:40 sindoc: such as Schematron
06:40 tim-brown: They may, indeed... for immediate use, "match"ing might be a more practical use
06:42 sindoc: This discussion has two threads —at least the way I see it
06:42 sindoc: One is your initial question
06:43 tim-brown: Which still stands... since I'm presented with WSDL descriptions containing xml schemata
06:43 sindoc: The other is a higher-level discussion as to interfacing with XML in Racket
06:43 sindoc: let's now focus on the first one
06:44 sindoc: Have you thought about wrapping a native validator in Racket?
06:44 sindoc: This will of course be no more than a wrapper to a library, probably written in C
06:45 sindoc: but it will help you do what you want to do
06:45 tim-brown: Let's step back a mo...
06:46 tim-brown: I actually want the data from the document
06:46 tim-brown: Validation would be a side effect of having a "valid" document from which to extract the data
06:47 sindoc: Could you please clarify as to what are referred to by "the document" and "the data"?
06:51 tim-brown: one step further back...
06:51 tim-brown: this is in the context of my wanting to make/handle SOAP requests
06:52 tim-brown: i'm trying to get my head around how i express the input to my RPC calls
06:52 tim-brown: and interpret the results
06:52 sindoc: Would you like to generate SOAP instances, given a WSDL instance?
06:52 tim-brown: indeed
06:53 tim-brown: so far, I have used hand-written "match"es, from WSDL
06:53 tim-brown: and hand written request builders
06:54 sindoc: There is a quick solution
06:54 tim-brown: that's worked for me in a couple of instances, but it seems to me that i have this structured description...
06:54 tim-brown: why can't i automate it
06:54 tim-brown: ?
06:55 tim-brown: Iron-Scheme?
06:55 sindoc: Racket allows you to parse XML document
06:55 sindoc: *XML dcuments
06:55 sindoc: Could you not parse the WSDL instance
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06:56 sindoc: and generate xexpr, which you would then serialize into XML
06:56 sindoc: BUT
06:56 sindoc: I personally would have done it in XSLT
06:56 sindoc: since both input and output are XML
06:57 sindoc: In other words, a priori, based on your descriptions, I don't really see why Racket is needed in this problem instance
06:58 tim-brown: http server -- plus i have a lot of other work to do on the document
06:59 sindoc: Even better, given the assumption that both and input and output are XML, isn't there a Free -as in Freedom- library that provides such feature?
07:00 sindoc: By HTTP server, do you mean that you are handling HTTP requests in Racket?
07:00 tim-brown: would like to
07:01 tim-brown: I have an interface in C# that uses the WSDL to produce "objects" representing SOAP transactions.
07:01 tim-brown: And SOAP, being a Microsoft beastie is well supported in C#
07:01 tim-brown: I'd just like to see the same in Racket
07:02 sindoc: Again, if you find a suitable library, you can consider writing wrappers for it in Racket
07:03 tim-brown: There is an xml-rpc library on planet; so I'm just a little frustrated that there isn't something supporting SOAP (in raw scheme)
07:05 sindoc: You can still use Racket if you make a REST interface that calls the service implemented in C#
07:06 sindoc: This way, you use Racket, you do "that thing" namely SOAP generation in C# via a simple HTTP request
07:06 sindoc: Then back in Racket, you keep having real fun ;)
07:07 sindoc: I have to go now though
07:07 sindoc: It was nice talking to you tim-brown
07:07 tim-brown: thanks for chewing that trhough with me
07:07 tim-brown: appreciated
07:08 sindoc: No problem
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08:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/NpwGCA
08:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix race in subprocess test - Matthew Flatt
08:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `raco make --no-deps' - Matthew Flatt
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09:20 yoklov: hey, is there any way to get something like paredit-mode in drracket?
09:20 yoklov: i know i can have it so it closes the parens i open, but if i type a closing one that unbalances the expression
09:30 yoklov: and there are various other paredit-like keybindings, but i wanted to know if i could get drracket to ensure that the s-expressions i type are always balanced
09:31 noelw: I don't think so.
09:31 noelw: Danny Yoo worked on something a while ago, but I don't think it has been maintained
09:37 yoklov: alright
09:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Xk44pQ
09:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Small spelling error - Jordan Schatz
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11:29 stamourv: yoklov: There's divascheme, which is (I think) what noelw was referring to.
11:29 noelw: Yeah, that's the one
11:29 stamourv: Although IIRC, it had a bit of a vi-ish flavor to it.
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11:32 noelw: It had modes, IIRC. So yes, vi-ish.
11:32 noelw: The horror
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13:39 danking: Does this exist/am I insane for wanting it? https://gist.github.com/1473268
13:46 jonrafkind: (for #:when ...)
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13:55 asumu: rudybot: doc do
13:55 rudybot: asumu: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/for.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fmore-scheme..rkt)._do))
13:55 asumu: danking: ^
13:57 danking: asumu: If I use do I have to mutate the ids rather than return a (values ...) form
13:58 danking: Because they're not simply stepping up or down, they're sets that are growing and contracting (ultimately contracting to empty and halting)
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14:10 asumu: danking: Isn't it possible to encode that in the step function and let the empty check be the stop expr?
14:10 asumu: Oh, unless you mean it depends on the results of the body.
14:11 asumu: I would just use a recursive function there probably.
14:11 danking: asumu: Yeah it depends on the results of the body.
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14:11 sdasd: hi. i need ppl to click my link: http://tunesgenerator.com/?r=113481
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14:13 danking: asumu: I basically have the implied side of the implication, and I'm thinking the (for/while ...) might be a more descriptive syntax.
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14:18 samth: ambrosebs: the most similar thing to type classes in racket is struct type properties
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14:30 ambrosebs: samth: does TR handle them?
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14:32 samth: ambrosebs: no
14:33 samth: it probably could, but there might be tricky issues
14:33 samth: i haven't really investigated yet
14:37 ambrosebs: samth: I used some wishful thinking for some syntax using interfaces/protocols like type classes https://gist.github.com/1471620
14:37 samth: yes, it would be nice to have that
14:37 ambrosebs: I'm not sure if the impl will be a problem
14:37 ambrosebs: as in I haven't thought abou tit
14:38 samth: another possibility for TR is subtype-bounded polymorphism, where you'd say that a <: Iseq
14:45 ambrosebs: samth: how far away is TR from that?
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14:53 samth: ambrosebs: TR doesn't have bounded polymorphism at all
14:54 samth: and i'm not sure whether haskell-style or java-style would be better or easier
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15:46 ambrosebs: samth: do Unions take the place of bounded polymorphism in TR atm?
15:47 ambrosebs: to do similar things?
15:48 samth: ambrosebs: not really -- you can't express some things you'd want
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16:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/_3knGg
16:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix doc inconsistency for require/typed. - Asumu Takikawa
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21:49 offby1: rudybot: (build-list 100 add1)
21:49 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
21:49 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100)
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22:44 loz`: rudybot: (map + '(1 2 3 4 5))
22:44 rudybot: loz`: your sandbox is ready
22:44 rudybot: loz`: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5)
22:44 loz`: rudybot: (foldl + '(1 2 3 4 5))
22:44 rudybot: loz`: error: procedure foldl: no clause matching 2 arguments: #<procedure:+> '(1 2 3 4 5)
22:45 loz`: rudybot: (foldl + 0 '(1 2 3 4 5))
22:45 rudybot: loz`: ; Value: 15
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