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01:49 jaimef: finally got it working
01:50 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
01:56 jonrafkind: delicious
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02:04 jaimef: how do you kick off gc?
02:05 jaimef: manually is there a way?
02:05 mithos28: (collect-garbage)
02:09 (quit) freakazoid: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
02:09 jaimef: thanks
02:10 jaimef: custodians are nice
02:11 mithos28: They look very nice to me, but I have yet to have a problem where they are the solution
02:12 jonrafkind: me too
02:37 jaimef: thread level memory limits? wish java had that
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03:31 jaimef: wow errors really cause a performance hit
03:31 jaimef: s/errors/unhandled exceptions/g
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06:11 Blkt: good day everyone
06:11 gf3: good day, sir
06:11 Blkt: :D
06:12 noelw: Top of the morning
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07:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/Fl9YDQ
07:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] implement JITted x86 floating-point operations with SSE - Matthew Flatt
07:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix pconvert test - Matthew Flatt
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08:13 noelw: Faster floating point = w00t!
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09:06 kewne: Any tip for optimizing the following code? (in particular I would like to get rid of string->number)
09:06 kewne: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yuSkqYnr
09:07 noelw: You could write your own string->number using cond
09:07 kewne: Testing from "1" to "9" manually?
09:08 noelw: I.e. (cond [(string=? match "1") (make-string 1 #\.)] …)
09:08 noelw: Yeah, if you're concerned about that overhead
09:08 noelw: I would be tempted to turn the string into a port
09:08 noelw: Read it a character at a time
09:08 noelw: and convert directly into the 2D array representation
09:08 noelw: I think that should be faster
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09:09 noelw: Maybe try it in Typed Racket to see if those optimisations have a noticeable effect
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09:09 kewne: How would I know the length of each row in the 2D array?
09:09 kewne: (I need it to work with different sizes for different chess variants, so until I expands the digits...)
09:09 noelw: Well a row is always 8 elements long
09:09 noelw: oh ok.
09:10 noelw: Dunno then. Specify it up front? Do one pass to work it out?
09:10 kewne: Mmmm, maybe I could do it into a list and pad convert to a vector later, padding to the largest list size.
09:10 noelw: Yeah.
09:10 noelw: First up, just try the code you have in Typed Racket
09:10 noelw: It does some nice optimisations which might have an effect in your case.
09:11 noelw: (But I don't expect much.)
09:14 crk: hi, i was wondering if there's a way to limit the number of decimal places in racket floating point numbers?
09:15 crk: I'm writing some code to test function outputs, and the floating point precision errors are getting very annoying :)
09:15 noelw: If you're using Rackunit, use check-=
09:15 crk: I'd like to have some range (say +- 0.2) as my tolerance
09:15 noelw: You can specify a precision for your tests
09:15 crk: no, i'm not using rackunit
09:16 crk: I'd have liked to
09:16 crk: but I can't see a way to use the rackunit PASS/FAIL in my program logic
09:16 crk: I would've liked to leverage the #t or #f value (depending on whether the test fails or passes) to conditionally add marks
09:16 crk: where needed
09:17 noelw: I see
09:17 crk: is there a way to do that?
09:17 noelw: You can catch the exception raised by a check failing
09:17 noelw: and convert that into #f
09:17 crk: aha...
09:17 crk: that seems worth an attempt
09:17 crk: thanks for that pointer
09:17 noelw: I think checks return void on success, so you'd need to change that into #t as well
09:18 crk: i'll only be using simple tests like (check-equal? .... )
09:18 crk: I didn't know about the exception thingy
09:18 crk: I assumed since the code runs regardless of pass/fail, there isn't any exception handling going on :D
09:19 crk is a racket n00b
09:19 noelw: There are funky exception handlers in Rackunit
09:19 noelw: so that a check failure doesn't stop other checks from running
09:19 noelw: It's in the docs (test contexts) but it's not the simplest thing in the world
09:19 kewne: noelw: typed racket just spits out a lot of type errors. I guess before trying to go with typed racket, I'll test just replacing number->string.
09:20 crk: noelw, thanks for the pointers
09:20 crk: I'll see if I make any progress with them
09:20 noelw: np
09:20 crk: :)
09:21 kewne: By the way, not related, but every language should have an equivalent library to racket/cmdline.
09:22 crk: for cmdline arguments?
09:22 crk: I've used python's optparse for that kind of stuff
09:22 crk: it's pretty handy
09:23 crk: zomg... noelw, are you the same guy who authored this? : http://download.racket-lang.org/docs/5.1/pdf/rackunit.pdf
09:23 noelw: Yes
09:23 crk: :now
09:23 crk: :bow
09:23 noelw: I wrote most (all?) of the Rackunit docs
09:23 crk: :P
09:23 crk: you a student?
09:24 noelw: Not any more. Though being a student was a good opportunity to learn Racket
09:24 crk: man... i so wanna be part of the whole racket thing
09:25 noelw: I'm sure all contributions will be well received!
09:25 crk: my prof worked with Prof Felleisen
09:25 crk: but sadly where we are right now. we don't really have any kind of an active group
09:25 crk: or people generally interested in scheme/racket
09:25 noelw: Ah! Where are you?
09:25 crk: IIIT, Hyderabad, India
09:25 noelw: Groovy. That's not the answer I expected :)
09:26 crk: I saw the FLOSS video that Dr.Flatt was on
09:26 crk: made me think I could really use some exposure
09:26 crk: with this
09:26 crk: i'm pursuing an MS here... so that gives me lots of time :D
09:26 crk: and the guide, as I told you, is absolutely bonkers about anything lispy
09:27 crk: :D
09:27 crk: nuff said
09:27 crk: he'll impale me if I don't have this evaluation thing done soon
09:27 noelw: Heh.
09:27 kewne is just trying to write a program that makes a PNG image of chess positions.
09:28 crk: we're doing a course here on Programming Languages
09:28 crk: that is entirely based on Racket
09:28 crk: as the teaching environment
09:28 crk: http://pascal.iiit.ac.in/~popl/
09:29 kewne: I just use Racket because I couldn't get any supposedly portable drawing library to work on Python/Ruby on Win32 though.
09:29 noelw: Looks like a fun course.
09:29 noelw: kewne: that's quite funny (at least, to me)
09:29 noelw: I applaud you're willingness to adopt a rather unusual tool
09:29 crk: yeap... we're referring EoPL and HtDP
09:30 crk: its around 3 years since we've had this course at the university
09:30 noelw: s/you're/your
09:30 crk: :)
09:30 crk: nice thing kewne
09:30 kewne: Well, after compiling libgd, finding that gd2-ffij (ruby) doesn't work on Windows, pycairo just segfaults... etc I just tried racket/draw and it worked out of the box so I stuck with that.
09:30 crk: :)
09:31 kewne: I guess I prefer using tools where any error is my fault instead. :P
09:32 noelw: That's always nice! At least the problems can then be resolved.
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10:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bpawhw
10:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Incorrect documentation - Jay McCarthy
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10:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/uqyI6Q
10:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add add-make-prefix-to-constructor tests - Robby Findler
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11:12 epsil: does racket have docstrings?
11:12 epsil: if not, is there a preferred way to document functions?
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11:14 noelw: epsil: Scribble docs are the norms
11:16 (nick) notelliottcable -> elliottcable
11:16 epsil: can one use Scribble inside comments?
11:16 noelw: Not inside comments, but the norm is to write scribble documentation alongside the code
11:17 noelw: You can write scribble inside your code as well
11:17 noelw: I think Neil van Dyke has a package on Planet for this.
11:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/aRC2aQ
11:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] at-exp, scribble: remove distinctness of @{}-introduced newlines - Matthew Flatt
11:19 epsil: hm ... how do I link external documentation to the code?
11:19 epsil: I mean, the benefit to docstrings is that I can ask the REPL what a function does, and it will be able to return a textual description
11:19 epsil: I don't have to hunt for said function in an external document somewhere
11:21 noelw: You can type help into the REPL
11:21 noelw: Try (help cons)
11:21 noelw: It might take a while at first
11:22 epsil: what if I want to be able to do (help my-function)?
11:22 epsil: how do I set up a help page for my-function?
11:22 noelw: Write Scribble docs for it
11:22 noelw: Also look at xrepl
11:22 noelw: ,describe etc.
11:23 noelw: (and install your Scribble docs in the system doc system)
11:24 epsil: I have to manually install the docs into my own file tree?
11:24 epsil: there isn't a way to declare in the code where the docfile is?
11:27 noelw: Normally you write an info.rkt file
11:28 noelw: In that file you specify where the docs live
11:28 noelw: Then you run a command to install the docs
11:28 noelw: I don't remember the command offhand as I haven't done it for a whle
11:33 epsil: okay
11:34 epsil: hm
11:35 noelw: It isn't very lightweight, but Racket docs are typically much higher quality than other languages
11:35 noelw: It's a tradeoff
11:35 epsil: I agree that the racket docs are very high quality
11:35 epsil: still, it's nice to have a short summary in the code as well
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11:36 kewne: Is there any usual naming convention for global parameters? i.e: as in (define *foo* (make-parameter ...))
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11:37 noelw: current-foo is a parameter
11:38 noelw: with-foo the macro one typically writes to use it
11:38 kewne: current-foo? I was just using: (foo)
11:40 noelw: Sure. The convention is to name parameters current-foo
11:40 noelw: (define current-foo (make-parameter ...))
11:41 kewne: Good enough, thanks.
11:43 kewne: Is it a bad sign to have about... 15 global parameters? (cmdline options)
12:06 RackN00b: Can I post a function in here and see if anyone can help me figure out how to apply it properly?
12:07 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
12:08 bremner: RackN00b: use a pastebin site please
12:08 bremner: other than that, ask away
12:12 RackN00b: ok.. I'll go paste it and provie al ink...
12:13 RackN00b: http://pastebin.com/t7w5AGvx
12:13 RackN00b: I am trying to write a function that consumes a list and produces a new list with each number in the original list squared.
12:14 RackN00b: The function I pasted is derived from a factorial function - am I missing a parameter somewhere?
12:16 epsil: (map (lambda (x) (* x x)) '(1 2 3 4)) => (1 4 9 16)
12:16 RackN00b: Trying to do it without using abstract list functions...
12:16 epsil: ah, never mind then
12:16 RackN00b: I need to come up with a lambda-only definition for map right?
12:17 epsil: you could loop through the list and add each squared value to a result list
12:17 RackN00b: No iteration either, :P
12:18 epsil: hm
12:19 epsil: so what are you allowed to use?
12:19 kewne: I guess... the Y combinator and not much else...
12:19 RackN00b: cons, first, rest, empty empty? cons? and lambda. One define statement and nothing else...
12:19 epsil: a recursive function, then
12:20 RackN00b: I used the y comb for the factorial function and I figured that I might just be able to apply that to the list, simply changing the operation - no dice...
12:20 RackN00b: Yes, but not explicitly recursive... I can't call a function by name.
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12:28 kewne: RackN00b, your procedure is almost correct.
12:29 RackN00b: Well at least I'm getting closer :D
12:29 kewne: But look at the latest line...
12:29 kewne: specifically: (cons (sqr (first x)) (rest x)))))
12:29 kewne: If you are returning (rest x)... how are you going to get the squares of the rest of the elements?
12:30 RackN00b: Right - it's just producing a list with the first item squared and consing it onto the rest of the list as-is, which is no good.
12:30 kewne: Then, you need to also apply f to the rest of the elements.
12:30 RackN00b: I need to apply some function to (rest x) I just can't figure out how
12:30 kewne: But before you do that (and get an error)
12:31 RackN00b: The problem with that is that it seems to always expect a non-empty list and it gets an empty list - which I assumed I recitify with a cond statement, checking for an empty list... but still no dice. I'll post what I just tried to pastebin as well...
12:31 kewne: you should check for the length of the list so that when it eachs '(), it ends.
12:31 kewne: In your definition...
12:31 kewne: (lambda (f)
12:32 kewne: .. (lambda (x) ...
12:32 kewne: where 'f' is the procedure you are applying recursively
12:32 kewne: so you want to apply that to (rest x) too.
12:32 RackN00b: Weird - I jsut tried that and it worked! I guess I must have messed up when I tried adding the cond before...
12:32 kewne: And 'x' is the argument, which is a list.
12:32 kewne: You should check against (null? x) in every step.
12:33 RackN00b: Now is this explicit recursion? Cause I am calling the function f on (rest x) or does it not count as strict recursion?
12:34 kewne: It's a way to create recursion.
12:34 kewne: http://secs.ceas.uc.edu/~franco/C511/html/Scheme/ycomb.html
12:35 RackN00b: Also, is it fair to say that any recursive function can be written in a non-recursive manner like this? If so, would nested recursive functions then required the nesting of multiple non-recursive equivalents?
12:35 RackN00b: Ooh - nice link, thanks
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13:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PRBjZw
13:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] generalize brush transformation to apply to a stipple - Matthew Flatt
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14:36 RackN00b: Could anyone possible give me an example of how to use lambda to avoid making a recursive call to a function by name? I have a function and I make two recursive calls within it, but I'd like to use a lambda to avoid that... any ideas?
14:37 RackN00b: I guess another aplpication of the y comb.. I swear to god this thing is awesome
14:39 Shvillr: Are you allowed to use named lets? Probably not, since they're named.
14:43 asumu: RackN00b: So the very simplest example is ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))
14:44 asumu: Notice the trick it uses here is giving itself itself as an argument.
14:44 RackN00b: Asumu... that's a non-terminating function
14:44 asumu: It's also recursive.
14:44 asumu: You can easily make it non-terminating.
14:45 RackN00b: I've been using the y combinator to do all my recursion, I'm just trying to see if I can apply it to the whole function I just wrote so that I can avoid the calls... I might not be being clear :(
14:45 RackN00b: Shvillr - no lets
14:46 Shvillr: yeah, that would be cheating I guess
14:46 RackN00b: Quick note here - haven't done lets in class but they're equivalent to local definitions, yes?
14:47 RackN00b: Even if I used a let though, I would need to name the function I'm binding to the let, no?
14:47 Shvillr: Nono, a named let can be used as a recurive function.
14:48 (quit) rgrinberg: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
14:48 RackN00b: II thought a let was just used to prevent evaluating the same recursive result multiple times...
14:50 Shvillr: rudybot: (let loop ((n 1)) (when (<= n 10) (begin (display n) (loop (+ n 1)))))
14:50 rudybot: Shvillr: your sandbox is ready
14:50 rudybot: Shvillr: ; stdout: "12345678910"
14:50 RackN00b: Haven't done loops yet but I follow...
14:52 Shvillr: So yeah, it works pretty much like a function here. It's also named, so I guess using it would be against the spirit of your assignment.
14:52 RackN00b: I think so...
14:52 RackN00b: :(
14:54 Shvillr: Well, you could include it as a backup solution. "Hey teach, I'm reading ahead!"
14:55 RackN00b: Haha! Sadly, the auto submission system fails if you use anything other than allwoed functions.
14:55 jonrafkind: when was the last time anyone actually said 'hey teach'
14:55 Shvillr: <smartass>Er, one minute ago?</smartass>
14:56 jonrafkind: IRL
14:56 Shvillr: I know, I just felt like continuing with lame jokes. Sorry. :)
14:57 RackN00b: But I would still need to define (using let) that it's a recursive result on part of a list...
14:58 RackN00b: This is killin' me! I've come so far using y comb for creating different non-recursive functions and this is where I get super-stuck! ah-mazing.
14:58 Shvillr: What's the original task?
14:59 RackN00b: Write a function that produces all possible subsets (the powerset) of a set of numbers consumed as a list.
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15:00 Shvillr: Nonrecursive, I take it?
15:00 RackN00b: It's a bons question in three parts. First part, do it with normal recursion, no prob. Second part is to do that without explicitly recursing on the named function. Thirds part is to do it using only: empty? empty cond cons? first rest and lambda. For the third part, you're allowed one "define" statement for the whole function.
15:00 RackN00b: I did the first and have the third almost done, with the exception of naming the function for the recursive call...
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15:27 ozzloy: RackN00b, it sounds like this problem was designed to help you independently come up with y-combinator
15:27 ozzloy: those are the basic steps in the derivation of it
15:27 RackN00b: I know.
15:28 RackN00b: I've done that, i'm just having problems applying it four times in the same function :D It would admittedly help if I used reasonable parameter names...
15:28 ozzloy: try doing those steps with an easier function, like factorial
15:29 ozzloy: like first do it the normal named way, then do it without explicitly recursing on itself.  btw, how did  you solve that part?
15:29 RackN00b: I have. I wrote a factorial and a fibonacci function... and one that determines the partial sum of a series...
15:29 RackN00b: Which part?
15:29 ozzloy: the second part
15:30 ozzloy: where you don't explicitly call the function you're in
15:30 RackN00b: Haha =- there's the rub - I didn't... I thought the third looked harder so I worked on that first.
15:31 ozzloy: do the second first
15:31 ozzloy: is my suggestion
15:31 RackN00b: Well, it's the same problem I;m having now...
15:31 ozzloy: the second is a smaller change from the first
15:31 RackN00b: ok
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16:11 RackN00b: (lambda (f) function)
16:12 RackN00b: That is equivalent to saying create an anonymous function that takes in a parameter f that happens to be some other function, correct?
16:17 Shvillr: Er, if I understand your question correctly, it doesn't need anything to be able to take a function as an argument. For example, (lambda (x) x) is an identity function that works on functions just fine. Taken literally, (lambda (f) function) returns whatever the "function" identifier is bound to.
16:29 freakazoid: one problem with the change to "Racket" is that it's now much harder to Google
16:29 freakazoid: even "racket scheme" frequently doesn't turn up Racket as a first hit
16:29 freakazoid: (when paired with something else obscure)
16:31 Shvillr: plt racket seems to work for now, although it's too restrictive.
16:35 freakazoid: Should have just renamed it to PLT Not-Really-Scheme
16:35 Shvillr: lol
16:36 RackN00b: I am having a hell of a time with this... so I have my function all nicely defined and it works with a recursive call - I was trying to basically let a lambda take in that function as a parameter f and then apply it to the rest of a list.... Doesn't work :(
16:39 RackN00b: Here's a paste of what I was trying to do:
16:39 RackN00b: http://pastebin.com/AQmwYMze
16:42 ozzloy: RackN00b, you're definine a function called "useless-nr" which has a parameter "lst"
16:43 Shvillr: RackN00b: I doubt it's of much help, but here's what I did: http://pastebin.com/SAQ9iRTv
16:43 ozzloy: and that is returning a function that takes a function as a parameter
16:43 RackN00b: Shviller -> nice
16:43 RackN00b: ozzloy.. I follow
16:43 ozzloy: that's why it produces (lambda (...)
16:44 RackN00b: So how can I reference an anonymous function?
16:44 asumu: freakazoid: "PLT Racket" brings up Racket as the first hit.
16:44 RackN00b: Is the only way via y combinator?
16:44 asumu: Actually, for me "Racket" does too, but that might be Google picking results for me specifically.
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16:45 ozzloy: RackN00b, y combinator is not the only way to do it
16:45 ozzloy: http://www.catonmat.net/blog/derivation-of-ycombinator/ this page breaks it down pretty well
16:46 RackN00b: thanks - I'll take a look.
16:47 ozzloy: RackN00b, you're pretty close, btw.  i'm not sure how to help without straight up telling you the answer
16:47 RackN00b: Hey no worries - while it's extremely frustrating, it's also a pretty enjoybale challenge:P
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16:49 ozzloy: good, glad to hear it
16:49 ozzloy: i won't spoil it for you
16:49 freakazoid: asumu: Right, the problem is searching for other things related to Racket where the word "PLT" may not appear on the same page
16:50 freakazoid: I suppose I could just add site:racket-lang.org most of the time
16:50 freakazoid: (there are frequently similar problems with Python, especially since many related packages are named monty-pythony things)
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17:27 RackN00b: On the verge of getting it! http://pastebin.com/pEXvK7kw
17:28 offby1: man, there's some code that cries out for refactoring
17:28 RackN00b: I am now calling f for the two recursive calls, which is fine, but (Rest numlist) isn't working! Boo urns.. Time for a lecture.
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18:45 crk: noelw, there?
18:45 crk: someone here good with rackunit
18:46 crk: i want to use a test conditionally by handling the exception raised with an if
18:46 crk: do something if the test fails, something else if it doesn't
18:48 crk: not particularly interested in the output shown :-|
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19:08 asumu: cky: maybe you can define your own check (e.g. define-simple-check) to do it?
19:08 asumu: Whoops
19:08 asumu: Meant to type crk there.
19:09 asumu: Actually.
19:09 asumu: Using test-begin makes the most sense, I think.
19:10 asumu: crk: (test-begin (check-true #t) (displayln "passed"))
19:11 asumu: while (test-begin (check-true #f) (displayln "passed")) won't print the string.
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20:01 crk: yes
20:02 crk: thanks asumu I'll try this
20:03 crk: I wrote this : (if (test-begin (check-true #f) #t) 'passed 'failed)
20:03 crk: it prints passed regardless of the boolean value inside check-true
20:04 crk: my bad
20:04 crk: this works
20:04 crk: (if (eq? #t (test-begin (check-true #f) #t)) 'passed 'failed)
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20:05 crk: thanks :)
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22:05 RackN00b: I've exhausted all of my abilities on this: can anyone help me understand why this gets stuck in a non-terminating recursive call? http://pastebin.com/8G3xTzzY
22:06 RackN00b: I used a y combinator and defined f as the function essentially starting at my first cond statement but I can't get it to recurse during my two elses in conds within the function... Any help is very much appreciated - I've bee nat this for hours now :D
22:09 RackN00b: I think my problem is either what f or x are bound to in the else statements - I'm thinking it's more like to be the x since the one in the previous statement is bound to something else, maybe my list isn't progressing towards a base case...?
22:16 RackN00b: :(
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22:46 RackN00b: HAHA SOLVED!
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