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01:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/blPnJQ
01:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Speed/readability improvements in contour, surface and isosurface renderers - Neil Toronto
01:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Little fixes and improvements - Neil Toronto
01:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Plots with intervals too small or too large for flonums (2D and 3D) - Neil Toronto
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01:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/3xaPFQ
01:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Better error message when plot can't determine sensible bounds - Neil Toronto
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03:41 Blkt: good morning everyone
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13:23 shofetim: anyone know of a source for HtDP in an ereader friendly format (PDF/Mobi etc)?
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14:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/Lr45Tw
14:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] abstract out separated identifiers - Jon Rafkind
14:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] actually check for separator for the separate ids class. parse constructor arguments with comma separated ids - Jon Rafkind
14:21 jonrafkind: (syntax x) is too brittle when you want to use it to reference an existing binding, I'd rather do (binding x 0) to mean the identifier x at phase 0
14:21 jonrafkind: I mean it would be equal to #'x but it would check that x was bound at phase 0
14:27 mithos28: jonrafkind: what about defines that haven't extended the environment yet, say that come latter in the module
14:39 jonrafkind: I think it still works out because definitions somehow get parsed before other code
14:40 jonrafkind: but anyway I'm thinking of the times when you require a module and want to use an identifier from that module
14:40 jonrafkind: bbl
14:42 mithos28: definitions only get parsed before the bodies of other definitions or arguments of #%app, not other macros, because those could expand to defines. But in your second case that would be nice.
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14:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mXRxRg
14:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] win32: enable live resize of frames - Matthew Flatt
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15:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Rfd9gg
15:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Refine types of `integer-bytes->integer' and `arithmetic-shift'. - Vincent St-Amour
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16:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QkQW3w
16:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] up the timeout for the module-lang-test.rkt - Robby Findler
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16:53 jonrafkind: heres my (binding ...) thing https://gist.github.com/1368500
16:53 jonrafkind: so now its (module-binding #'x 0) checks that x is bound at phase 0 and returns #'x
16:54 jonrafkind: and same for local-binding, it jjust checks if the variable is bound with 'lexical
16:55 stamourv: jonrafkind: `(= (length type) 7)'?
16:55 jonrafkind: check if the length of the list is 7
16:56 jonrafkind: The result is a list of seven items when id-stx has a module binding: (list source-mod source-id nominal-source-mod nominal-source-id source-phase import-phase nominal-export-phase).
16:56 stamourv: Ah, makes sense.
16:57 stamourv: Otherwise?
16:57 jonrafkind: input error, sentence fragment
16:57 stamourv: If there is no binding, what is returned?
16:58 jonrafkind: then its an error
16:58 jonrafkind: (raise-syntax-error ...)
16:58 stamourv: That I understand. What does `indetifier-binding' return?
16:58 jonrafkind: either 'lexical or #f
16:59 jonrafkind: oh will #f screw it up..
16:59 stamourv: Ok, so you don't need to check the length of the list. Sounds more future-proof.
16:59 stamourv: And wouldn't `'lexical' be fine too?
17:00 jonrafkind: you mean (not (eq? type 'lexical)) ?
17:00 stamourv: No, I mean, if the return value is `'lexical', the identifier should also be considered bound, no?
17:01 jonrafkind: there is a separate procedure for that, 'local-binding'
17:01 stamourv: Ah.
17:01 jonrafkind: if you do (module-binding x) and x is locally bound then it will fail, so thats good
17:02 stamourv: But if you're only trying to check if something is bound at all (your original goal, IIRC), wouldn't both be fine?
17:02 jonrafkind: that was my original goal yes, but now I think its better to be more explicit about local vs module
17:03 stamourv: Are we looking at the same code? You were talking about `(binding ...)', but I see a definition of `module-binding?'.
17:03 stamourv: Oh, ok.
17:03 jonrafkind: from 3 hours ago: onrafkind> (syntax x) is too brittle when you want to use it to reference an existing binding, I'd rather do (binding x 0) to mean the identifier x at phase 0
17:03 jonrafkind: <jonrafkind> I mean it would be equal to #'x but it would check that x was bound at phase 0
17:03 jonrafkind: 'binding thing' refers to that
17:04 stamourv: Yes, and considering that goal, wouldn't both module and lexical bindings be ok?
17:04 jonrafkind: that was my original goal yes, but now I think its better to be more explicit about local vs module
17:04 stamourv: Ok.
17:08 jonrafkind: I would go so far as to say that (syntax ...) should check that anything with a capital letter is bound by a pattern variable
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17:09 jonrafkind: I suppose I could do that easily enough
17:09 stamourv: Capitals for pattern variable is not a universal convention. I actually haven't seen it used that much.
17:09 jonrafkind: its not used at all which is why I feel that I can steal it
17:10 stamourv: And discriminating identifiers based on their text always makes me uneasy.
17:10 jonrafkind: well there is some truth to that, but typos in syntax land drive me up the walls
17:10 stamourv: Although syntax/parse is much more convenient because of that.
17:11 stamourv: Agreed.
17:11 jonrafkind: syntax/parse does nothing for templates
17:11 jonrafkind: but for literals, yes its nice
17:11 stamourv: No, but it relies on the internal structure of identifiers for pattern matching, which is what I was referring to.
17:11 jonrafkind: im not sure what that means
17:12 stamourv: Stuff like `x:identifier', which binds `x', and retricts it to being an identifier.
17:13 stamourv: On the one hand, I'm slightly uncomfortable with identifiers being inspected that way, but it's much more convenient than the filly-parenthesized version.
17:13 jonrafkind: oh really.. i love x:identifier
17:14 jonrafkind: I wouldn't mind if hygiene was broken more often
17:15 jonrafkind: I mean I don't care about being hygienic at all times
17:15 jonrafkind: it makes life unnecessarily hard
17:25 asumu: I've started trying to use capitals for pattern variables, but what bothers me is that it's ugly.
17:25 jonrafkind: so why do you do it
17:26 asumu: I'd almost rather use a symbol suffix/prefix.
17:26 jonrafkind: just to be clearer?
17:26 asumu: I think it's helpful when I remember, but it's just an experiment for now.
17:26 jonrafkind: yea maybe @foo would be good
17:26 jonrafkind: or $foo
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21:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/jPSrTg
21:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix places & executable interaction - Matthew Flatt
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21:25 mithos28: is the rewrite of honu usable yet?
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22:35 Student: Hello.
22:35 Student: Never mind.
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23:13 araujo: :)
23:19 araujo just found out about the statically typed support in Racket
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