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07:39 rapacity: how can I do a \usepackage{package} in scribble?
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09:09 Reox: Evening
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09:53 Reox: Evening
09:53 Reox: is there anyone around who can enlighten me on some issues?
09:54 bremner: Reox: can you be more specific?
09:54 Reox: I am learning more about depth first search in scheme
09:54 Reox: but i cant seems to go about doing it
09:55 Reox: dfs to my understand traverse form the start to it's child node n back.
09:55 Reox: but how do i go about telling scheme to go to the child nodes?
09:55 bremner: How is your graph represented?
09:55 Reox: using vectors
09:55 Reox: vectors that stores a list of it parent and child
09:56 bremner: your graph is directed?
09:57 Reox: yea
09:58 bremner: Reox: I would try to think about the problem in a recursive way. What are you supposed to return?
09:59 bremner: so "go to child nodes" is a sequence of recursive calls
09:59 bremner: non-scheme dfs is often implemented the same way
10:00 Reox: i am suppose to return 3 shortest path of nodes travel from 1 point to another point
10:00 Reox: the start point and the end points are my inputs
10:00 bremner: that is not really a job for DFS
10:00 Reox: then how should I go about solving this?
10:01 bremner: I think you first need to figure out the right algorithm. You didn't get any hints?
10:01 Reox: hmm no hints
10:02 bremner: well, breadth first search _might_ do the trick, but if the paths are required to be disjoint you need something fancier
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10:02 Reox: but will bfs be able to provide me with 3 shortest path?
10:03 Reox: i am really bad with both bfs and dfs. forgive me if i am illogical.
10:05 bremner: bfs will provide you with the tree of all short paths of length $k$ from the source.
10:05 bremner: I'm assuming this is homework, it sounds like you need to get clarification from the instructor.
10:06 Reox: yea, it homework. or rather labwork
10:07 Reox: my instructor just told us to try using the various languages to get 3 possible paths in a graph from a input-ed point to another.
10:07 Reox: so my friends are handling c#, another on prolog and I am trying out scheme
10:07 bremner: well, possible != shortest
10:07 Reox: oops. i meant shortest
10:08 Reox: putting that aside, is it possible for u to briefly explain to me how can BFS help me to achieve my required results?
10:10 bremner: well, run bfs, at the end you have all of the nodes at distance k-1 from start (where end is distance k). This lets you find different short paths
10:12 Reox: ohhh
10:13 Reox: but bgf starts from the root right?
10:13 Reox: bfs*
10:13 Reox: eh no. pardon me
10:13 Reox: that's dfs
10:14 bremner: by definition, whereever BFS starts is the root
10:15 Reox: hmm.. so in this case, it's refering to my ending point?
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10:15 Reox: and I will start from the top.. tranversing layer by layer downwards?
10:16 bremner: I'm not sure I understand the question.
10:17 Reox: hmm..
10:17 bremner: are you asking how to do BFS?
10:17 Reox: yes
10:18 bremner: pretty much any algorithms book/wikipedia will have a description.
10:19 Reox: ok
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10:19 Reox: shall go and read it up. =)
10:19 (nick) Jesus -> Guest68367
10:19 Guest68367: Hello there, I have a small question about the read-line procedure
10:19 Reox: Thanks so much for taking the time in explaining to me the stuffs. Hopefully I can handle it.
10:20 bremner: good luck, it sounds pretty tough for a programming languages assignment
10:20 bremner: maybe there is something about the graph that makes it easier
10:21 Guest68367: I want to know what type returns the procedure read-line. I know it does not return a string since it returns #f if you try to use string?
10:22 bremner: Guest68367: did you try searching in docs.racket-lang.org ?
10:22 Guest68367: yes but it says it returns a string
10:22 Guest68367: im pretty sure it does not though
10:23 bremner: well, what did you pass to string? the procedure or the return value?
10:23 bremner: rudybot: eval (string? string?)
10:23 rudybot: bremner: error: default-load-handler: cannot open input file: "/usr/local/racket/collects/scribble/main.rkt" (No such file or directory; errno=2)
10:23 Guest68367: the return value which is a text written in a file
10:24 Guest68367: Let me quote what I found on the help "Returns a string containing the next line of bytes from in."
10:24 bremner: here (string? (read-line)) returns #t
10:24 Guest68367: did you try that reading from a file?
10:25 Guest68367: it will return false
10:25 bremner: maybe pastebin a small example. (e.g. http://paste.lisp.org)
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10:27 Guest68367: let me check it out, thanks for the help guyys
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13:31 Shviller: Hello everyone. What do I use Racket instead of Common Lisp's #. ?
13:31 Shviller: *in Racket
13:32 offby1: what does #. do in Common Lisp?
13:32 Shviller: read-time evaluation
13:32 offby1: hmm
13:32 offby1: good question.
13:32 offby1: no idea.
13:32 Shviller: Here's an example of what I'm trying to do: http://pastebin.com/40WhRnPS
13:33 samth: Shviller: you could write a reader extension that did exactly #.
13:33 Shviller: Um, isn't there some less hardcore option?
13:33 samth: Shviller: pastebin seems to be down
13:33 samth: ah, back up
13:34 samth: Shviller: for that, you can use `local-expand'
13:35 samth: but i could perhaps give a more specific suggestion if i knew what the real program looked like
13:35 Shviller: Well, I'm trying to port the minimal UI the gears OpenGL demo has (5 buttons) to GUIML.
13:36 Shviller: And local-expand needs to be inserted into a_macro, right? Is there something I can do without touching GUIML's insides with my dirty, shaky hands?
13:38 samth: yes, you can't do anything without changing a_macro
13:38 Shviller: Ouchie
13:38 samth: you could write a very simple reader extension to do exactly your abstraction
13:39 Shviller: But that would still require changes in a_macro (well, guiml), wouldn't it? (just checking if I understand correctly)
13:39 samth: no, reader extensions would avoid changing guiml
13:39 Shviller: Aha!
13:39 Shviller: Okay then.
13:40 Shviller: Do you think I can find the stuff I need to know to implement the reader extension in the documentation?
13:41 samth: take a look at http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/reference/readtables.html?q=reader#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._make-readtable%29%29
13:41 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3bk3rvw
13:41 samth: specifically, the portion for 'dispatch-macro
13:42 Shviller: Got it. Thank you, guys. I'm afraid I'll be back after failing miserably. :)
13:47 samth: Shviller: https://gist.github.com/1326178
13:47 samth: that's #. implemented in racket
13:47 Shviller: Ooo. Thanks a ton!
13:54 samth: Shviller: now improved to show how to use it in a file
14:00 Shviller: Thanks a lot, samth, but I'm still failing at life. I tried to apply it to my example and I'm getting "reference to undefined identifier: m".
14:03 jonrafkind: are you trying to make a psuedo-macro?
14:03 Shviller: A what?
14:03 jonrafkind: you don't know what a macro is?
14:04 Shviller: I don't know what a pseudo-macro is supposed to be.
14:04 jonrafkind: something that acts similar to a macro
14:04 jonrafkind: im wondering if you are running into hygiene issues since common lisp ignores hygiene, afaik
14:04 Shviller: Not really.
14:05 Shviller: Not really running into hygiene issues, I mean. Well, not to my very limited knowledge, that is.
14:05 Shviller: Have you seen my paste?
14:07 jonrafkind: aha, so you if you are evaluating things at read-time then you don't have access to definitions
14:07 jonrafkind: because nothing is defined at read time
14:07 jonrafkind: anyway for your example you can use (m) to invoke the macro
14:07 jonrafkind: if you just wanted to use 'm' to expand to (abs -3) you can make it an identifier macro
14:08 Shviller: That's just because it's a toy example. It needs two parameters in the real code.
14:08 jonrafkind: so (m 2 3)
14:09 Shviller: Yup.
14:09 jonrafkind: so you're all set now?>
14:09 Shviller: Nope. :\
14:09 jonrafkind: ok so you want to write #.m 2 3 instead of (m 2 3)?
14:10 Shviller: Nono.
14:10 Shviller: Try (a_macro 1 (m))
14:10 Shviller: Is that what you suggested for my paste?
14:10 Shviller: Because it doesn't work.
14:10 jonrafkind: you want y to be substituted for abs and z for -3?
14:10 Shviller: Yes.
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14:11 jonrafkind: hm.. ive never seen that use case before
14:12 Shviller: Well, I'm using GUIML, and since I have several nearly identical components with lengthy declarations, I tried to make a macro that expands into those declarations.
14:13 Shviller: But since the main payload of guiml is the guiml macro, well, I need my macros to expand before guiml gets to their arguments.
14:13 jonrafkind: can you show the real code, theres probably a different solution to the problem other than what you have pasted so far
14:15 Shviller: http://pastebin.com/BJf81DDd gears-canvas% is copypasted from gears.rkt as-is, so it can be ignored.
14:17 jonrafkind: so what do you want to macroize
14:18 jonrafkind: oh the gl-begin stuff i guess
14:18 Shviller: The button! macro would do just what I want, but it doesn't work.
14:18 jonrafkind: oh ok
14:20 jonrafkind: btw most  people consider it bad form to put a closing ) on its own line
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14:20 Shviller: I know. It's just that 6 years of Ruby aren't going away anytime soon. :)
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14:23 jonrafkind: did you write guiml?
14:23 Shviller: No.
14:24 jonrafkind: what you are trying to do may not be possible really.. if guiml expects a literal button% syntax to appear then it won't know what to do with button!
14:24 jonrafkind: it would have to local-expand the expressions until it found button%
14:26 jonrafkind: yea it seems that guiml expects certain forms to appear, so you can't just insert a macro that will expand to that form and expect it to work
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14:27 jonrafkind: if you define button! using the reader extension then you should be able to use it later on
14:27 jonrafkind: like #.(define (button1 ...) (button% ...)) or something
14:33 Shviller: I take it there no way to make button!, I dunno, a meta-macro or a second-level macro, or somesuch? So that it is evaluated before guiml? I remember reading about meta-compile phase level, phase level 2.
14:43 rapacity: how can I use a latex package in scribble ?
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15:16 samth: rapacity: you want to pass a style to @title, probably
15:17 samth: rapacity: something like this:
15:17 samth: @title[#:style (make-style #f (list (make-tex-addition "foo.tex")))]
15:18 samth: or you can put the \usepackage in a preamble that's passed on the scribble command line
15:18 samth: Shviller: when you're `read'ing the file, there are no definitions yet, so you can't refer to them
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15:21 rapacity: thanks, it worked
15:23 samth: Shviller: you could put the defintion of the function you want to compute over syntax into another file
15:24 samth: and then do (eval '(require "myfile.rkt") ns) right before the other eval in read-eval.rkt
15:24 samth: the you'd have those defintions available
15:24 Shviller: Yup, I can, but this kinda makes the whole :make it more readable" point moot.
15:24 Shviller: I still haven't given up hope on finding a solution that doesn't require me to modify guiml. Not because I can't, I just want something general. Maybe produce a guiml-macronized macro that handles other macro calls in its arguments and then pushes the results off to the original guiml macro...
15:26 jonrafkind: you could write your own #lang language that has its own notion of meta macros and expand those first
15:27 jonrafkind: phase level 2 macros are macros that execute inside bodies of phase level 1 macros
15:27 samth: jonrafkind: that would be pretty tricky
15:27 jonrafkind: yea
15:27 jonrafkind: but what alternative does he have
15:28 Shviller: Well, I dunno, wrap guiml call in another macro call that tries to expand everything that isn't guiml? Can that work?
15:28 jonrafkind: its an interesting problem that I sometimes run into, when a macro expects some specific form but doesn't use local expand so i cant use my own macros where those forms would go
15:29 jonrafkind: Shviller, i guess you could local-expand all the sub-forms yourself and then re-create the guiml form again from the output
15:30 samth: Shviller: i just pushed a new version of that gist that shows how to fix your problem
15:31 Shviller: For the record: I'm not desperate about the whole thing, and you guys named a number of options I could take. So right now it's more about me absorbing knowledge of what one can and cannot do in Racket and how easily than me stubbornly insisting on doing things the way I first came up with and which doesn't work. :) So I'm doubly thankful for your help.
15:34 samth: Shviller: I think my latest version will actually do everything you need
15:38 Shviller: Uh-oh, looks like it overshot the mark a bit: " a_macro: use does not match pattern: (a_macro x (y z)) in: (a_macro 1 3)". I guess not just m got evaluated, but (abs -3) that it expands to was evaluated too.
15:46 samth: yeah, you need to produce syntax that does what you want
15:46 samth: so, something like (define (m) '(abs -3))
15:46 samth: note the '
15:47 Shviller: Aha!
15:49 samth: also, you just need to produce s-expressions, not actual syntax as in a macro, because this is all at read-time
15:49 Shviller: Yup.
15:51 Shviller: Worked fine, and it still looks very readable. :D Thank you so much!
15:53 samth: Shviller: happy to help
15:54 Shviller: samth, jonrafkind, thank you!
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19:41 (nick) samth -> samth_away
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20:22 clklein: I have a repo on the plt git server which I'd like to move to github. I've started by forking plt/racket on github and adding that repo as a remote in my existing one. Then I git fetched from that remote.
20:22 clklein: Am I on the right track? What do I do next?
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20:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/-1_c9g
20:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] data/order: added support for transparent structs, added tests - Ryan Culpepper
20:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] db: added support for postgresql arrays - Ryan Culpepper
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22:24 jeri: Evening
22:24 jeri: is there anyone around?
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22:34 offby1: nobody here but us zombie processes.
22:34 rudybot: And I, your obedient servant
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23:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/JBcLuA
23:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] delay the construction of the compatible-closure grammar (the 'cross' thing) - Robby Findler