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02:45 mithos28: is define-for-syntax legal in internal-definitions?
02:45 jonrafkind: yes
02:45 jonrafkind: well i think so
02:47 mithos28: ok because the documentation doesn't mention either way, and it is giving me an error
02:48 jonrafkind: are you using a fairly new version?
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02:48 jonrafkind: i mean matthew added the ability to define higher phase stuff recently
02:50 mithos28: yeah, i'm on 5.1.3.9, but it also broke with a different error on 5.1.3
02:50 mithos28: the difference in the error was just in the naming I think though
02:53 mithos28: I think it is working as designed currently there is nothing it could expand out into, since let-rec-syntaxes+values doesn't support syntax level definitons
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03:03 jonrafkind: i thoguht maybe if it worked at the top level it would work in internal context definitions too
03:03 jonrafkind: oh well
03:05 mithos28: I found a workaround with define-syntax and syntax-local-value
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09:10 crk: hi, is it possible to set languages in mzscheme?
09:11 crk uses scheme from within emacs, so that seems the logical way to proceed...
09:20 bremner: crk: I seem to recall that setting languages within the repl is dicy; maybe somebody can correct me. I use geiser, and put the #lang at the top of the file
09:21 bremner: If you're not already using geiser for racket-in-emacs, you might want to check that out.
09:22 crk: ok
09:22 crk: i'll check out geiser
09:22 crk: thanks :)
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11:56 wtetzner: is there a way to start the datalog repl from the command line?
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14:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/pt2dOg
14:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] minor doc updates - John Clements
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15:13 smmalis37: hello #racket! I could really use some help
15:14 bremner: smmalis37: hi, what specifically do you need help with?
15:14 smmalis37: DrRacket refuses to start all of a sudden, I'm not sure what caused it
15:14 bremner: on what OS?
15:14 smmalis37: the error message is that the "side by side configuration" of libjpeg-7.dll is incorrect
15:14 smmalis37: Win 7 x64
15:15 smmalis37: I tried downloading a fresh copy of libjpeg-7.dll from the racket downloads but it didn't change anything
15:15 bremner: ah, sorry, I have no idea about windows libraries. Maybe wait around a bit, or try the mailing list(s)
15:15 smmalis37: thing is it was working fine two days ago
15:15 smmalis37: and nothings changed
15:16 bremner: no windows updates?
15:16 smmalis37: a security update for .Net, but that shouldn't matter
15:16 bremner: well, you remember what Sherlock Holmes says...
15:17 smmalis37: fair enough
15:17 smmalis37: still frustrating, I kinda need to do my homework....
15:20 smmalis37: and i've fixed it!
15:20 smmalis37: sort of a bug in the racket installer
15:20 smmalis37: apparently libjpeg-7.dll requires the Visual C++ redistributable
15:20 smmalis37: a specific version of it tho
15:21 smmalis37: I had 5 installed already, but not the one it needed...
15:22 smmalis37: bremner, is there a public bugtracker I could file this on?
15:22 bremner: yes, especially now you have DrRacket running, you can use that ;)
15:22 smmalis37: touche
15:23 bremner: or, I think, bugs.racket-lang.org
15:23 (nick) samth_away -> samth
15:23 samth: smmalis37: it would be helpful for us if you use the "report a bug" feature in DrRacket
15:23 smmalis37: doing it now :P
15:24 samth: wtetzner: it doesn't seem to work at the moment, but you might submit a bug report
15:25 wtetzner: samth: ok, thanks
15:25 wtetzner: it should work when i do this, right? racket -l datalog -i
15:26 samth: wtetzner: it's better to load languages with -I instead of -l
15:26 wtetzner: ok
15:26 samth: but that doesn't work either for datalog
15:26 samth: it's something the datalog implementation needs to change to enable
15:30 smmalis37: samth, my bug report is in
15:31 samth: smmalis37: thanks!
15:31 smmalis37: always happy to help free software devs
15:34 mithos28: is there any reference for how syntax marks are supposed to work? I think I found a bug in the macro stepper but I don't have anything to describe the correct behavior.
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15:39 samth: mithos28: basically, first read Dybvig's paper "Syntactic Abstraction in Scheme"
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15:40 mithos28: does racket model still match that for the most part?
15:42 samth: mithos28: there's a draft paper with the racket model that ryan will send you if you ask him
15:42 samth: but if you read the dybvig paper, you'll have a pretty good idea
15:43 mithos28: I have read it before, when I tried to implement my own scheme expander
15:44 mithos28: currently the macro-stepper likes to sort marks, and then remove duplicates. Which does not match Dybvig's paper nor the racket implementation.
15:46 samth: yeah, that doesn't seem right at all
15:46 samth: they don't commute
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16:21 mithos28: Is there a way to attach a binding to a syntax object such that later it is possible to remove it?  I want to shadow some bindings, but also allow access to undo that shadowing.
16:22 samth: mithos28: your best bet is to try to understand syntax-local-get-shadower
16:22 samth: rudybot: doc syntax-local-get-shadower
16:22 rudybot: samth: your racket/init sandbox is ready
16:22 rudybot: samth: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stxtrans.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._syntax-local-get-shadower))
16:22 samth: (that's how `syntax-parameterize' is implemented)
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16:29 mithos28: ok, thanks I'll look at that
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16:33 mithos28: actually maybe syntax-parameterize will do enough, thanks for mentioning it
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16:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2olMww
16:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] clarify the role of the #:rest portion of the contract - Robby Findler
17:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/BLl73w
17:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add a test case that ensures that the default values of optional arguments - Robby Findler
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17:39 mithos28: are there any libraries which use unquote in an expression context? (instead of just matched by binding by a macro in a 'datum' context).
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17:53 jonrafkind: you mean libraries that build lists out of unquote?
17:53 jonrafkind: probably some html templating thing does
17:54 bremner: what about slideshow?
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17:57 mithos28: in quasiquote, unquote is matched by its binding in the 'datum'. I am looking for a library that uses unquote as a macro in its own right
17:59 samth: mithos28: i think unquote as a macro just errors
17:59 bremner: ok, I'm to ignorant to know the difference.
17:59 samth: or do you mean the name "unquote"
18:00 mithos28: I'm rebinding unquote to a macro which does 'an unqoting like thing' and trying to find out if other people have done similar things
18:03 samth: mithos28: usually, `unsyntax' is used for those things in Racket
18:03 samth: for example, the `code' macro in slideshow, and the `racket' macro in scribble
18:04 samth: but scsh's process notation uses unquote
18:05 mithos28: ah, I'm not particularly attached to unquote vs unsyntax so if that is more "Rackety" thing I'll switch
18:05 mithos28: I just want a nice reader shorthand
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18:08 jonrafkind: rofl, you could even still arbitrary reader extension things, just re-interpret what `syntax' or even `vector' means, (my-macro #(foobar))
18:08 jonrafkind: s/still/steal
18:09 jonrafkind: oh hm is #(1) not a reader extension? i mean it doesnt seem to expand into (vector 1)
18:09 jonrafkind: or convert or wahtever
18:09 mithos28: that would require being able to write reader extensions, currently I am aiming for a library not a language
18:10 mithos28: thus I cannot change the reader
18:13 jonrafkind: no i mean you can re-interpret what the reader will produce, like (foo #'(bar)) then just do (syntax-case (syntax) ...)
18:13 jonrafkind: i  thought thats what you were asking in the first place
18:13 jonrafkind: you wanted a macro that treated `unsyntax' like a literal so you could do something with it
18:14 jonrafkind: i mean `unquote'
18:15 mithos28: The problem is that most libraries I see using unquote are doing something like you describe, but I am not and am looking to see if someone has done something similar before
18:15 mithos28: the difference is that I don't have a macro to find the unquote and do something with it
18:16 mithos28: I bind the symbol 'unquote' to a macro which does the work
18:16 mithos28: this is what I am trying to convey with the difference between datum and expression context
18:17 jonrafkind: im sort of in a mid-afternoon daze. code would help a lot
18:18 mithos28: https://gist.github.com/1256730
18:19 mithos28: The idea is that the foo macro overwrites the binding of the first identifier with the second except when there is an unquote
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18:19 mithos28: and then reverts back to the old binding
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18:25 samth: mithos28: note that regular ` with , doesn't work in your macro
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18:26 mithos28: samth: I know that is one problem I'm dealing with
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18:27 samth: mithos28: i'd use unsyntax instead of unquote, and have a version like `RACKET'
18:27 samth: which uses `UNSYNTAX' as the escape
18:28 mithos28: i don't get what you mean by " have a version like `RACKET'"
18:28 mithos28: are you referring to scribble again?
18:29 mithos28: ah found it, I don't use scribble
18:32 mithos28: maybe I need to rethink this expression vs datum concept I have, seeing as how no one has done it the way I am trying to
18:52 samth: I made something: https://github.com/samth/gcstats :)
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18:55 jonrafkind pats samth_away on the head
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19:08 yoklov: Hey, just out of curiosity, what are the files that drracket seems to create that look like #filename.rkt#1#?
19:10 yoklov: aah nevermind, found it in the docs, sorry.
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20:03 wtetzner: is there a way to create a function that takes zero or more arguments?
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20:08 jonrafkind: rudybot (let () (define foo (lambda args (printf "got ~a args\n" (length args)))) (foo) (foo 1 2 3))
20:08 jonrafkind: rudybot: (let () (define foo (lambda args (printf "got ~a args\n" (length args)))) (foo) (foo 1 2 3))
20:08 rudybot: jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready
20:08 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; stdout: "got 0 args\ngot 3 args\n"
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20:11 wtetzner: jonrafkind: thanks
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20:40 wtetzner: if i make a struct callable using #:property prop:procedure, is there a way to put a contract on it?
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21:31 offby1: just call Guido
21:31 offby1 slaps thigh
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23:35 mithos28: does anyone know how to get helpful error messages when debugging macros?
23:36 mithos28: unsyntax: illegal outside of quasisyntax in: unsyntax
23:36 mithos28: with no line numbers is driving me insane
23:39 jonrafkind: roflcopter. welcome to my life
23:39 jonrafkind: use a) printf and b) the macro stepper
23:40 mithos28: for b) I have found that the macro stepper only works if my macro doesn't error out
23:41 jonrafkind: ah yes thats true
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23:45 offby1 advocates debugging with printf
23:45 offby1: it was good enough for my grandaddy
23:46 mithos28: i am perfectly fine with debugging with printf, if I can print meaningful things
23:46 mithos28: printing the symbol of an identifier is not very useful if I all my identifiers have the same symbol
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23:54 jonrafkind: i use a debug macro that prints the current line
23:54 jonrafkind: plt/collects/honu/core/private/debug.rkt
23:54 jonrafkind: its nice because it uses an environment variable to enable it
23:54 jonrafkind: so you can do HONU_DEBUG=1 racket foobar.rkt
23:54 jonrafkind: and just leave the debugging in your program
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23:56 mithos28: thanks, i might try that
23:56 mithos28: I'm now getting infinite looping