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07:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xzzxLw
07:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Use a `typed-racket' package to include new release notes. - Eli Barzilay
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07:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6JnAPA
07:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Synch German string constants with latest. - Mike Sperber
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09:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/McQ-Pg
09:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `build-struct-generation' to work with `racket/base' - Matthew Flatt
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10:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/K8F2lA
10:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] In German string constants, move a & menu accelerator marker - Mike Sperber
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12:05 ohwow: what's the proper way to generate an infinite list in Racket?
12:06 ohwow: #lang lazy?
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12:30 mithos28: ohwow: shared or make-reader-graph will let you generate cyclic lists
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12:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/bbG-pg
12:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] cocoa: fix menu when two layers of dialogs are dismissed - Matthew Flatt
12:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] cocoa: fix application about handler - Matthew Flatt
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13:35 neilv: http://www.hubbell-raco.com/history.aspx
13:39 neilv: i wonder whether it makes sense to add a "raco" command for mcfly
13:40 neilv: one of my concerns with mcfly is that you'll have multiple versions of it installed at once, since multiple packages can have dependencies on incompatible versions of mcfly
13:41 neilv: which seems to complicate having individual versions of mcfly provide os commands or raco commands
13:41 neilv: i guess the command part could be in a separate package
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14:13 neilv: ryan culpepper sure did put a lot of work into syntax-parse
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14:38 neilv: in syntax-parse, if i am trying to match a form that has a repeating subform to it, and that subform is kinda complicated, and i want to do translation on each subform using racket code (not just ellipses)... what's a good way to avoid matching the structure of each subform twice?
14:39 neilv: maybe something with "~do", and binding the output of that to a new pattern variable inside the ellipsis?
14:43 neilv: or (require syntax/parse/experimental/splicing)
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15:28 samth: neilv: use the experimental bit, give ryan feedback
15:30 samth: jeapostrophe: question from scrollback you might be able to answer
15:30 samth: <mithos28> Is there a data structure in core that represents an http response? (racket being the client, so web-server/http/response-structs doesn't work)
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15:33 jeapostrophe: nope
15:33 mithos28: the problem was that web-server/http/response-structs assume that I want to write the data out
15:33 mithos28: ok
15:33 jeapostrophe: pure and impure port just give a port that has or doesn't have headers
15:33 samth: mithos28: so, you've now volunteered to write one :)
15:33 mithos28: samth: ok
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15:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/cJrnrw
15:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] gtk: make list-box% min size non-zero for content - Matthew Flatt
15:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `regexp-match' docs - Matthew Flatt
15:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] clarify `define-struct/derived' in docs - Matthew Flatt
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15:59 neilv: i wonder how many people grep the collects tree for example uses of procedures and syntax
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16:01 neilv: i have a suspicion that j's irc client does something annoying with idle chatter
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16:05 neilv: looks like "~do" is not actually used in racket 5.1.2, and "~bind" is used briefly in TR, and not in an elipsis context
16:05 asumu: I've done this to see how classes are used.
16:06 neilv: it's a good practice
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16:07 neilv: drracket doesn't make exploring the racket source as easy as emacs does
16:07 neilv: except for the ability to jump to a definition if you have check syntax info active
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16:09 samth: neilv: if you use a recent drracket, you always have it active
16:09 neilv: recent being a nightly build, or is it in 5.1.3?
16:10 neilv: i thought it was nightly only
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16:16 samth: it's not in 5.1.3, no
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16:30 neilv: this error "syntax-parse: pattern keyword not allowed here in: ~once" could just mean you forgot the "..." after the form
16:39 neilv: the easy way, without getting into fancier features of syntax-parse, is to make the first pass parse dumb and match invalid syntax in the sub-forms. http://paste.org/pastebin/view/37945
16:39 samth: neilv: yes
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16:45 yoklov: so, let me get this straight, in the racket OO system, augmenting a method is similar to (the same as?) overriding a method and calling the superclass' method of the same name immediately?
16:50 samth: yoklov: no
16:50 samth: augmentable methods work differently from overrideable methods
16:50 yoklov: hm
16:50 samth: ie, instead of the most-specific method being called, and potentially delegating to superclass methods with `super'
16:51 samth: the least-specific method is called, and it potentially delegates to *sub*class methods with `inner'
16:51 yoklov: oh huh.
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16:55 neilv: there aren't secret abbreviations for quasisyntax/loc and syntax/loc, are there?
16:55 samth: neilv: nope
16:56 samth: i would support them, if i could think of a good one
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16:57 yoklov: so, aside from the racket reference, (which, actually, seems to have gotten somewhat better since the last time i tried to understand racket's OO) is there anything i can/should read to better understand the concepts behind this?
16:57 neilv: qstx/l looks cryptic
16:58 samth: yoklov: the guide section on OO is also good, as well as the Flatt et al 2006 paper title "Scheme with Classes Mixins and Traits"
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16:58 yoklov: alright, thanks
16:59 samth: yoklov: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/scheme/pubs/asplas06-fff.pdf
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16:59 yoklov: right, i've seen this before.
17:03 yoklov: just out of curiosity (not a criticism), since it seems to me that essentially the only time that racket/class et al are used is for the gui and graphics, why was a system based on Beta's OO (that is what it's based on, right?) used, as opposed to one that is more traditional, such as a prototype or `normal' class based (by which i mean one more similar to java/ruby/python etc) system?
17:03 jonrafkind: I think some of beta's features are used in drracket
17:04 jonrafkind: but racket's class system is a superset of java/ruby/python, afaik, so you can just use the features present in a java class system if you want
17:04 jonrafkind: of course just having things like `augment' makes life somewhat confusing, but if you just ignore it you can be happy
17:05 samth: yoklov: the system combines java-style and beta-style
17:05 jonrafkind: a long time ago I produced a simple macro that only supported some common java class features: http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=java-class.plt&owner=kazzmir
17:05 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3rug223
17:05 yoklov: yeah, and most of the stuff I've done is just normal OO style stuff if I must be writing object oriented code
17:05 samth: the paper "super & inner, together at last" describes the rationale
17:06 samth: http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/oopsla04-gff.pdf
17:07 yoklov: but still, I mean I write a good amount of racket and I'd like to be familiar with its extensions, it's just odd that the OO system seems to be one of the most complicated parts of the language, though that could just be due to unfamiliarity
17:08 jonrafkind shrugs
17:08 yoklov: OH
17:08 yoklov: i get it now
17:08 yoklov: huh.
17:08 jonrafkind: what, augment?
17:09 yoklov: yeah, a super class uses inner in a method at some point, and if the subclass wants to augment that method, its augmentation is used where the inner is uh… called in the superclass?
17:09 samth: yes
17:09 yoklov: yeah.  that's actually pretty cool.
17:09 jonrafkind: the exact opposite of super
17:10 yoklov: it is.
17:10 jonrafkind: i find i want it every once in a while when i program in c++/java
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17:14 yoklov: so a function like that you intend to have augmented by subclasses should be defined with pubment?
17:14 yoklov: *function that
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17:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/OK33fQ
17:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add `schemecommentfont' - Matthew Flatt
17:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add examples to regexp docs - Matthew Flatt
17:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix HtDP `local' to work better with macros that expand to `begin' - Matthew Flatt
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17:22 yoklov: yeah.
17:23 yoklov: anyway, thanks a ton, that helped so much.
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17:38 asumu: yoklov: Yep, and then there is overment for when you override a method and then open it up for augmentation. ;)
17:51 yoklov: (for 2d), are the opengl drawing methods significantly/any faster than the normal ones?
17:51 yoklov: i mean, does anybody know
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18:02 samth: stamourv: do you have a tree w/ the `make-tainted-identifier' work?
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19:25 neilv: when i search for "fold" in the manuals, the first page doesn't show "foldl" or "foldr". but it does show rnrs and srfi ones
19:38 samth: neilv: yeah, probably prioritizing the search to feature results from `racket' and `racket/base' would be a good idea
19:38 samth: also to prioritize results that *start* with the search string
19:39 neilv: yeah, and maybe including terminology keywords if it doesn't already
19:39 samth: submitting bug report
19:39 samth: (it does do that)
19:39 neilv: ranking functions are hard
19:39 samth: neilv: actually, can you submit the bug report?  my drracket is in middle of major surgery
19:40 neilv: damn. was hoping tohave irc do my work for me
19:40 neilv: ok
19:40 samth: neilv: probably this is a pretty easy change to make
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20:18 serban: q: how can i check if a list element is a function
20:20 serban: i have something like '(2 x map a b c d filter 3 etc)
20:20 neilv: the "procedure?" procedure will be helpful for figuring out whether a datum is a procedure/function/closure
20:22 serban: thanks
20:22 neilv: but in that list, "map" is a symbol, and going from a symbol to a variable binding of that symbol is not something you normally want to do in racket
20:22 serban: ah
20:22 neilv: if you put the actual procedure object in the list, then you could use "procedure?" on it
20:23 neilv: (list 2 'x map 'a 'b 'c 'd filter 3)
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20:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/sumvTg
20:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add tests for non-linearity in `match-let'. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
20:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix language info when running 'racket -I typed/racket'. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
20:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Split syntax-classes out into separate file to reduce requires. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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20:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/DT66bw
20:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Revert "Re-enable timing" - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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21:55 mithos28: has the packages idea brought up at Racketcon been made into an implementation yet or is it still being worked on?
22:11 serban: (count (lambda (K) (if (equal? 'a-b-1 K) #t)) '(f car L a-b-1 f acum cdr L)) = 8
22:11 serban: why the hell?
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22:17 rapacity: there is no else expression on that if
22:18 rapacity: rudybot: (count (lambda (K) (if (equal? 'a-b-1 K) #t #f)) '(f car L a-b-1 f acum cdr L))
22:18 rudybot: rapacity: your sandbox is ready
22:18 rudybot: rapacity: ; Value: 1
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22:26 serban: btw is there a list-equal? predefined function similar to the one i pasted above? (   (lambda (K) (if (equal? 'a-b-1 K) #t #f))      )
22:30 mithos28: serban: I'm not sure where you pasted it. What do you want list-equal? to do?
22:30 serban: [05:07:06] <serban> (count (lambda (K) (if (equal? 'a-b-1 K) #t)) '(f car L a-b-1 f acum cdr L)) = 8
22:30 serban: [05:07:10] <serban> why the hell?
22:30 jonrafkind: serban, do you mean member?
22:31 jonrafkind: you want to count the number of equal items in a list to some value?
22:31 serban: member, right:)
22:31 jonrafkind: well member will return the #t or #f depending on if the value is in the list
22:31 jonrafkind: it wont return the number of times it was in there
22:33 serban: i just want to count how many times element 'X appears in the list
22:33 serban: (count (lambda (K) (equal? N K) L)
22:33 jonrafkind: you could do.. (length (filter (lambda (x) (equal? x some-value)) some-list))
22:34 jonrafkind: or is count a real function?
22:34 mithos28: count is defined in racket/list
22:34 jonrafkind: oh
22:34 jonrafkind: luzl
22:34 jonrafkind: seems to work for me
22:34 jonrafkind: serban, so whats the issue?
22:35 mithos28: if you are asking if you can drop the lambda and have just (count-equal N L), I don't think it is there
22:35 serban: yea, something like that, got it now, thanks
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22:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/kaYWUQ
22:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Update props for typed-scheme -> typed-racket conversion. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
22:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix require analysis heuristics for TS -> TR. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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