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03:00 (part) eli: "*sigh*"
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03:00 eli: hkBst: ping
03:01 hkBst: eli: morning
03:01 eli: Good morning.
03:01 eli: Do you mind submitting your bug through drr or the web page?
03:01 eli: You can send the attachment later as a reply to the confirmation message.
03:02 eli: s/submitting/resubmitting/
03:05 hkBst: eli: how about I go back to using dev@racket for my bug reports?
03:06 eli: hkBst: I can't stop you, but using the bug system is better.  The thing is that it's not a mailing list, so if you send a direct email it ends up somewhere and I need to create a bug manually for you.
03:07 eli: This did happen in the past -- probably twice in the last ten years.
03:07 eli: (Just to say how popular doing it is.)
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03:08 hkBst: eli: I understand, that's why I proposed to use the development mailing list instead, which I have been doing until yesterday.
03:08 eli: Why not just use the bug system?
03:10 hkBst: eli: well, the website is clunky and the report form is buggy... :( Plus it seems I'm getting my bugs fixed faster just using the dev mailing list.
03:11 eli: hkBst: You realize that that's an extreme flame?
03:11 hkBst: eli: sorry, that's not how I meant it at all
03:12 eli: The website's clunkiness is news to me.
03:12 eli: (I wrote it.)
03:12 eli: If the report form is buggy it surely justifies a bug report.
03:12 eli: (And I don't know of some open bugs specific to it.)
03:13 hkBst: eli: I fired off some bug report using the form, noticed its buggyness and reported those as well again using the form, and those bugs have been lying there. Stil unfixed.
03:14 eli: Which number?
03:15 hkBst: look at 11988 and 11989
03:17 eli: hkBst: Neither of these would block submitting a bug.
03:19 hkBst: the website I called clunky, because you have to fill in your name, email, captcha :( I just noticed a login button, but either that's for the administrator (you) or the way to register is well hidden. It is hard to search for bugs you submitted (need to used advanced search and fill in originator), from the search page there is no way to get back to bug reporting, ....
03:22 hkBst: eli: sure, but it just make me dislike those ways, while using dev ml is quite a pleasant experience. I don't want to be a ``bad citizen'', but I don't want to have to overcome a mental barrier every time I notice a small bug to report it. Shooting off a mail is easy and effective, while the other methods are painful and ineffective. I'm sure you can understand that.
03:23 hkBst: again, not flaming at all
03:24 hkBst: nor disparaging your efforst in creating the bug report website
03:25 eli: hkBst: Dealing with gnatsweb (http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/...) is known to be clunky/painful/etc -- but that shouldn't concern you.
03:25 eli: Neither does the login thing, which is only for that.
03:25 eli: (This is all because it's gnatsweb, which is ancient, yet we didn't find anything better to switch to.)
03:25 eli: (And we *looked*.  A lot.)
03:26 eli: You just need the front page (http://bugs.racket-lang.org/) to submit a bug report.
03:26 eli: Nothing else.
03:26 hkBst: what makes it so special, or what are your special needs?
03:26 eli: The captchas are trivial, and it uses cookies to store your name/email/platform -- so you don't even have to reenter that.
03:27 eli: There are lots of little issues.  We currently consider switching to github issues, but two big problems that it has are: (a) no way to accept bugs from random people (=> requires a github login); (b) no support for attachments at all.
03:28 eli: There's a slightly less important (c) no proper email interface.
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03:30 eli: In any case, using the bug system is still preferable over dev emails, unless for something that you know is a 10-second fix.
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03:36 hkBst: eli: I keep track of the issues I report to dev ml in my email client, to make sure they don't get lost...
03:38 eli: hkBst: I do that in theory too.  In practice, my mailbox just reached 1400 messages (which I just spent 3 hours on, down from 1700), and I get probably around 300 emails/day, about half I read.
03:39 eli: I suspect that Matthew has much more, probably 1.5x or 2x.
03:39 eli: So a bug system can actually help.
03:51 hkBst: eli: if my actions create a burden for Matthew, who seems to be fixing (almost) all my bugs, I'm sure he would have said something long ago, but he is still free to do so.
03:54 hkBst: eli: anyway I don't want to burden you with creating bug reports for me, so I will not use the bug ml again in this way and I will resend my email to dev ml instead.
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06:08 neilv: if mcfly can't infer the names and type info for a  defproc, it provides very non-helpful default. http://i.imgur.com/9OQgp.png
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07:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/wXHIQQ
07:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Start on Typed Racket release notes. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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09:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/rE3vuA
09:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] remove doc for non-existent function - Matthew Flatt
09:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] document `scribble/pdf-render; - Matthew Flatt
09:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix mach-o updating - Matthew Flatt
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10:16 samth: neilv: i recommend 'undocumented-procedure'
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10:19 samth: eli: yes, the erlang ppl consider that a major selling point
10:20 samth: but my understanding is that places is designed to be similar to erlang in other respects
10:27 samth: eli: ian's pull req is now merged, btw
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10:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/U87Rtw
10:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust -X handling to make `raco exe' work on Unix - Matthew Flatt
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11:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/TkAS_Q
11:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust keybindings to free up <menukey>-r for "Run" and <menukey>-t for "New Tab" - Robby Findler
11:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust the close/close window/close tab menu items to be more like other apps on the various platforms - Robby Findler
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13:33 jonrafkind: whats the racket incantation to get a repl for a given #lang ?
13:34 jonrafkind: racket -I blah, maybe?
13:35 jonrafkind: seems to work
13:38 stamourv: jonrafkind: Yes, that's the correct incantation.
13:45 jonrafkind: is my lang supposed to call `current-prompt-read' to change how the repl works?
13:46 stamourv: You probably want to redefine `#%top-interaction'.
13:46 jonrafkind: yes but i need to redefine the reader as well
13:47 stamourv: Just setting the language's reader as usual doesn't work?
13:47 jonrafkind: doesnt seem to
13:47 stamourv: That's odd.
13:47 jonrafkind: the docs say the default current-read-interaction uses `read-syntax'
13:51 stamourv: TR has a custom reader, and it seems to work fine in the REPL.
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13:51 stamourv: rudybot: init typed/racket
13:51 rudybot: stamourv: your typed/racket sandbox is ready
13:52 jonrafkind: and all you do is have a #:reader in your lang/reader.rkt ?
13:52 stamourv: rudybot: #{3 : Integer}
13:52 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #(3 : Integer)
13:52 jonrafkind: or whatever it is,, #:read and #:read-syntax
13:52 stamourv: rudybot: #{3 :: Integer}
13:52 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #(3 :: Integer)
13:52 jonrafkind: i have #:read honu-read
13:52 jonrafkind: #:read-syntax honu-read-syntax
13:52 stamourv: Odd.
13:52 jonrafkind: racket -Iq honu, seems to be using the old reader
13:52 stamourv: jonrafkind: Yep, that's all we do.
13:52 jonrafkind: well let me make 100% sure..
13:53 jonrafkind: its definately not calling my read-syntax
13:53 stamourv: Wait, it seems like the reader extensions aren't actually working. It's just turning stuff into vectors. Nevermind.
13:54 jonrafkind: lulzzz
14:01 jonrafkind: matthew says theres some runtime configuration procedure a lang can override and setup the prompt-interaction thing there
14:05 samth: jonrafkind: see module->language-info
14:06 samth: stamourv: i don't think the sandbox changes the behavior of `read'
14:06 jonrafkind: so is TR supposed to have its own read-syntax?
14:06 samth: jonrafkind: yes, to support #{x : Integer} in binding position
14:06 stamourv: samth: I know, but I got the same issue on a regular REPL.
14:06 jonrafkind: ok ill look at your implementation
14:07 samth: stamourv: works for me in DrR
14:07 jonrafkind: typed/racket/lang/reader.rkt doesn't provide anything special for the repl in the info procedure
14:07 stamourv: -> (lambda (#{x : Integer}) (add1 x))
14:07 stamourv: ; readline-input:1:9: lambda: not an identifier at: #(x : Integer) in: (lambda
14:07 stamourv: ;   (#(x : Integer)) (add1 x)) [,bt for context]
14:08 stamourv: Turns it into a vector.
14:08 jonrafkind: seems this should work [(configure-runtime) `(#(htdp/bsl/runtime configure ,options))]
14:09 samth: jonrafkind: see typed-scheme/language-info
14:10 jonrafkind: does typed/racket somehow use typed-scheme?
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14:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/BqReSQ
14:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Guide text for places - Kevin Tew
14:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Error messages for using places with symbol module paths - Kevin Tew
14:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix dup errors, bignum deserialization, and port names across place channels - Kevin Tew
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14:19 jonrafkind: hm the repl isn't invoking get-info from my lang..
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14:47 samth: jonrafkind: i think the repl doesn't do it
14:47 jonrafkind: for shame
14:48 samth: eli: ping
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14:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ut_GZw
14:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix changes to command-line handle that broke the Windows build - Matthew Flatt
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16:03 eli: samth: ?
16:03 eli: (BTW, I didn't say "selling point" -- I said "feature".)
16:04 eli: (BTW², I know about the pull request.)
16:05 samth: eli: the ping was re jonrafkind's mail message
16:05 eli: The one that got answered?
16:05 samth: as to erlang, i think we agree on everything
16:05 samth: yes
16:08 jonrafkind: can xrepl be made to support the language-info stuff?
16:08 eli: jonrafkind: No, that's the wrong place for that.
16:08 jonrafkind: ok so its just a bug in the existing repl
16:10 eli: jonrafkind: I'm not sure if it's a bug or if it's just not-yet-implemented, but it's only in Matthew's code where you know what the -I flag is.
16:10 jonrafkind: ok
16:10 eli: (Actually, perhaps xrepl would need to deal with it too, since you can switch to different modules, but that should come later.)
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17:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/azGIjA
17:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix check for interactively defined module paths. - Kevin Tew
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18:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/3UUhRQ
18:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added a warning concerning cross-platform workings of teachpack - Matthias Felleisen
18:27 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] improved error messages when handlers fail check-with tests - Matthias Felleisen
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18:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/E8_YXw
18:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove vestigial require. - Vincent St-Amour
18:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Change the logging level for the optimizer logs. - Vincent St-Amour
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19:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix bug that inhibited certain menus from appearing. Also Rackety - Robby Findler
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22:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/J1WEXw
22:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added back the accidentally deleted port-count-lines! call - Robby Findler
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