00:07 neilv: that the immutable hash procedures have names so similar to the mutable ones seems error-prone
00:07 neilv: i know i've forgotten the "!" to "set" before
00:08 neilv: anyway, anyone know the performance characteristics of "hash-set" (immutable one)?
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00:16 jonrafkind: neilv, i think its amortized
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00:23 neilv: syntax-parse is one of my new friends
00:24 jonrafkind: mos def
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00:28 offby1: defun cmos
00:31 neilv: looks like mosfet to me
00:32 jonrafkind: is that the little sister of bobafet?
00:34 neilv: i just thought of a name for my javadoc-ish package for racket
00:35 (quit) jeapostrophe: Quit: jeapostrophe
00:35 neilv: because throughout the code you'll be saying "doc", like "doc:Procedure", "doc:Section", etc.
00:36 neilv: so it's called McFly
00:38 offby1 slaps neilv upside the haid
00:38 offby1: .oO(mosfet is probably what I was thinking of)
00:38 neilv: DrRacket, MzScheme, SrPersist, McFly
00:39 offby1: :)
00:39 neilv: and it's 'fly' which was hip slang in the '80s or '90s
00:39 neilv: and retro is in
00:39 neilv: plus there's the association to McLovin
00:40 neilv: this is marketing gold for the young adult racket hacker demographic
00:41 jonrafkind: hipsters >:E
00:42 offby1: is that foaming at the mouth?
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01:19 davidmitchell: I'm trying to experiment with Racket places, and they don't seem to be working on my machine. I'm using a Mac with Lion, and I've tried DrRacket 5.1.3 (both 32-bit and 64-bit variants). I've defined a method called "super-simple" in the definitions window that sets up a new place which sends back a single value (and waits for the value to be sent in the original place), but the method never returns.
01:19 davidmitchell: The method is defined as (define (super-simple)
01:19 davidmitchell: (define p
01:19 davidmitchell: (place ch
01:19 davidmitchell: (place-channel-put ch 5)))
01:19 davidmitchell: (place-channel-get p))
01:20 davidmitchell: Is there something obvious that I'm missing?
01:23 davidmitchell: I have verified that if I call place-channel, I can send data through the resulting endpoints
01:24 davidmitchell: The code I'm using was adapted from the example on the second page of http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/dls11-tsffd.pdf
01:26 jonrafkind: that code just seems to hang for me
01:26 jonrafkind: im on linux, 32-bit
01:28 jonrafkind: it seems places keeps reloading the current module
01:28 jonrafkind: some strange bug.. ill ask kevin for you tommorow
01:28 davidmitchell: thanks!
01:29 neilv: you can also post on the users@ email list. that way any answers are recorded for future generations
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04:43 neilv: i loves me some syntax-parse
04:44 noelw: hi neil
04:44 neilv: good morning
04:44 noelw: you're on eli-time, i see
04:45 noelw: brb
04:45 neilv: this week, yes
04:51 ohwow: Hello
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06:32 noelw: I think the problem with keyword args in Overeasy is that they don't compose
06:32 noelw: If you have a setup / teardown / and around keyword args, in what order are they applied
06:32 noelw: I.e. if I have setup and around, which runs first?
06:33 noelw: I prefer writing an expression
06:34 noelw: I think Overeasy, eli-tester, and how I would rewrite Racunit are very close
06:34 noelw: at least the core is
07:01 neilv: they should be similar. conceptually, it is not much more than an equality test :)
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08:23 neilv: mcfly is coming along. it's now parsing the doc markup forms out of the code file, and using various info from the "(doc:Package ...)" form to generate some of the scribble
08:24 neilv: and the doc markup forms are excluded from normal loading of the code file
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09:32 Odaym: I'm on Debian, I downloaded and installed Racket for Debian from racket-lang, but now I cannot run "drracket" from the shell, I get a "/usr/racket/bin/gracket: 1: Syntax error: "(" unexpected"
09:32 noelw: What version of Racket?
09:32 noelw: Just run racket
09:32 noelw: and it should say
09:32 Odaym: same
09:33 noelw: Did you download the source?
09:33 noelw: And build on your machine?
09:33 Odaym: .sh file
09:33 Odaym: http://download.racket-lang.org/racket-5-1-3-bin-x86_64-linux-debian-squeeze-sh.html
09:33 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3zpautg
09:34 noelw: Very odd. Not something I've seen.
09:34 noelw: You might try downloading the source and building it
09:34 noelw: It's straightforward to build
09:34 noelw: cd src; mkdir build; cd build; ../configure ; make ; make install
09:34 noelw: should work
09:35 noelw: It will install in place
09:36 Odaym: and what do I do with what I've already installed? any ideas?
09:38 noelw: I don't remember the details of the sh installer
09:38 noelw: IIRC you can install in place or in /usr/local
09:38 noelw: Did you install in place?
09:38 noelw: If so, you just delete the directory tree
09:39 Odaym: of course
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09:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/zP06TA
09:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Reduce duplicate code in place.c, fixes - Kevin Tew
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09:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2oL7ww
09:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust drracket's userspace initialization so that it does not set the - Robby Findler
09:43 (part) RacketCommitBot
09:45 Odaym: alright, le getting source
09:47 samth: neilv: complexity of `hash-set' is log(n), roughly
09:48 neilv: thanks. that's not bad
09:57 samth: neilv: it's a red-black tree
09:58 samth: where the keys are the result of `equal-hash-code' (or `eq-hash-code', ...)
10:19 Odaym: alright, noelw, compiled from source
10:19 noelw: cool. does it work?
10:19 Odaym: but now not racket nor drracket makes any sense on the command line
10:19 noelw: right, they're not in your path
10:19 Odaym: true
10:20 noelw: they are in the bin directory within the racket tree
10:20 Odaym: they are
10:20 Odaym: yes
10:20 Odaym: im seeing them
10:20 Odaym: but it's locked the bin, include and lib directories in that tree
10:20 Odaym: because I did "sudo make install"
10:20 noelw: locked?
10:20 samth: Odaym: you should report the original error as a bug
10:20 samth: http://bugs.racket-lang.org
10:21 Odaym: alright, as soon as I get this fixed
10:22 noelw: oh. you don't need the sudo for an in-place install
10:22 noelw: you can just chown everything back to you i suppose
10:29 noelw: Odaym, is it working for you now?
10:29 Odaym: yea
10:29 Odaym: just need to add the path
10:29 Odaym: there is no header in the .bashrc that says "change paths here"
10:30 Odaym: or anything that signifies where the line should go
10:30 Odaym: I know how primitive this sounds, but..yea
10:30 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
10:30 noelw: In your .bashrc?
10:30 noelw: Just add export PATH=/path/to/bin:$PATH
10:31 noelw: e.g.
10:31 noelw: export PATH=/usr/local/Cellar/python:$HOME/bin:$HOME/programming/plt/bin:$PATH:$HOME/programming/scala/bin
10:32 noelw: (from my .profile)
10:32 Odaym: rapacity already instructed me on how to do that, but I trust you more
10:34 noelw: heh. that's flattering
10:34 noelw: If you want to reload your .bash_rc
10:34 noelw: source ~/.bash_rc
10:34 noelw: is the command
10:34 Odaym: source compiles the file
10:34 Odaym: or..
10:34 Odaym: yea i know what source does
10:35 Odaym: there we go
10:37 noelw: great!
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10:38 samth: jeapostrophe: https://github.com/samth/raco-git
10:38 samth: it's like a package system, but not really :)
10:38 jeapostrophe: LUST
10:39 jeapostrophe: yes, "race pkg" will should URLs to download and git urls
10:40 Odaym: so, about that bug
10:40 Odaym: more like an elephant
10:41 samth: Odaym: i recommend reporting it via that url, and giving precise reproduction instructions
10:41 Odaym: yep
10:41 Odaym: that's what I'm doing now
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10:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2B4kQQ
10:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] remove underscore from cpointer key - Kevin Tew
10:45 (part) RacketCommitBot
10:45 Odaym: submitted
10:46 samth: Odaym: thanks!
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11:41 samth: eli: can you respond on the list re: tcp units?
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12:09 samth: jeapostrophe, blake_johnson: what are the prospects for fixing tests/racket/stress/fuzz.rkt ?
12:09 samth: also, should i assign you guys as responsible for that file too?
12:10 jeapostrophe: I have been intending to look at it since you first added it
12:10 jeapostrophe: you can make me formally responsible if you want
12:10 jeapostrophe: however, casey and matthew are better equipped to actually do it because it is a problem with the validator
12:10 samth: i'm fine w/ being on the responsible list, just wondering if you should be added too
12:10 jeapostrophe: we'd like to know more about that code which is why I want to fix it
12:11 samth: ok, i don't think casey knows about it so i'll tell him
12:11 samth: which reminds me that i was going to write a fuzzer for the reader
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12:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/HMTTmg
12:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Improve formatting of reference docs for reader abbreviations. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
12:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix typo. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
12:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Improve types for some date operations; fix typo. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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15:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/KMj9wg
15:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added `check-requires'. - Eli Barzilay
15:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] `scribble/tools' is Robby's. - Eli Barzilay
15:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Documentation typo. - Eli Barzilay
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15:15 samth: eli: i don't think that typo was actually a typo
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15:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/66NFWQ
15:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add Nonnegative-Integer as a synonym for Natural. - Vincent St-Amour
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16:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/yiWzQA
16:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Organize the errortrace tests. - Eli Barzilay
16:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Remove a bunch of no-longer-needed `compile-omit-paths', and move the - Eli Barzilay
16:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Some info.rkt cleanups. - Eli Barzilay
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16:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/1tjONw
16:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] With 4f83f7f, the hack around PR7104 is no longer needed. - Eli Barzilay
16:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Quick fix - Eli Barzilay
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16:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/a6KYIg
16:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Removed SrPersist. - Eli Barzilay
16:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Removed waterworld. - Eli Barzilay
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17:26 Odaym: I'm using "-1+" in DrRacket and it's producing a syntactical error
17:29 jonrafkind: what error?
17:29 Odaym: expand: unbound identifier in module in: -1+
17:29 jonrafkind: rudybot: (let ([-1+ 5]) (+ 1 -1+))
17:29 rudybot: jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready
17:29 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: 6
17:29 jonrafkind: what did you expect -1+ to mean?
17:29 jonrafkind: also thats not a syntax error
17:29 Odaym: decrementer
17:29 jonrafkind: whats a decrementer?
17:29 Odaym: like --x
17:29 Odaym: or x--
17:30 jonrafkind: why would you expect -1+ to mean that? ive never seen such a notation in my life
17:30 Odaym: in SICP
17:30 Odaym: lecture 1B, 20:30
17:30 jonrafkind: use (sub1 x)
17:31 jonrafkind: racket doesnt have unary operators like what you're describing
17:31 Odaym: how do I tell DrRacket that I am using Scheme?
17:31 Odaym: the header doesn't work when I do "#lang Scheme"
17:31 samth: Odaym: is the Language set to "Use the language declared in the source"?
17:31 jonrafkind: #lang scheme
17:32 Odaym: yes samth
17:32 samth: also, you should use #lang racket
17:32 Odaym: maybe it's been removed from scheme, this notation
17:32 jonrafkind: or maybe #lang r5rs
17:32 samth: what notation?
17:32 Odaym: -1+ to mean decrement by 1
17:33 samth: Odaym: to my knowledge, it's never been in any language implemented by Racket
17:33 Odaym: alright
17:34 jonrafkind: Odaym, can you write a full example of what you mean? is it like (-1+ 5) would become 4?
17:34 jonrafkind: or do you mean x-1+ ?
17:35 Odaym: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19390574/Screenshot-1B_%20Procedures%20and%20Processes_%20Substitution%20Model.png
17:35 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3brvm5w
17:35 Odaym: this is SICP
17:36 jonrafkind: so just use sub1 instead of -1+, or do (define -1+ sub1)
17:36 Odaym: so the notation no longer exists
17:36 Odaym: this is 1986, of course
17:36 Odaym: the video from which that screenshot was taken
17:37 jonrafkind: it never existed in racket
17:37 jonrafkind: but its trivial to add it if you want
17:37 Odaym: yes of course
17:43 spewn: Odaym: If you look at a recent copy of SICP, you'll see (inc (+ (dec a) b)) and (+ (dec a) (inc b)) in exercise 1.9. They are in reverse order from your screenshot.
17:44 Odaym: a recent copy of SICP?
17:44 spewn: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-11.html#%_thm_1.9
17:44 Odaym: where would I get that?
17:44 spewn: I believe that's the second edition.
17:44 Odaym: oh no I'm following the videos
17:44 Odaym: but yes the book will be helpful, thanks
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17:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/8upApw
17:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add the missing documentation for ,check-requires. - Eli Barzilay
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19:35 WarWeasle: Hello. Can anyone tell me where in the Racket source the GUI component "gui/base" exists? I found gui/base under collects but there doesn't seem to be much code there. I just want to peek 'under the hood'.
19:35 samth: WarWeasle: it's mostly in the 'mred' collection
19:36 WarWeasle: samth: ok, that's where I kept ending up but I thought I was wrong. Do you know why its under mred? (I thought mred was a gui builder)
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19:37 samth: WarWeasle: 'mred' is basically the old name of both the `racket/gui' library and the `gracket' executable
19:37 samth: (it wasn't ever a gui builder)
19:39 WarWeasle: Ahh. The builder is mred Designer. My mistake. Thank you!
19:41 samth: no problem
19:49 WarWeasle: Cool, they use Win32 for windows, cocoa (I assume) is MacOs, and GTK for everyone else.
19:50 samth: yup
19:51 samth: WarWeasle: you can read more here: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2010/12/racket-version-5.html
19:54 WarWeasle: samth: If you don't mind another question, what does racket use to select the correct macro?
19:54 samth: what do you mean?
19:54 samth: which macro?
19:54 WarWeasle: (for windows, mac, unix, etc)
19:54 samth: ah
19:54 samth: it uses the `system-type' procedure
19:54 samth: rudybot: doc system-type
19:54 rudybot: samth: your typed/racket sandbox is ready
19:54 rudybot: samth: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/runtime.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._system-type))
19:55 samth: WarWeasle: as above
19:55 WarWeasle: Both the rudybot and the command are neat.
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20:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/50TK1w
20:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust the fonts for the error message in the online check syntax - Robby Findler
20:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] lengthened the planet tests timeout - Robby Findler
20:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] make make-temporary-file use the source location for its template argument - Robby Findler
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22:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/xT3nQg
22:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Change default temporary format from "mztmp~a" to "rkttmp~a". - Eli Barzilay
22:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Some small improvements. - Eli Barzilay
22:12 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Finally there should be no temp file leftovers now. - Eli Barzilay
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22:22 offby1: .oO("the" rudybot?)
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23:55 SinDoc: Any idea how I can dynamically instantiate a bitmap% using eval?
23:55 SinDoc: https://gist.github.com/1180136
23:55 SinDoc: I get: cannot instantiate `racket/gui/base' a second time in the same process