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01:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/rg7Sob
01:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Recommend vim-racket plugin instead of .vimrc hacks - Asumu Takikawa
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08:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Test is sensitive to contract messages - Jay McCarthy
08:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] The FrTime docs need to be heavily revised and this won't happen shortly, so turning off these tests - Jay McCarthy
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09:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/nggXLf
09:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] updated expected (cons 1 2) error message - John Clements
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10:22 masm: The form (struct my-struct ()) binds the constructor procedure to my-struct and, at the same time, my-struct is also a transformer binding with info about the structure type.
10:23 masm: I think I need to use something like this to "communicate" between two macros. How is this accomplished?
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10:26 _p4bl0: masm: I've not finished to read it yet, but I believe you can find how this works in the paper "Macros that work together", this very example is given in the first or second part (and the real stuff are in the big third part, which I haven't read yet, so I'm not 100% sure what you want is there)
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10:27 _p4bl0: masm: http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/expmodel-3/ here it is
10:28 masm: Great. Thanks _p4bl0. I didn't know about this paper.
10:29 _p4bl0: yw
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11:38 stamourv: masm: What are you trying to do?
11:39 stamourv: asumu: I've been thinking about trying to write a "Racket for Clojure developers".
11:39 stamourv: Problem is, I don't know Clojure.
11:39 stamourv: But I agree that such a document would be great.
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12:03 gf3: I wonder how well racket would perform on limited resource/embedded devices
12:04 stamourv: What kind of device do you have in mind?
12:04 gf3: stamourv: mobile phones
12:05 gf3: stamourv: I am considering building some sort of mobile linux/RTOS, maybe having racket bindings for QT/Embedded
12:05 gf3: because there's no way I want to be coding C++ for everything
12:05 stamourv: Racket should work fine, at least resource-wise. But there may still be some effort required to port it.
12:05 stamourv: Mobile phones these days have a lot of memory.
12:06 gf3: yeah, 512mb+ would be the target
12:06 stamourv: That should be plenty.
12:07 stamourv: I've heard people run it on VMs with less than that.
12:07 gf3: it can ad up quickly though
12:07 gf3: with a launcher, and some apps running
12:07 stamourv: You'll probably want to cross-compile, though.
12:07 gf3: racket→c, or something?
12:12 stamourv: I just meant that you probably don't want to compile Racket directly on the phone.
12:12 (quit) dherman: Quit: dherman
12:12 stamourv: Running Racket with 512MB is fine, building it may not.
12:12 gf3: oh of course
12:13 gf3: the OS is going to have to be pieced together manually
12:13 gf3: so the device will likely just be imaged with a final version
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12:14 gf3: I'd just really like to avoid building a GUI/apps with C++
12:14 masm: Some pastebot around?
12:14 stamourv: gf3: Understandable.
12:14 stamourv: masm: lisppaste seems to be missing.
12:14 gf3: stamourv: thanks for the tips, btw
12:15 stamourv: gf3: No problem. Let us know if it works!
12:15 eli: stamourv: I have no idea why ythey dropped all of scribble; bremner certainly is aware of only a few files that remained in question, and talked about omitting only those files.
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12:15 stamourv: eli: What files are even problematic? Apart from the cls files, which we don't ship anymore, I can't think of anything.
12:16 eli: The cls/sty files.
12:16 eli: AFAIK, they're still in, unless Matthew removed them in the last few days.
12:16 masm: http://paste.lisp.org/+2NLS
12:17 masm: stamourv: That is what I am trying to do.
12:17 stamourv: eli: I thought that the ones that are left were fine.
12:17 stamourv: And they're not involved in building the docs for scribble anyway.
12:17 eli: There was only one left that should have been fine.
12:17 ozzloy: ohwow_, thanks!
12:18 eli: No, they're not, which is why it's weird that the whole thing is not included
12:18 ozzloy: offby1, thanks
12:19 stamourv: masm: Have a look at swindle, it implements a CLOS-like object system.
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12:34 jonrafkind: gf3, that racket script thing didn't set up autoindent correctly. i had to do 'set lisp' to get it back, do you experience a similar thing?
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12:37 ohwow_: yw ozzloy
12:37 ohwow_: what did i do, lol?
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13:45 gf3: jonrafkind: yes I have to set lisp as well
13:45 gf3: jonrafkind: I put it in an aucmd
13:46 jonrafkind: is the only benefit of vim-racket that it colors the syntax in a new way?
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13:47 gf3: I believe it adds some racket-only keywords as well
13:47 ohwow_: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/RainbowDelimiters likethis?
13:47 gf3: ohwow_: there is a vim plugin for that too
13:48 gf3: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1230
13:48 gf3: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1561
13:48 gf3: the second is more current
13:49 gf3: actually I think I ended up using this one: http://code.google.com/p/vim-scripts/wiki/RainbowParenthsisBundle
13:50 gf3: jonrafkind: btw: https://github.com/gf3/dotfiles/blob/11f800c00217e12d5b40f255024a693d35290923/.vimrc#L209-210
13:50 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3op9qvn
13:50 gf3: I just pushed my changes
13:51 stamourv: gf3: If you have suggestions for additions to the vi/Racket integration documentation, I'd be more than happy to include them.
13:51 jonrafkind: the real question is why doesn't vim-racket do set lisp
13:51 jonrafkind: i mean, does the author really not use set lisp?
13:51 gf3: jonrafkind: good question
13:52 stamourv: It's on github, right? Fork + pull request :D.
13:53 gf3: https://github.com/wlangstroth/vim-racket/issues/3
13:54 stamourv: Good.
13:54 stamourv: But patches > bug reports ;).
13:55 gf3: true, but I mean, it's a one-liner
13:55 gf3: he can literally copy it from the title of the issue
13:56 stamourv: I guess. I don't know anything about vimscript.
13:58 ohwow_: Is anyone currently developing some non-meta software with Racket? I would like to participate in such project, but I don't know where to start :(
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13:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/rsTUhN
13:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] re-enable test - Jon Rafkind
13:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] return the last expression if two atomic expressions occur in sequence. add a simple for loop macro - Jon Rafkind
13:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] handle empty files - Jon Rafkind
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14:00 stamourv: ohwow_: What do you mean non-meta?
14:00 jonrafkind: ohwow, want to write a game?
14:03 asumu: It'd be neat to have a window manager in Racket.
14:04 asumu: Would have the useful side effect of producing X11 bindings
14:04 asumu: (which I don't think exist?)
14:04 gf3: asumu: I might be working on something similar
14:04 gf3: asumu: writing QT/Embedded bindings for Racket
14:05 gf3: asumu: (which doesn't rely on the bloat that is X11)
14:05 gf3: asumu: from there I'd likely be writing a simple WM/launcher
14:05 stamourv: asumu: There's scwm, in Scheme, but I think it's been dead for a while.
14:06 stamourv: And there's gravicappa-vm:
14:06 stamourv: http://iris-comp.ru/~git/gravicappa-wm.git/
14:06 asumu: I thought it'd be nice to do it in Racket so you could have your config file be in #lang wm/config ;)
14:07 asumu: Though actually just a rktl might make more sense.
14:07 asumu: I also thought of a name: Reptile.
14:08 stamourv: With a name like that, it has to be tiling.
14:08 asumu: Exactly.
14:08 stamourv: I'd be very happy with a Racket-based stumpwm.
14:09 rapacity: someone do it
14:09 jonrafkind: i started a window manager in racket (and also have x11 bindings)
14:09 jonrafkind: but basically writing a window manager is a huge pain
14:09 jonrafkind: heres the x11 bindings at least http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=x11.plt&owner=kazzmir
14:10 gf3: jonrafkind: will it require X11?
14:11 jonrafkind: you mean.. does it require x11? it currently does
14:11 jonrafkind: i looked at making qt bindings but i couldn't figure it out
14:11 jonrafkind: anyway x11 makes things more portable..
14:12 asumu: Does it have more docs?
14:12 gf3: jonrafkind: I think all QT versions except the embedded one require X11 anyhow
14:12 gf3: there's no way I can support X11 on a mobile device
14:12 jonrafkind: well the ffi is basically a very simple wrapper around the C calls, so you should really look at the standard X documentation for how to use it
14:12 ohwow_: stamourv: like, not a compiler/language stuff/etc
14:12 asumu: Qt seems difficult due to the C++-ness. The Haskellers seemed to have trouble with that too.
14:13 asumu: gf3: is it working out for you?
14:13 jonrafkind: ;; http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/function-index.html
14:13 jonrafkind: ;; http://www.xfree86.org/current/manindex3.html
14:13 gf3: asumu: yeah, that's what I want to avoid
14:13 ohwow_: jonrafkind: hm, that sounds interesting, i know some linear algebra, but i don'tknow much about computer graphics besides basic opengl
14:13 jonrafkind: are the links I use to get x11 documentation
14:13 stamourv: ohwow_: I see.
14:13 gf3: asumu: I haven't started yet, still looking at options
14:13 ohwow_: stamourv: sorry for off-topic/personal question, but are you perhaps russian?
14:13 gf3: asumu: QT seems to be the most well-developed and best thought out solution though
14:14 gf3: plus they have great docs and lots of examples
14:14 jonrafkind: ohwow, well.. a game isn't necessarily dependant on complex linear algebra
14:14 stamourv: ohwow_: I am not.
14:14 gf3: which would make it easier for others to develop "apps" down the line
14:14 ohwow_: oh okay, sorry
14:14 asumu: gf3: I agree, I like QT a lot. I just don't want to have to use C++. :(
14:14 jonrafkind: especially if you are just doing 2d graphics
14:14 stamourv: ohwow_: That's the first time I got this one. What made you think that :).
14:14 stamourv: s/./?/1
14:14 gf3: asumu: haha, I'm in the exact same boat as you :)
14:15 jonrafkind: qt scares me, partly because ive tried the python qt bindings and they crash all the time. i dont know if this is because of python or the way the guy made the bindings or because qt is just hard to bind to
14:15 jonrafkind: but it doesn't inspire confidence..
14:16 asumu: Probably the last bit. Qt uses a custom (I think) preprocessor to do all the signal/slots stuff, which is their extension to C++.
14:16 asumu: I think that and various other things make it hard to bind to.
14:16 jonrafkind: well their custom processor compiles down to plain c++
14:17 asumu: Hmm, true.
14:17 ChibaPet: I thought it wasn't so much "custom" as something they're doing within the confines of the language.
14:17 jonrafkind: i think the issue is partly that the python bindings make assumptions about the implementation of qt and when you change versions those implementation details change and crash when the FFI is used
14:18 jonrafkind: so its probably that an FFI can't be made without making such assumptions about the implementation, but those details aren't documented
14:18 ChibaPet: I might be wrong. Wikipedia suggests that it's doing something "special" with its MOC.
14:19 jonrafkind: the output of qt goes to g++ so it can't be anything outside the confines of what g++ will accept
14:20 ChibaPet: Right, but their MOC is required. They're not doing something within the language that any C++ compiler can handle on the front end.
14:20 ohwow_: stamourv: you linked to some russian site
14:20 jonrafkind: oh yes, but you could theoretically write the stuff that MOC outputs by hand
14:20 ChibaPet: Yeah.
14:20 jonrafkind: which is a level above the FFI and thus irrelevant to implement a binding
14:22 stamourv: ohwow_: Oh, I just got that link from gravicappa, a #scheme denizen.
14:22 stamourv: (Who may very well be russian.)
14:22 ohwow_: oh yeah, the nickname sounds russian
14:23 jonrafkind: the v should be at the front :p
14:24 stamourv: jonrafkind: ?
14:24 jonrafkind: the v is your first name
14:25 ohwow_: jonrafkind: so what kind of game are you developing?
14:26 jonrafkind: well i thought i could rewrite one of my old games using this opengl based library in racket
14:26 jonrafkind: its a 2d shootem up
14:26 ozzloy: ohwow_, you told me the customary way to check if a list is empty
14:26 jonrafkind: http://raptorv2.sourceforge.net/
14:27 ohwow_: ah :)
14:28 ozzloy: what about vectors?  (empty '#()) returns #f
14:29 ohwow_: jonrafkind: i have written only a simple 2d opengl thingy https://gist.github.com/1134811 in racket
14:29 ozzloy: and i suck at the internets searches
14:31 ohwow_: hm, on http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/vectors.html i only see vector-length
14:31 ohwow_: rudybot: eval (= 0 (vector-length #()))
14:31 rudybot: ohwow_: your sandbox is ready
14:31 rudybot: ohwow_: ; Value: #t
14:31 ozzloy: (= 0 (vector-length v)) would work i guess
14:31 ozzloy: heh
14:31 ohwow_: yeah
14:31 ozzloy: but ... ok fine i'll do that
14:31 ohwow_: Altho it's quite strange, I thought `empty?' was polymorphic
14:31 ozzloy: i was hoping for a (vector-empty? v) or something
14:31 stamourv: jonrafkind: That is the case. But I didn't pick that username originally.
14:32 ozzloy: ohwow_, i think it is.  it determines whether things are the empty list
14:32 ozzloy: and an empty vector is not, i guess
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14:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 10 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/pjR9Ln
14:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] split off unstable/gui/pict module (no racket/gui dependency) - Ryan Culpepper
14:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] merged unstable/gui/blur into unstable/gui/pict - Ryan Culpepper
14:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] moved tag-pict, etc from unstable/gui/ppict to unstable/gui/pict - Ryan Culpepper
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14:32 ohwow_: makes sense
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15:06 gf3: dherman: ohai
15:06 dherman: ohai
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15:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/qeEwpI
15:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add missing sentence fragment - Robby Findler
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15:08 gf3: dherman: I hope you don't mind if I nudge you to apply one of the patches linked to your JSON package
15:09 dherman: gf3: yeah, sorry I've just fallen off the face of the earth
15:09 gf3: dherman: this one fixed up the negative number issue that most people seemed to be experiencing: http://planet.racket-lang.org/trac/ticket/317
15:09 dherman: yeah
15:09 gf3: dherman: oh no problem at all
15:09 dherman: I will put it towards the top of my to-do list
15:09 gf3: dherman: I didn't want to seem like I am complaining
15:09 dherman: can't get to it immediately
15:09 dherman: not at all
15:09 dherman: nudging is good
15:09 dherman: :)
15:09 gf3: dherman: I am VERY grateful for your package, it's amazing
15:09 dherman: you flatter
15:09 dherman: it's really a pretty simple package
15:10 dherman: you want something *amazing* you should check out samth's and my design of modules for JS ;-P
15:10 gf3: dherman: oh yeah, CommonJS or something new?
15:10 dherman: way better
15:10 dherman: built in to the language
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15:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] use internal `equal?'-based table in atomic mode - Matthew Flatt
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15:11 dherman: rather than a hack on top of eval
15:11 gf3: dherman: btw, I use your package heavily on twatlr.com
15:11 gf3: https://github.com/gf3/twatlr.com && https://github.com/gf3/twatlr
15:11 dherman: wow, you actually called it twatlr
15:11 dherman: that's pretty bold
15:12 gf3: dherman: are you referring to your Harmony modules proposal, because I *did* in fact see that!
15:12 dherman: yes
15:13 ohwow_: yeh json.plt is p good
15:13 gf3: dherman: yeah, I really like your proposal
15:14 dherman: nice, thx
15:15 gf3: dherman: re: twatlr, yeah it was supposed to just be a simple play on Twitter, not something super offensive
15:15 dherman: heh
15:16 dherman: anyway, I gotta run... I've put the negative number patch at the top of my to-do list
15:16 dherman: ttyl
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16:47 jonrafkind: asumu, *cough* include a link to the wiki page *cough*
16:52 asumu: oh good point
16:53 asumu: done
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16:57 asumu: jonrafkind: thanks
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17:23 rrrggg: how do you fully/deep copy a struct in racket?
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17:29 jonrafkind: rrrggg, http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/struct-copy.html?q=struct-copy#(form._((lib._racket/private/base..rkt)._struct-copy))
17:30 rapacity: doesn't that do a shallow copy ?
17:31 rrrggg: ya i tried that. not what i want
17:32 rrrggg: say i have a list in one of my struct fields. i want the list to be copied as well
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17:53 dyoo: I have a macro where I want to use a (begin-for-syntax ...) like thing, but in expression position.  Is there a form to do this?
17:59 dyoo: following: ok, found an answer with (let-syntax ...)
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18:17 ozzloy: how do i get the name of the current source code file?  i want to compare the 'run-file and current source code file to see if the code is being required or run
18:19 ozzloy: so far i have (if (= (find-system-path 'run-file) (???)) (ran) (required))
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18:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/o95Szz
18:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] return a void expression if there is no current expression waiting to be processed - Jon Rafkind
18:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] add quote and quasiquote - Jon Rafkind
18:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] add [] as a list form - Jon Rafkind
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18:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 8 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/qgMvLl
18:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] `define' + keyword lambda at top/module level => static checking - Matthew Flatt
18:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix syntax-taint problem in expander - Matthew Flatt
18:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add `prop:liberal-define-context' - Matthew Flatt
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19:35 jamessan: eli: is there any sort of automated post-build tests that can be done? it'd be nice to have the Debian builds run those to help verify the sanity of the package
19:35 _p4bl0: eli: ah so it seems the "bug" prevent the compilation of the scribble language doc has been found and narrowed down to this sigplanconf.cls file. Great! :-)
19:35 _p4bl0: s/prevent/preventing/
19:38 _p4bl0: jamessan: thanks for your email answers by the way :-)
19:38 jamessan: you're welcome :)
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20:27 ozzloy: ii
20:27 ozzloy: oops
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21:32 ozzloy: man this is driving me crazy.  how do you tell if a racket file was run directly versus something else like (enter! "file.rkt") in the repl?
21:33 ozzloy: closest i have so far is (if (equal? (find-system-path 'run-file) (????)) (ran directly) (required or something))
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