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01:34 em: jonrafkind
01:34 jonrafkind: tis I
01:38 em: jonrafkind: you are a cool guy.
01:38 jonrafkind: thanks
01:38 em: Always helps people with racket and doesn't afraid of anything :)
01:39 jonrafkind: also im 13 feet tall and eat nails for breakfast
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02:10 DT``: how bad is to use an `(apply apply ...)'?
02:13 jonrafkind: thats a strange use case
02:19 DT``: I find myself using it every time I define `append*'-style procedures.
02:52 eli: DT``: That's a common case for these things.
02:53 eli: For the implementation of `append*' etc I eventually went with (apply foo (apply list* xs)) because it was faster at the time (IIRC).
02:53 eli: But now it seems that the double-apply is a bit better.
02:57 eli: Yeah, it's slightly slower for 1..3 arguments, about the same at 4, and then starts to become faster.
02:57 eli: So easy to optimize away the 2,3 argument cases too.
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03:10 DT``: eli, oh, I'll just go the double-apply for the 4+ arguments case then.
03:10 DT``: and explicitly write the 2,3 cases.
03:11 eli: DT``: Which function is that for?
03:11 eli: (And that's what I meant, through I settled on special-casing upto 5 arguments, since with `string-append*' it was still leaning the other way.)
03:14 DT``: eli, `zipper-append*`, though I'm not sure if I can call it a zipper.
03:14 DT``: eli, speaking of strings, another question, is string-ref O(1)?
03:15 eli: `zipper-append*'?  My best guess about what it would do makes it not too useful...
03:16 eli: And yes, `string-ref' is constant, since strings are represented internally as UCS-32.
03:17 DT``: it's not really a zipper, it's more like a double linked list stored like a zipper (with the beginning reversed and a cursor).
03:18 DT``: I'm not planning to use it for something serious, though, I'm just experimenting.
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03:24 eli: DT``: That does sound odd, as in something that would be hard to explain.
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03:24 eli: (You caught me in a very micro-benchmark mood, btw, normally I don't touch those functions so often...)
03:42 DT``: eli, it probably is hard to explain without doing examples (or maybe it's just me).
03:43 DT``: basically, it's just storing a list `(1 2 3 4 5)' as `((3 2 1) 4 5)' so that you can insert/remove/get elements from that position in constant time.
03:44 DT``: and you can move around the cursor with a cdr/cons.
03:51 eli: DT``: In that case, a name like "zipper" is misleading IMO.
03:52 eli: So is a doubly-linked list -- since it isn't one.
03:56 DT``: eli, I called it ``zipper'' mostly because I've often seen them implemented as lists with the reversed head.
03:56 DT``: and it's not really a doubly-linked list, since (eq? (prev (next dl)) dl) does not hold true.
04:11 eli: DT``: Well, a little more than that -- with a doubly linked list it's expected to get the two heads fast...
04:12 eli: In any case, have a look here: http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=pfds.plt&owner=krhari
04:12 eli: It might have what you want.
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04:23 DT``: eli, thanks, but I'm doing this just as an exercise. I'd probably use vlists/random access lists for fast indexing and consing. (Which, btw, are all on planet. Nice!)
04:23 DT``: btw, I don't see how a doubly-linked list can access both ends fast, wouldn't it become circular?
04:24 eli: It can't be "really" circular if you want it to be functional.
04:24 eli: So it's done using promises instead.
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11:16 tonyg: eli: the easiest way to make it work properly is to use an absolute path. What's there in my patched version is no worse than the way racketcgc is found in git master, it just uses an absolute path to the root of the "build" directory rather than a relative one.
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11:18 tonyg: (and rather than each makefile making a decision about how to find racketcgc, they all share the decision made by the root makefile)
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12:08 eli: tonyg: In the best case, I don't see how "$CURDIR/blah" is different from "blah"
12:09 eli: In the worst case, it looks like it is very easy to break -- for example, what happens if you want to cd into a subdirectory and run `make' there?  (Reading the info file, it sounds like it'll be broken).
12:10 eli: On yet another level, it looks like something that will easily break make variants.  (Quick google: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/1998/01/29/0000.html)
12:10 eli: (Yes, 1998 was a while ago, but `make' is probably even more problematic than cc.)
12:11 tonyg: eli: is racket supporting non-GNU makes?
12:11 eli: I think that there was maybe one non-gmake thing that was needed, and (I think) that there was a way around it.
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12:11 eli: In any case, I'm not suggesting to remove the hack completely,
12:11 tonyg: eli: I can change it so that it works when running from subdirectories directly if you prefer.
12:12 eli: I'm just talking about changing it.
12:12 tonyg nods
12:12 tonyg: $CURDIR/blah is different from blah when CURDIR != .
12:12 tonyg: such as when running from within e.g. racket/gc2
12:13 eli: Instead of grabbing the (unreliable) value of $CURDIR, just use the equivalent of something like "${FOO-blah/blah}/bar" where "blah/blah/bar" is used currently.
12:13 eli: This way, wherever you build your cross binaries, you set your own $FOO, and the effect on everyone else is zero.
12:15 tonyg: that's a good suggestion
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15:44 John: Hi, I would like to know, if there is any websites that has Examples for website applications using racket ( I mean #lang web-server/insta)
15:46 John: anyone?
15:54 shofetim: There are some stuff in the documentation, and did you see this? cs.racket-lang.org/continue/index.html
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16:00 John: Thank you, I sow this one
16:01 John: is there any webpage, that has scripts, eg. Calculator, or MailSender
16:06 shofetim: John: not that I am aware of
16:07 (nick) ec|detached -> elliottcable
16:08 shofetim: John: you might find something here http://schemecookbook.org/
16:14 John: thank you shofetim, I will search
16:14 John: I'am trying to find an Mail Sender using racket
16:19 lisppaste: shofetim pasted "send mail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122640
16:19 shofetim: John: have a look at that, its the same as is on the front page of racket-lang.org
16:20 shofetim: It should get you started
16:24 stamourv: John: Also, there's sirmail, a mail client in Racket, in the Racket distribution.
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16:29 John: Thank you
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17:57 PLT_Notify: [racket] plt pushed 16 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/k8PHp0
17:57 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Allow omitting type annotation on for/fold:. - Vincent St-Amour
17:57 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Fix a typo in Eric Hanchrow's name. - Vincent St-Amour
17:57 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Allow omitting type annotation in most of the for: forms. - Vincent St-Amour
17:57 (part) PLT_Notify
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18:58 eli grumbles in stamourv's and offby1's general direction
18:58 samth: ?
18:59 eli: ¿
18:59 samth: good use of unicode
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18:59 eli: I finally hacked my Emacs.
18:59 eli: λ was too tempting.
18:59 eli: And TR with ∀ etc.
19:00 samth: and what does this have to do with offby1 and stamourv?
19:00 eli: The type section of my lecture notes is full of Γs, ⊢s, and τ₁.
19:01 eli: Absolutely nothing.
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19:01 eli: The grumble was stamourv's messing my clean rebase.
19:01 samth: ah, because of offby1's name
19:02 eli: Yes.
19:03 eli: I take that back.  Git just silently ignored it.
19:03 eli selbmurg in stamourv's and offby1's general direction
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19:04 PLT_Notify: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/iGdOOU
19:04 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Fix catching of initial exceptions to happen outside of the sandbox context,... - Eli Barzilay
19:04 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Revise this comment - Eli Barzilay
19:04 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Disable drdr runs on `meta/web'.... - Eli Barzilay
19:04 (part) PLT_Notify
19:05 shofetim: stamourv: sirmail ? where...
19:06 samth: https://github.com/plt/racket/tree/master/collects/sirmail
19:07 shofetim: samth: thanks! looks interesting
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19:39 offby1: .oO("selbmurg"?)
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19:43 samth: rudybot: (list->string (reverse (string->list "grumbles")))
19:43 rudybot: samth: ; Value: "selbmurg"
19:43 samth: offby1:
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19:50 PLT_Notify: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/iw4r9k
19:50 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Wrap expected type.  Closes PR 11980. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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19:52 samth: elliottcable: we still want you to respond to those questions
19:52 samth: please :)
19:53 offby1 is enlightened
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21:26 PLT_Notify: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jckpLr
21:26 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] fixed lw-test.rkt test suite - Robby Findler
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21:27 PLT_Notify: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jHEAE8
21:27 PLT_Notify: [racket/master] Fix `{user,group,other}-{read,execute}-bit' (in the docs too).... - Eli Barzilay
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21:45 eli: samth_away: colons, finally?
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21:50 racket: [racket] none pushed 5 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/lOf7d8
21:50 racket: [racket/master] Use `apply apply' which is slightly faster for most inputs than using... - Eli Barzilay
21:50 racket: [racket/master] Tweak things a little: make `simple-compose*' use `simple-compose' when... - Eli Barzilay
21:50 racket: [racket/master] Wrap expected type.  Closes PR 11980. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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22:07 eli: jonrafkind: gitlive.com
22:08 eli: (I don't see any use for it, but maybe you have an idea.)
22:09 jonrafkind: what does this do, show git pushes on a website?
22:09 eli: Yes.
22:09 eli: Enter plt/racket in the box, then click the boring looking gray button next to the bottom.
22:11 jonrafkind: it shows duplicate commits
22:12 jonrafkind: well for me this is useless since irc has the same functionality through the github bot, but maybe there could be a link on the community page about seeing live updates to git
22:12 eli: Maybe because I just enabled it or something.
22:12 eli: If you don't see a use, then I certainly don't.
22:13 eli: (I guess you could use twitter if you get a burning desire to sit and watch the commits go by.)
22:13 jonrafkind: are all the git commits tweeted?
22:14 eli: Yes.
22:14 eli: I think.
22:14 eli: Maybe.
22:14 eli: Maybe it truncates them as it did with the IRC notifications.
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22:50 offby1: it must; twitter limits to 140 characters, and a log message can surely be longer than that
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22:54 eli: offby1: It sends one short message (with a short url) per commit.
23:00 offby1: that's cheating
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23:03 racket: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jDRPIQ
23:03 racket: [racket/master] fix typo - Robby Findler
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23:45 racket: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/iUAIa9
23:45 racket: [racket/master] add a cache to avoid calling normalize-path so often when switching tabs... - Robby Findler
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