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13:57 nixfreak: Are there any lispers here , basically looking for a reason to try racket if If your a lisper
13:58 jonrafkind: hygienic macros
13:58 nixfreak: clean macros?
13:58 jonrafkind: macros that respect lexical scope by default
13:59 nixfreak: interesting
13:59 nixfreak: so you changed from lisp to racket ?
13:59 jonrafkind: no
13:59 jonrafkind: never used lisp in my life
14:01 nixfreak: hmm just curious if anyone has been programmig in lisp for awhile decided to learn racket
14:01 samth: nixfreak, there are lots of reasons -- racket has a large number of features not found in CL, including an extremely expressive macro system
14:02 jonrafkind: yea i just said that dawg
14:02 samth: and there are certainly people who have worked on Racket that used to be CL programmers
14:03 samth: jonrafkind, r6rs has hygenic macros, but there's a lot more to Racket's macro system than that (as you know)
14:03 nixfreak: ok cool , I just wanted to get an outside opinon not to particular with the whole vs things
14:04 samth: i don't think very many ex-CLers frequent this channel, though
14:04 jonrafkind: eli, can probably give you a list of reasons
14:04 (nick) ec|detached -> ec|irssi
14:04 (nick) ec|irssi -> ec|detached
14:04 samth: jonrafkind, did you just upgrade your version of xchat?
14:04 (nick) ec|detached -> ec|irssi
14:05 jonrafkind: just now? no
14:05 (nick) ec|irssi -> elliottcable
14:05 jonrafkind: what prompted that?
14:05 bremner_: there's a guy who hangs out in #scheme and touts CL ;)
14:05 jonrafkind: are you checking my ctcp response or something?
14:05 samth: your irc client adds a , after names, instead of a :
14:05 jonrafkind: oh I didnt always do that?
14:05 samth: which happened to me after i upgraded
14:05 jonrafkind: i did upgrade from ubuntu 9.10 to 11.04 about a month ago
14:06 samth: yeah, that would do it
14:06 jonrafkind: i think the prompt is a setting somewhere
14:06 bremner_: yes, I remember changing that in my xchat days
14:06 nixfreak: should try irssi
14:06 asumu: That's a strange upgrade. And it appears Debian doesn't do that yet (thankfully).
14:06 jonrafkind: irssi is the poorest interface ive ever experienced. bitchx is ok though
14:06 nixfreak: really in scheme and touts cl
14:07 jonrafkind: actually i copied my .xchatrc or whatever from my previous install so all settings should have carried over..
14:19 eli: nixfreak: Do you like `compile-when' headaches?
14:20 ohwow: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2601342
14:23 bremner_ has only the vaguest idea who zed shaw is and is ok with that.
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16:10 jonrafkind: something gets printed as (#s(stuff ...)), what is that? a struct?
16:11 samth: a prefab struct
16:11 jonrafkind: ok
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17:01 em: all this stuff like contracts and units, and things like that, is that the sort of stuff that people who are making languages are interested in, or is that stuff that people writing programs in Racket also should figure out?
17:01 bremner_: both, at least for contracts
17:05 stamourv: em: Contracts are really useful for programming in general. They can really help with debugging, for instance.
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17:12 samth: em, units are useful if you want to build recursive modules
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17:37 PLT_Notify: racket: master Eli Barzilay * 4276898 (2 files in 2 dirs): * Refactor bug-related url construction ... - http://bit.ly/lTO7eA
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18:23 em: samth: a module is like a library. Am I right? What is a recursive module?
18:27 samth: a recursive module is one that can refer to itself (or to some other module B that refers back to the original module A)
18:29 em: but why would any module have to refer to itself. If a module is a library that means it's like a collection of procedures. Once it has loaded, aren't those procedulres available already?
18:31 jonrafkind: the browser may need to know about the DOM and the DOM may need to know about the browser
18:31 jonrafkind: so if you have a cycle like that you need some form of recursive module system, which is what units give you
18:31 em: hm.
18:32 em: yeah i can see what you mean.
18:32 em: Not how units work but i can see something like that could happen.
18:32 em: Like you want your module to sort of be able to update itself depending on the program it is being used in?
18:32 jonrafkind: so with units you can say 'i expect foo and bar to exist when im instantiated' and when you instantiate it you provide it with foo and bar
18:32 jonrafkind: yea sort of
18:37 samth: think about defining two mutually recursive functions, say `even?' and `odd?'
18:37 samth: then imagine that they get really big and complicated, and you want to put them in separate modules
18:37 samth: that's when you need recursive modules
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19:15 PLT_Notify: racket: master Vincent St-Amour * 8d96133 (1 files in 1 dirs): Add with-logging-to-port to unstable. - http://bit.ly/lkZkqL
19:15 (part) PLT_Notify
19:17 stamourv: Demosthenes: There's now a friendlier interface to the logging system in git. Pull, and look in unstable/logging.
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21:00 jesuita: hello
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21:01 offby1: ^-:
21:02 offby1: rudybot: ,t8 en pt The bot can translate to Portuguese!
21:02 rudybot: *offby1: thanks for the pointer yesterday. Go a really nice little func for the pt in regexp now. compact and sweet.
21:02 offby1: rudybot: t8 en pt The bot can translate to Portuguese!
21:02 rudybot: *offby1: O bot pode traduzir para Português!
21:02 jesuita: ubuntu 11.10 will have racket 5.1.1
21:03 jesuita: how can I make racket 5.1.1 be in fedora?
21:03 offby1: jesuita: you can just download a binary installer
21:03 bremner_: that isn't really the same
21:04 offby1: true
21:04 bremner_: jesuita: you need to talk to a fedora packager. People outside the core racket team make the distro packages
21:04 jesuita: the binary installer is for old versions
21:04 jesuita: of fedora
21:04 offby1: but I think jesuita's options are: 1) download the installer from http://racket-lang.org/download/; 2) bribe someone at fedora to include 5.1.1
21:04 offby1: 1) seems easier
21:06 jesuita: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/plt-scheme
21:07 jesuita: Deprecated :(
21:07 jesuita: offby1: I have no money
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21:13 bremner_: jesuita: well, you could switch to debian ;)
21:13 offby1: hence my suspicion that 1 would be easier than 2
21:26 jesuita: bremner_: debian are not found of bleeding edge
21:28 bremner_: err. Sure it is, if you want that.
21:28 bremner_: but anyway, I don't care if you use debian or not. It just happens to have racket packages.
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